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Roller Dance and Session Skating Forum Discussions about roller dancing, jamskating, rexing, rink session skating, dance circle skating, and similar types of recreational indoor and outdoor skate dancing .

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Old September 26th, 2016, 02:54 AM   #1
Gee
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Default Back Cross

It seems that most people, me being one of them, perform the back cross (not a backward crossover) as a crossed tracing-crossed foot movement with no take-off. I know when I was practicing it, I was happy to place the crossed-foot parallel behind the other foot and with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot lined up with the front axle on the other boot without kicking that foot from under the body. I just gladly accepted that no takeoff was possible and I would have to rely on momentum to carry me for the next 2 beats.

Perhaps another way to do the back cross and get a takeoff is to position the crossed foot parallel behind the other foot with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot lined up with the rear axle of the other boot and then drag the other foot back against the crossed-foot to get a takeoff and line up the front axle on that boot a with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot. That movement of the foot would need to occur probably a quarter or a half a beat early so it can become the free foot right on the beat. I wonder if anyone has tried this. I may have to fall down quite often to try to get this alternate movement right.
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Old September 26th, 2016, 10:45 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Gee View Post
It seems that most people, me being one of them, perform the back cross (not a backward crossover) as a crossed tracing-crossed foot movement with no take-off. I know when I was practicing it, I was happy to place the crossed-foot parallel behind the other foot and with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot lined up with the front axle on the other boot without kicking that foot from under the body. I just gladly accepted that no takeoff was possible and I would have to rely on momentum to carry me for the next 2 beats.

Perhaps another way to do the back cross and get a takeoff is to position the crossed foot parallel behind the other foot with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot lined up with the rear axle of the other boot and then drag the other foot back against the crossed-foot to get a takeoff and line up the front axle on that boot a with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot. That movement of the foot would need to occur probably a quarter or a half a beat early so it can become the free foot right on the beat. I wonder if anyone has tried this. I may have to fall down quite often to try to get this alternate movement right.
I saw two gals doing this a couple weeks ago. I don't know if they ever did art. I've been trying to emulated it since then. I did not perceive them sliding the front foot into position after putting the crossed foot down. I think they placed the back foot right into position. It's a tough move and I can do back-cross-overs and cross-rolls well. Even when I cheat and try to slide into that position after putting the back foot down, I'm not quite there. Certainly can't do it on beat.

If you figure out any helps, let me know.
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Old September 26th, 2016, 12:10 PM   #3
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Smile I would like to get into this post...lol!

I don't fully understand the technical posts by Gee or Derrick, but I think I have performed these back crosses skating forward and backwards.

1) To me this movement is a "trick".

2) I consider the back crosses in rapid succession like machine gun fire.

a) They happen very rapidly and succinctly.

3) When the cross skate is put into position (cross in back), you are actually unweighting the skate you are standing on. When the cross in back happens the skate you are standing on is jumping/moving upwards.

This allow the cross in back skate to get planted up close to the adjacent leg/the leg you are standing on. The cross in back leg touches down on the toe of the skate and pushes upward, so now you can unweight that skate as you slide the next cross in back skate into position.

This very light and airy movement gives the illusion of conventional stroking but really you are just barely grazing the cross in back skate to the floor and not really stroking with it and definitely you don't have weight on the cross in back skate, just a touch down and landing and jumping upwards to unweight the standing skate for the next cross in back to be put into position, like the automatic loading of bullets in the chamber of a machine gun!


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Old September 26th, 2016, 11:54 PM   #4
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This very light and airy movement gives the illusion of conventional stroking but really you are just barely grazing the cross in back skate to the floor and not really stroking with it and definitely you don't have weight on the cross in back skate, just a touch down and landing and jumping upwards to unweight the standing skate for the next cross in back to be put into position, like the automatic loading of bullets in the chamber of a machine gun!
Are you describing what this girl does at 0:43 and 1:56?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpT6ETnltYk

I think releasing the weight on the standing skate too soon makes the back cross appear rushed. Contestant 29 does this at 0:55 and 1:12. I think the judges probably though contestant 29 did not have a strong back cross.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFPnOGIvOQw
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Old September 27th, 2016, 12:12 AM   #5
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Even when I cheat and try to slide into that position after putting the back foot down, I'm not quite there. Certainly can't do it on beat.
I have not done back crosses in over 20 years and am trying to do them. Right now, I feel the crossed foot may be tilted slightly such that the wheels on the outside edge will touch the floor before the wheel on the inside edge. Many dances call for an inside edge after the cross back.
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Old September 27th, 2016, 10:35 AM   #6
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Are you describing what this girl does at 0:43 and 1:56?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpT6ETnltYk

I think releasing the weight on the standing skate too soon makes the back cross appear rushed. Contestant 29 does this at 0:55 and 1:12. I think the judges probably though contestant 29 did not have a strong back cross.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFPnOGIvOQw
This is the element. Traveling backwards or forwards. I don't kick forwards after the cross. Perhaps I should. It's a bit easier arcing left. Using the LFO to start and replacing with a RIF. But I don't know if those w re the right edges for this. And one would have to change edge to do another in succession. The women I saw do it appeared to not be on an edge at all. But they were just gliding around not competing or practicing for competition.
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Old September 28th, 2016, 05:47 AM   #7
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Smile

Quote:
Are you describing what this girl does at 0:43 and 1:56?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpT6ETnltYk

Nope, that dance is the Denver Shuffle.


Quote:
I think releasing the weight on the standing skate too soon makes the back cross appear rushed. Contestant 29 does this at 0:55 and 1:12. I think the judges probably though contestant 29 did not have a strong back cross.

At approximately 1:12 that is not a cross in back. She never brought the left foot close and parallel to the right foot. The left foot has to come to at least the back axle of the right skate.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFPnOGIvOQw

Quote:
I have not done back crosses in over 20 years and am trying to do them. Right now, I feel the crossed foot may be tilted slightly such that the wheels on the outside edge will touch the floor before the wheel on the inside edge. Many dances call for an inside edge after the cross back.
The cross in front is one move, separate from the second move, which be the cross in back. I'm pretty sure the cross in front must be parallel to the tracing and the rear axle of the front skate should be at least equal to the front Axel of the rear skate.

Good luck,

Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old October 8th, 2016, 03:47 AM   #8
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I started practicing my back crosses on a figure circle...
...without a skate mate.

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Old October 9th, 2016, 12:54 PM   #9
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I started practicing my back crosses on a figure circle...
...without a skate mate.

At least the knee bend is over the skate and she is not hunched over the mate. She doesn't need it.
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Old November 19th, 2016, 09:34 PM   #10
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Eureka! After much practice, I finally got my crossing foot to stop turning away from the skating foot on XB-LIF, XB-RIF, XB-LIB and XB-RIB. These were the four edges that were giving me trouble. It required a very subtle adjustment in how I shifted weight. When the timing is lightly off, the foot position is also off.
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 06:08 AM   #11
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Smile They must of been drunk when they designed these dances...lol!

Hey Gee,

There are many new dances that have multiple crosses in them in sequence, one right after another…like in the Bounce Boogie Dance.

In the corner XB-RIF, followed by next step XB-LOF, followed by next step XB-RIF

Sincerely,
Larry O

P.S. Another dance …the Luna Blues has sequence of steps in the corner, one right after another….XF-ROF, XF-LOF, XF-RIF
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 06:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
Hey Gee,

There are many new dances that have multiple crosses in them in sequence, one right after another…like in the Bounce Boogie Dance.

In the corner XB-RIF, followed by next step XB-LOF, followed by next step XB-RIF

Sincerely,
Larry O

P.S. Another dance …the Luna Blues has sequence of steps in the corner, one right after another….XF-ROF, XF-LOF, XF-RIF
Rather than skating any particular dance, I have been practicing all combinations of the back crosses during open session. I do the same thing with some of the figures. Instead of skating them on the figure circle, I do all my combinations of turns while skating around the rink.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 08:43 PM   #13
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Hi Gee,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee View Post
It seems that most people, me being one of them, perform the back cross (not a backward crossover) as a crossed tracing-crossed foot movement with no take-off. I know when I was practicing it, I was happy to place the crossed-foot parallel behind the other foot and with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot lined up with the front axle on the other boot o - o .
I never ever got that far forward with the other foot. I asked at least one competition art skater and he said I did not have to go up all the way parallel. So I was happy going either half way up or as you wrote below.


Quote:
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o-o position the crossed foot parallel behind the other foot with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot lined up with the rear axle of the other boot and then drag the other foot back against the crossed-foot to get a takeoff and line up the front axle on that boot a with the toe of the boot on the crossed foot. That movement of the foot would need to occur probably a quarter or a half a beat early so it can become the free foot right on the beat. I wonder if anyone has tried this. I may have to fall down quite often to try to get this alternate movement right.
I know you list speed or push off in the above, yet I never had a problem with that, or the one gal I used to chase years ago who could do this well. It seems like you get a wobble doing this and it just pushes you forward fast naturally.

It did take MA/NY Skating Dave some time to get the rythmn going for this move. It to me is not a natural movement, yet still fun.

BTW I know an Art Skater whose partner insisted he came up absolutely parallel or would dismiss him. SO he got dismissed.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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