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Old November 12th, 2017, 06:34 PM   #1
fierocious1
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Default New skate/truck/plate project

NTS, DA45 from SA trucks(SG). 3/4" cushions on a bar stock plate. 195mm mount. If my theory is correct, if using cushions above and below the truck, the setup should perform identically to my moded SG DA45 I use now but with hope fully less weight. My kingpins are overlength anyway so no change there, truck weight will go down considerably. Trucks will get lightened some from milling the pockets and clearancing on the bottom of the trucks. My last plates were lighter than SG White magnums of the same size, without radiusing and polishing corners down. The goal is light weight and possibly titanium flips too. Going to take some time but will post step by step.

Last edited by fierocious1; November 25th, 2017 at 10:16 PM.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 12:06 AM   #2
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Subscribed. I always enjoy seeing the results of any machinist. My buddy has a 2D CNC machine and he makes aluminum molds for injecting soft plastic fishing lures.
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Old November 25th, 2017, 09:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by hoohoorjoo View Post
Subscribed. I always enjoy seeing the results of any machinist. My buddy has a 2D CNC machine and he makes aluminum molds for injecting soft plastic fishing lures.
I worked at Igloo Coolers in Brookshire TX, It's wild to see how fast stuff can be made in plastics. They did injection, blow mold and another type I can't think of right now. The mold is rotated in all axis during cool down for uniform thickness of the parts.
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Old November 25th, 2017, 10:10 PM   #4
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Default Update 112517

I worked on the trucks a little today. But need to clearance a bit more on the bottoms of the trucks for more room during lean. Counter sunk the KP holes for a little more angle. Opened up the cushion pockets on the top side of the trucks to accept standard 1" cushions. The goal is a lower CG of force at the truck. I am thinking that with the lower CG, a little more traction could be available. The pivot is fairly high in the SG DA 45s and with my cushion configuration, traction is very good, but I want to try to get just a little more....

Truck installed, gap to be shimmed at this point even with .750 tall cushions. I will be using over length KPs on one of my bar stock plates.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

The SG KPs are too short and are installed to just mock up the fit.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

Machined truck bottom, semi pockets. Going back to the mill later this week to hit it with a larger mill for more clearance without getting closer to the axle.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

Later if this all works out, I will do the same work to a set of magnesium SG SA trucks, in preparation for magnesium bar plates. Possibly flips as well.
Stay tuned...
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Old November 26th, 2017, 12:16 AM   #5
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Default clearanced the trucks

Just a little more. I need to get a larger end mill. About a 1 3/8" to widen the area instead of going in deeper. But it will work for now. Spacer in place to make the cushion a 1" upper. No cups on top, probably not use any on bottom either.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

BTW, thanks Doc for help with supplying the trucks.
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Old November 30th, 2017, 02:12 AM   #6
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Default weigh in

SG DA 45 trucks 105 grams
https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

vs

Modified SG SA 80 grams
https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/
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Old November 30th, 2017, 04:26 AM   #7
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I need to get a larger end mill. About a 1 3/8" to widen the area instead of going in deeper.
Careful, you're perilously close to getting into the axle as it is. Ask me how I know.

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SG DA 45 trucks 105 grams
vs
Modified SG SA 80 grams
Most of the difference is in the missing adjustable pivot. Are you going to retain the stock rubber pivot bushing?
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Old November 30th, 2017, 11:53 AM   #8
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Careful, you're perilously close to getting into the axle as it is. Ask me how I know.



Most of the difference is in the missing adjustable pivot. Are you going to retain the stock rubber pivot bushing?
Yes, going to use the bushings. I may look into the skateboard industry parts to see if there is a compatible replacement. Just touching the axle.... There is not a lot of metal to be removed before hitting it but it needs to go so I can use the cushions. Sounds like you tried this before... The major problem in trying this is the kp threads. Over length KPs, you have to make them or make new plates so you can have the meat to tap to 3/8" other than bsf. So far I have been using red Loctite on my KPs for over a year with no issues.

I could heli-coil a plate but it would only make it heavier and weaker, then install the long KPs. Or cut bsf threaded studs myself. But since I use the inline boots, its just logical to go ahead and change over to available off the shelf studs for KPs.

No jumping or bowls... lol
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Old November 30th, 2017, 04:19 PM   #9
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Sounds like you tried this before...
Different goal, but yes, I've attempted to face off the bottom of a Sure Grip SA truck with unpleasant results.

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The major problem in trying this is the kp threads. Over length KPs, you have to make them or make new plates so you can have the meat to tap to 3/8" other than bsf.
I have not studied this, but since you're using an Invader, there may be enough meat in the kingpin boss to open it up to 1/2" 20 tpi, which may provide some other options. The kingpin from the Powerdyne Revenge comes to mind. It tapers to 3/8" and is really long, and it's aluminum and will be lighter than a steel part. Whether it's long enough to do what you're after remains to be seen. It occurs to me that the lower cushion you show in the pic above may be a bit excessive and you may be able to trim it a bit.
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Old November 30th, 2017, 06:26 PM   #10
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Different goal, but yes, I've attempted to face off the bottom of a Sure Grip SA truck with unpleasant results.



I have not studied this, but since you're using an Invader, there may be enough meat in the kingpin boss to open it up to 1/2" 20 tpi, which may provide some other options. The kingpin from the Powerdyne Revenge comes to mind. It tapers to 3/8" and is really long, and it's aluminum and will be lighter than a steel part. Whether it's long enough to do what you're after remains to be seen. It occurs to me that the lower cushion you show in the pic above may be a bit excessive and you may be able to trim it a bit.
The invader was for mock up only. I don't think there is enough meat there if I tried to run a standard 3/8" in the same hole so these trucks are actually goin on another set of plates that I have started on. I want to use a long bottom cushion if possible. Seems like there is enough clearance to the floor to use them. I don't need much more length than what is shown on the invader, and the angles are the same. However the Harry stud is almost all the way out now.
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 02:27 AM   #11
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Default Long frames

Started these last year. Long frames for DA45 1" cushion sets. So extra shimming will be needed to use them for DA45 conversion. I wanted to build these for outdoor skating. But they will do for testing the trucks as well.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

Mocked up for fit.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

Still plenty of clearance between the floor and KP.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

Still have lightening holes and buffing to go. Everything is fitting as planned.
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 03:29 AM   #12
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Keep it going Lloyd.
I'm jealous. Haven't had any time for my project. Been working 60 hr weeks lately.
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 01:49 PM   #13
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Keep it going Lloyd.
I'm jealous. Haven't had any time for my project. Been working 60 hr weeks lately.
Guess I have gotten lazy.... lol. No 60s for me any more. I like my time off. Got several projects that are nearing completion. It all takes time and determination especially since it's all non CNC and no DRO... Everything needs a fixture. Wish I had another one of these small mills, they may be small but man are they handy on the small stuff.

This one is identical to one I picked up that was in pieces.. I spent $100 on parts to get it running again and make it complete. Got it for $200.
https://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-...ine-33686.html

Another one I picked up had a 3 phase motor on it. I took the motor and controls off and converted it to DC with an electronic variable speed drive.
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 05:20 PM   #14
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GThis one is identical to one I picked up that was in pieces.. I spent $100 on parts to get it running again and make it complete. Got it for $200.
Great deal!

You can do a lot on one of those. I have a RF-31 and it works well. A 3 phase and VFD are ready to go on it when I get the time...


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Old December 3rd, 2017, 06:33 PM   #15
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Great deal!

You can do a lot on one of those. I have a RF-31 and it works well. A 3 phase and VFD are ready to go on it when I get the time...


.
Yeah... all my gear is low tech. These table top mills pricing has gone crazy too! Vfds are nice. I have a bunch of gear motors in storage for other projects. Mostly 1hp.

Once you start machining, it gets adictive.
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Old December 5th, 2017, 01:29 AM   #16
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Default A thought

For any of you that do test out stuff. I am liking the 3/4" tall cushions. Less binding. If you are running an aluminum plate like an invader and want to try out the tall cushions, remove the KP lock nut that contacts the plate(lose weight), locktite in the harry stud( I don't know if the blue will hold as good as the red, for temporary.Red would be for permanent), wait a couple of days and install the new taller cushion on top. To get the full affect, you would have to go to longer studs to let you use longer cones below the trucks. I don't use the cups but use nylon washers on the bottom next to the nut.

Loctite has held my KPs on for a year now. They are grade 8 studs from McMaster Carr.

This is just if you want to try it out. The locking nut is app 1/4" thick, you may or may not have to shim.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 12:34 AM   #17
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Default DVW

do you have dimensions of the aluminum KPs you mentioned? I have never used any or even setiously thought of putting them into my plates. I only have 3/4" wide material. So they would only leave me 1/8" of material on each side of the KP. Don't have specs on any aluminum KPs to compare. The less steel I use the better, I know, so at some point I will have to consider Al KPs.
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Old December 6th, 2017, 01:10 AM   #18
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Default Update 12517

invaders vs my long frame. Not finished with the plate by no means. Lots of trimming to do and lightening holes to drill as well. But this is what they look like put beside the invaders, using SA(normally 1" tall barrel cushions IIRC).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

1 1/4" of cushion space to play with. Spacers are very light so not really a weight issue there. No compression on the cushions on the mock up. Alignment is good on the trucks. Pivot angle should be nearly identical to DA45 trucks, but lighter by 20 grams. Next set of plates will be weight minded for sure.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

I skated plastic plates a long time ago. I'm wondering if the plates flexed so bad because of the stiffer, high ramp up cushion configuration? Just thinking that maybe a set of plates with a lot softer cushion set up would be more stable. Delrin.... comes to mind...
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Old December 6th, 2017, 04:01 AM   #19
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Lloyd, you should check out the Roll Line cushions, if you haven't already. I'm sold on them. They have about 25%-30% more volume. But the trick is finding a truck that they will work with, or that can be modified.

-Austin
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Old December 6th, 2017, 06:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
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do you have dimensions of the aluminum KPs you mentioned?
Not handy. Doc likely does.
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