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Old December 16th, 2019, 12:53 PM   #1
polishedball
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Default Wheel help, plate change issue?

After swapping plates from probes to avengers, now skating on my toes gives me what I believe is wheel mush I slow down and am guessing the plate before bending absorbed some force and now it goes all to the wheels. If this sounds correct could you give me some suggestions for light weight strong hub wheel? I am 240#'s and am using Radar Halo's right now. Thanks
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Old December 16th, 2019, 04:36 PM   #2
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The wheels performance for rolling should be equivalent from plate to plate. The only thing that comes to mind which could reduce roll from a plate swap is if the axle was bending/deflecting under load, or the new axles are bent somehow, making the wheels roll on different paths and scrub speed.

If you dont want to get in line for Scott Corey wheels, I'd suggest the Rollerbones Nitro 97A
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Old December 16th, 2019, 05:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Mort View Post
The wheels performance for rolling should be equivalent from plate to plate. The only thing that comes to mind which could reduce roll from a plate swap is if the axle was bending/deflecting under load, or the new axles are bent somehow, making the wheels roll on different paths and scrub speed.

If you dont want to get in line for Scott Corey wheels, I'd suggest the Rollerbones Nitro 97A
Thanks, I was thinking the plastic wheel hub was going out of round, from theoretically more force on it since the plate doesn't flex as it did with the old nylon plate. When skating on all wheels mixed load all seems normal. This mushy slow down only occurs when i skate completely up on just my toes. And it is immediately felt when I lift both heels.

I do have some old lebada wheels that have aluminum hubs that I may try to test the theory, I just don't like how heavy they are compared to the current wheels. But that might be a non issue now, but when beginning the wheel weight seemed to play into some hip pain before I built up some muscle used in the hips. My wife skates on Nitro's so I could steal hers for a test as well. Thanks!
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Old December 16th, 2019, 05:46 PM   #4
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Just out of interest, are the front axles positioned in the same place on the boot as they were on the probes?
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Old December 16th, 2019, 06:14 PM   #5
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Just out of interest, are the front axles positioned in the same place on the boot as they were on the probes?
Withing a 1/16th of an inch, even though the avenger plate is a short forward plate (per there site, still new to the terminology) the drill pattern due to the heel it couldn't be anymore forward. So the rear wheels moved considerably but the front are about dead on with the scribe mark I made before the plate change.
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Old December 16th, 2019, 09:09 PM   #6
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Sounds like cushion issue. Maybe too hard.
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Old December 16th, 2019, 11:40 PM   #7
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Sounds like cushion issue. Maybe too hard.
Would this be too hard or too soft? The cushions I was skating on were 20+ year old aged rock hard yellows and that is what I am comparing too that were on the old plate.
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Old December 17th, 2019, 01:12 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
Thanks, I was thinking the plastic wheel hub was going out of round, from theoretically more force on it since the plate doesn't flex as it did with the old nylon plate. When skating on all wheels mixed load all seems normal. This mushy slow down only occurs when i skate completely up on just my toes. And it is immediately felt when I lift both heels.

I do have some old lebada wheels that have aluminum hubs that I may try to test the theory, I just don't like how heavy they are compared to the current wheels. But that might be a non issue now, but when beginning the wheel weight seemed to play into some hip pain before I built up some muscle used in the hips. My wife skates on Nitro's so I could steal hers for a test as well. Thanks!
It doesnt matter if the plate flexed 1 mm or 1 inch, the weight the wheels are carrying wont change unless you lose/gain weight, the strength of those wheels and bearings would remain the same.

A softer more compliant suspension as well as the change in kingpin angle which tends to be more sensitive to a skaters input may consume more energy as it's harder to keep it on the same line. Deviation from a straight, or intended path could lead to this feeling you have
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Old December 17th, 2019, 11:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polishedball View Post
After swapping plates from probes to avengers, now skating on my toes gives me what I believe is wheel mush I slow down and am guessing the plate before bending absorbed some force and now it goes all to the wheels. If this sounds correct could you give me some suggestions for light weight strong hub wheel? I am 240#'s and am using Radar Halo's right now. Thanks
I agree, your hubs are probably mush, I have some Radar Flat-outs and they're like flubber (it picks up print from newspapers and bounces forever), grab some metal hubbed wheels.
https://www.skatemob.com/roller-bone...o-speed-wheels
Expensive but the right tool for the job, google search your hardness, there must be a better price.

Yes, change your cushions, they start soft and come in all hardnesses, grab a bunch of different colors, start hard, gradually move to the softest.
https://www.skates.com/SURE-GRIP-URE...CH-p/ch535.htm

20$ bucks for a bearing puller.
https://www.rollerskatenation.com/bo...uller/1035603/

If weight is an issue, roll-line wheels in the 96-102 hardness have excellently hard hubs, and are very lite, yet, those turbos have very little hub and urethane.

Last edited by ursle; December 17th, 2019 at 11:44 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2019, 11:42 PM   #10
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Would this be too hard or too soft? The cushions I was skating on were 20+ year old aged rock hard yellows and that is what I am comparing too that were on the old plate.
The hard cushions may make it harder for you to skate like you are used to.
It may take you some time to adapt to these skates. You are probably used to the very hard cushions. The ones on your new rig may be too soft. However, softer cushions let you do more, have more freedom to move around.
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Old December 18th, 2019, 06:04 AM   #11
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I agree, your hubs are probably mush, I have some Radar Flat-outs and they're like flubber (it picks up print from newspapers and bounces forever), grab some metal hubbed wheels.
https://www.skatemob.com/roller-bone...o-speed-wheels
Expensive but the right tool for the job, google search your hardness, there must be a better price.
Actually, that's the MSRP of those wheels, and the retail of the wheels I use is about 180 to 190 USD.





Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
Yes, change your cushions, they start soft and come in all hardnesses, grab a bunch of different colors, start hard, gradually move to the softest.
https://www.skates.com/SURE-GRIP-URE...CH-p/ch535.htm
If your skates aren't wobbly you'll be fine. Unless you want more resistance to leaning the skate over. The softer you go the easier they edge, but the more mush feeling they will get while on your toes when applying lateral force.


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This bearing puller is trash, they break very easily. Skip it. Much better to just use a screw driver and weighted object to gently tap the bearings out. Had 2 of these and they both broke in very few uses.

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Originally Posted by ursle View Post
If weight is an issue, roll-line wheels in the 96-102 hardness have excellently hard hubs, and are very lite, yet, those turbos have very little hub and urethane.
Not sure what a roll*line wheel weighs fully loaded, but a Rollerbones Turbo weighs 128G with bearings. A Royal assassin weighs 91G with bearings. That 30 extra bucks for those wheels is worth it because they will outlast a RB Turbo 4x over, while providing superior roll , grip, and weight savings. Also I've yet to see a broken spoke from an assassin or the urethane shear off the hub like has happened from rollerbones turbo wheels. Neither wheel has a interlock ring


Heres a link to the RA's for refrence.

https://sk8ratz.com/bont-royal-assas...eels-set-of-4/
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Old December 18th, 2019, 11:54 PM   #12
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Stop.
The Royal Assins take a mini bearing, junk.

The bearing puller will work until it doesn't, then the op will see how to take out a bearing.
Those are Radar Flat-outs in the bearing press, junk.
But that press screwed to a 2x6 is great.
Hard cushions are the devil.
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Old December 19th, 2019, 01:04 AM   #13
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Thanks everyone. I do already own the bones cheapo puller. Eventually i'll get a full size one as I like to tinker and take care of skates have 6 in our family now skaiting, so a little maintance i am sure will be happening.
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Old December 19th, 2019, 01:40 AM   #14
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Thanks everyone. I do already own the bones cheapo puller. Eventually i'll get a full size one as I like to tinker and take care of skates have 6 in our family now skaiting, so a little maintance i am sure will be happening.
I use a full sized puller. Works great, had it for years. https://www.roller.riedellskates.com...e-Tools/102101

Finally bought extra pull pins.
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Old December 19th, 2019, 06:52 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=ursle;742815]Stop.
The Royal Assins take a mini bearing, junk.

OMG, something Mort and Ursle agree on
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Old December 19th, 2019, 08:06 AM   #16
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Stop.
The Royal Assins take a mini bearing, junk.

Not junk, just not robust. Lighter skaters can thrash on them for hundreds of hours without issues. I replace mine about once a year or so. The amount of play between axle OD and bearing ID makes an impact on lifespan. The larger the tolerances, the more play, the more play the more room for the wheel to rattle and beat the raceways to death.

Also the steel retainers fail before the balls and raceways.

Theres bigger guys than myself who have skated micros for years and not had a failure.



The bearing puller will work until it doesn't, then the op will see how to take out a bearing.
Those are Radar Flat-outs in the bearing press, junk.
But that press screwed to a 2x6 is great.
Hard cushions are the devil.
Flat outs are "ok" for outdoor, cheap, soft enough, roll fairly well. I'll take them over roll line heliums. Indoors they suck.

Definitely have to mount the bearing press on a structure to reinforce it. Otherwise it will get damaged.

Hard cushions, meh, very limited in viable uses.

[QUOTE=HeBeGB;742819]
Quote:
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Stop.
The Royal Assins take a mini bearing, junk.

OMG, something Mort and Ursle agree on
But I dont see them as junk, just at the limits of their load handling.
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Old December 20th, 2019, 12:04 PM   #17
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[QUOTE=HeBeGB;742819]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
Stop.
The Royal Assins take a mini bearing, junk.

OMG, something Mort and Ursle agree on
I don't know about that, Mort is specific, urkle hates everything..
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Old December 20th, 2019, 12:28 PM   #18
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[QUOTE=fierocious1;742841]
Quote:
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I don't know about that, Mort is specific, urkle hates everything..
Really, I'm rather specific about my dislikes.
Posers and racists.

You hit both boxes.
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Old March 7th, 2020, 09:01 PM   #19
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I havent read all the posts in this thread, but what I think is happening is a classic case of "blame an external variable." With a stiffer plate, your skates are more sensitive to your movements, and therefore you need to be even better balanced, and more precise.

I say focus on yourself before adding additional variables.
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