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Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

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Old March 21st, 2011, 02:35 PM   #21
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As a general rule of thumb I would agree, to teach to a high standard one has to suit the method to the pupil. As they are one of two leagues in the city, however, if a skater felt unhappy with something, they do have an alternative available.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 04:56 PM   #22
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very true, the only thing is though poeple become loyal to their team and teammates so are reluctant to move, hopefully the girls will gaze into the big world of roller derby and realise that 1 persons opinion is not the final word for the whole league, and that coaches can be questioned and those that won't listen to their skaters are not gonna take the league very far.
by the skaters for the skaters is a motto that should apply to every derby team
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Old March 21st, 2011, 08:45 PM   #23
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By the skaters, for the skaters, for the most part is a good motto.

However, there are exceptions where it doesn't work entirely. Remember that without non-skaters/volunteers, roller derby would just be a speed meet w/full body checking.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 01:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Darkjester View Post
By the skaters, for the skaters, for the most part is a good motto.

However, there are exceptions where it doesn't work entirely. Remember that without non-skaters/volunteers, roller derby would just be a speed meet w/full body checking.
true, but i was using the word skaters to mean all league members, our non skating members do so much for us that it would be near impossible to replace them
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 07:19 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Gorilla View Post
fat track derby.
Just gonna leave this here
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 07:25 PM   #26
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true, but i was using the word skaters to mean all league members, our non skating members do so much for us that it would be near impossible to replace them
You know Sin, I love that statement so much if I weren't already married I'd fly to the UK to propose!
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 07:42 PM   #27
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*blushes*
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 08:03 AM   #28
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I can do a hockey stop or a reverse toe stop on my skates, someone NTS can only do the former. Guess which stop is easier on my ankles and wheels?
I hockey stop a lot and don't find any undue strain on the Ankles unless something goes wrong. But I think that applies to both hockey stops and turning toe stops. I don't find wheel wear that much of a problem. Yes of course wheels wear down more quickly when you hockey stop, but I find I still get an exceptable usage out of my wheels.

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I believe that skaters who choose to use toe stops should be taught how to use them correctly from the start and encouraged to use them as a tool not a crutch.
I think this hits the nail on the head. I don't think people are taught to use them correctly and bad habits follow - such as dragging a toe stop.
Perhaps one way to correct this are have some toe stop free training sessions until the skaters get comfortable without. But the skaters are always free to put them back in afterwards
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 08:36 AM   #29
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The strain on my ankles comes from having completely feckered ankle joints.
Perhaps some NTS training sessions would be of benefit to some but I think personally that learning how to use them while still attached is more beneficial. You can't learn how to use something if it's not there.
Interestingly, we played a team on the weekend that had some amazing skaters but no real grasp of tactics or gameplay. Not their fault - they are one of the few derby teams in their country and it was the first time most of their players had played against anyone other than themselves. We won by 250 points . There was one skater in particular that looked like she had been born on skates. Skill wise she was the best out there and she was on NTS plates. She must have been a former speed skater. Our Jammers were faster off the line every time toe running compared to her duck start. She was a beautiful skater to watch but I didn't see one instance where her NTS plates put her at an advantage over anyone else. She still got knocked on her butt.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 09:16 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamanda View Post
The strain on my ankles comes from having completely feckered ankle joints.
Sorry to hear about the ankles


Quote:
Originally Posted by Salamanda View Post
Perhaps some NTS training sessions would be of benefit to some but I think personally that learning how to use them while still attached is more beneficial. You can't learn how to use something if it's not there.
May I ask how you would teach the correct use of toe stops and how would you stop the skaters using them as a crutch?
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 12:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
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... Interestingly, we played a team on the weekend that had some amazing skaters but no real grasp of tactics or gameplay. Not their fault - they are one of the few derby teams in their country and it was the first time most of their players had played against anyone other than themselves. We won by 250 points . There was one skater in particular that looked like she had been born on skates. Skill wise she was the best out there and she was on NTS plates. She must have been a former speed skater. Our Jammers were faster off the line every time toe running compared to her duck start. She was a beautiful skater to watch but I didn't see one instance where her NTS plates put her at an advantage over anyone else. She still got knocked on her butt.
Interesting (also, 250 point differential = just a little bit of overkill, lol)

If my wheels are too sticky for the floor I find my half-assed power-slide stops strain my ankles whereas with a bit of slip I can do them all day.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 12:44 PM   #32
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If my wheels are too sticky for the floor I find my half-assed power-slide stops strain my ankles whereas with a bit of slip I can do them all day.
Good point. I agree if the floor is to sticky then that can be a strain on ankles where hockey stops and power slides are concerned.

I generally only do power slides after I'm happy that the floor is not too sticky.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 02:34 PM   #33
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I'm not going to get into the debate about toe stops once again but I will say this. Every derby girl I see on crutches I and the coach of the league I ref for ask them, stops or plugs?

They all have said stops.. I think the evidence speaks for itself.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 02:42 PM   #34
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I'm not going to get into the debate about toe stops once again but I will say this. Every derby girl I see on crutches I and the coach of the league I ref for ask them, stops or plugs?

They all have said stops.. I think the evidence speaks for itself.
No, that is not evidence that speaks for itself. If the majority of derby skaters use toe stops (which I don't know for certain, but my experience says they do), then of course the majority of injured skaters will be skaters that use toe stops REGARDLESS of whether the injury was toe stop related or not.

By using your same logic I could say "I ask every regional championship team stops or plugs and 90% of them say stops... The evidence speaks for itself!" That statement is just as much a logical fallacy as yours.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 02:44 PM   #35
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not really evidence in my opinion. there is a higher percentage of players with stops. hence the chance of an injured player with stops is as well higher. Without accurate statistical evidence, you dont have evidence, but an opinion. Not to mention I have seen enough injuries that weren't a result of them having stops, but an unfortunate run up of events.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 03:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsfaze View Post
I'm not going to get into the debate about toe stops once again but I will say this. Every derby girl I see on crutches I and the coach of the league I ref for ask them, stops or plugs?

They all have said stops.. I think the evidence speaks for itself.
and the winner of the most flawed argument goes to
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 04:04 PM   #37
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99.9% of all RTAs involve someone wearing shoes. I think the evidence speaks for itself - wake up people, go barefoot!
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 04:18 PM   #38
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"Everytime I see a derby girl on crutches I ask her Short Forward DA45 or skateboard plate?"

See where I'm going here?

;-)
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 05:29 PM   #39
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hmmm, maybe my wheels are too sticky and that's why I'm incapable of hockey stopping....

hijacking this moot topic for a sec: are wheels with a 91 hardness on polished concrete too sticky to do hockey stops well? I'm having trouble swinging my foot around, i usually end up doing a beautiful spin type deal and strain something in my leg every time. I get lots of laughs though :P

ok, back to the topic- toe stops are common. they do not cause injury without other things factoring in. it's a personal opinion type deal.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 05:31 PM   #40
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also, Mr. Kill Joy, if it's true that Deland's coach doesnt let them use toe stops, I think that's ridiculous. How can your coach be so close minded when 'evidence' is pointing to toe stops being beneficial for derby? This isn't speed or jam skating.
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