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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old July 17th, 2012, 02:59 AM   #1
okie
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Question " something is strange"??????????????????

And the answer is??? Your opinions or just the facts??

The question: I have Been testing latest versions of the Atom's Low boys,95A.

On a DA 45,vs DA 10 degrees. Both 6.5 c/l to c/ axles on 10 boot. 7mm ceramics.

On the derby size track (polished cement) the DA 45 with the same wheels roll much faster vs the DA 10, Timed 10 laps etc for both.

You go outside lane (rink size floor) and the DA 10 runs away from DA 45?

Its not the weight either. I have added sinker lead inside the DA10 to bring them to same weight as the DA45.

Is there a different drag DA 45 from extra all 4 wheels grip on the floor in the big rink??????

It would seem that the DA 45 is steering more than the DA 10? So it should be faster or?????? But its slower for the free roll???????

In the old days I could check the wheel floor contact pattern by coating the wheels with Legal Size Typewriter carbon paper and skate the floor Observe the wheel pattern on the floor,slipping or gripping, Wheel distortion,grooves etc.

Building Manager says no at the present to the carbon marks.

So what I am seeing so far? If your session skating you need the DA 10,if your using the DA 45 your having a harder time.

Are most of you skating your DA 45's at sessions? If so is it difficult?? Do you need 2 sets of skates?

Or can the DA 45 be adjusted,cushions etc to make it the same.

To me? So far there is a huge difference.

We can't speed the DA 45 session skaters up much because the design is limiting it.

You thoughts please, suggestions. Is this something you see also????

Can it be adjusted out to do both?
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Old July 17th, 2012, 03:19 AM   #2
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I feel much slower when I am on my White Magnum than on my Lazer XTech. Same wheels and bearings.

I don't do derby, and love the way my XTechs skate, so my next plate is: Rogua Faster, Boen or an Ultimate IV.

If Sure Grip comes out with a 10 degree NTS like the Avenger I would consider it also.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 03:21 AM   #3
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Same. 45's are great for small box speed though. Dive in through the corners. That's about it. Sucks at wide open session, at least for me. Haven't been able to tune them to do much other than slop skating thus far on larger floors.

At smaller rinks they are fairly fun and definitely worth it for just that if you go to one. Outside speed is just the wrong app. for them. Definitely rink and application dependant. YMMV
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Old July 17th, 2012, 03:23 AM   #4
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You will notice a difference in how they turn. But the D/A 45 can be changed easily for slower action(more input for less turn). What plates are the D/A 45? You don't have an issue when you want to tilt the truck pivot angle, the pivot ball does not lift out of the cup when you shim the cushions up or down for an pivot angle adjustment. What makes it easy is that the cushion's center line is almost inline with the radius of pivot ball, unlike a D/A 10 plate.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 03:48 AM   #5
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Friction in the turns? THe DA45's which will turn more freely, *SHOULD* have less friction between the front and rear truck. It is more likely that both trucks are reacting equally, and therefore, more efficiently. The 10 degree turns less, and perhaps creates more friction in the turns.

The flip side is the straights. The stiffer 10 degree is quicker and a bit more efficient putting down power. It puts it down SOONER, though I would argue that the 45 puts it down deeper into a stroke. The quicker more efficient stroke beats the slower to kick in, but deeper 45 stroke.

That is my guesstimate.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #6
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If your DA10 suspension is too stiff, then you will not be keeping all wheels down, while going fast on the smaller size Derby track.

If the DA10's are rolling up on their edges much, in order to hold the line of the tighter track, then they will lose more speed. If the DA45's can keep all the wheels down on the floor following the tighter track, then they will maintain speed better.

Once you are following the larger track. the DA10 can roll all wheels down better, and you will tend to be making longer & stronger strokes than you can with the DA45, which tends to steer back into the push early, as it goes wide and your leg goes lower.

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Old July 17th, 2012, 10:56 AM   #7
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I have the same experience...at session skates my prolines far outrun my Da45's...on the derby track I get a much muchness but my ability to turn on a dime on the da45's, is a massive plus during a bout
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Old July 17th, 2012, 12:24 PM   #8
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didnt like my da10's for anything, sold em, cant compare, but ill keep up, doing anything, on my da45's.....might be more work, but im cool with that
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Old July 17th, 2012, 01:53 PM   #9
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I find that its all about how the plate is set up.
A few weeks back I was flying at session with no issues.
Skated hard and fast without tiring out.
This week I couldn't seem to transfer my power to the floor.
I struggled to keep up. Skating hard for two songs in a row wore me out.
Now mind you I was on two different pairs of skates from one week to the next and my plates where two different brands, but still D/A45s.
Same wheels and same cushions.
My trucks where much looser this week than they where the week before.
I think that's why I had to work so hard. The looser trucks where absorbing
the energy? That's the only thing I can figure.
I feel squirly on anything that's not a DA45 so I don't own any to compare.
But for me its all in how loose/tight/hardness of the cushion and of course what wheel works best for the floor and weather conditions I'm skating on and in.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 02:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billie View Post
I find that its all about how the plate is set up.
A few weeks back I was flying at session with no issues.
Skated hard and fast without tiring out.
This week I couldn't seem to transfer my power to the floor.
I struggled to keep up. Skating hard for two songs in a row wore me out.
Now mind you I was on two different pairs of skates from one week to the next and my plates where two different brands, but still D/A45s.
Same wheels and same cushions.
My trucks where much looser this week than they where the week before.
I think that's why I had to work so hard. The looser trucks where absorbing
the energy? That's the only thing I can figure.
I feel squirly on anything that's not a DA45 so I don't own any to compare.
But for me its all in how loose/tight/hardness of the cushion and of course what wheel works best for the floor and weather conditions I'm skating on and in.
Nice to hear you are back on skates Billie. Hope the arm is healing up nicely
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Old July 17th, 2012, 03:21 PM   #11
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Getting speed out of a DA45 on the big track takes time. If the edges get a little sloppy, the wheels will want to grip the floor instead of roll. I had a huge problem getting speed out of the when I ditched the Proline for the Altas.

On a derby track, the skates are almost always on an edge when at speed. The 45's don't require the same amount of precise control on the small track as the do on the 100 meter track. The other factor is that the small track is at the limits of most 10 degree plates. A skater has to do more work just to get them around a derby track.

With a 45, the suspension setup must match your skill and ability to be able to control them. Starting out stiff will help with the speed. But, starting out soft~ish will help with edge control.

The advantage of the 45 is that the wheels stay in contact with the floor much better. The result is that you will get much more grip out of the same wheels when compared to a 10 degree. Skaters often switch to harder wheels.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #12
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Have you considered that as a quad skate is turning, the contact surfaces of the wheels are in a bind with the floor? Especially with wide wheels. It may be minimal, but there is bound to be some "scrub".

If we are to be honest about it, inline skates are most efficient because the wheels are held in perfect alignment.

If this is the case, then a skate that is set up for a minimal amount of turn ability could offer less drag.

Of course technique is a major factor. How a skater contacts the floor with the skate will determine it's efficiency. A stiffer suspension may even mask poor technique.


I personally set my DA45s as loose as I can tolerate at high speed. Since my typical usage is fast session skating, I don't set them as soft as I would if I were doing low speed footwork, nor do I set them as stiff as I would if I were racing.
I wouldn't say that the DA45 can do it all, but it has an extremely wide range of adjustment.

I also feel that an individual's style will dictate which plate they will be most successful with. Try all that you can, then go with what works for you.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
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The advantage of the 45 is that the wheels stay in contact with the floor much better. The result is that you will get much more grip out of the same wheels when compared to a 10 degree. Skaters often switch to harder wheels.
Bingo. And skaters who don't maybe complain about things being slower... I always warn our skaters who go DA45 to consider trying some firmer wheels than they'd previously used.

I have skaters who outweigh me by 20 lbs or more complaining that the wheels I lent them cause them to slip in the turns. Those wheels grip fine in the turns for me. And my suspension is a not-so-loose purple/yellow combo.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #14
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When i first got my da/45's i hated them because of the loss of power transfer during push off.

After almost 2 years i decided to push the plate a lot farther forward putting the front axle ahead of my ball of foot...

It made a big difference for me for putting power down, still not quite as good as a da/5,10 or 15 but enough for me to keep from getting rid of them.

For me it don't matter what cushions you put on them, the nature of the action is the same when intially pushing off straight line but I did Armadillos experiment with reverse cones (purple top barrell w/ a purple bottom reverse cone) on the 45's and for me, made the push off as good as a proline and still turned as good as a sa/45 with-out speed wobbles but behaved in different springy manner which was awesome for power and session but ya had to stay on top of the action to keep it in check when doing turny moves and transitions, but still did the job of turning nonetheless if that makes sense? ymmv

I have to admit that the da/45 has made me a lazy skater because of how easy it is for me to cheat skating when set up in a conventional cushion set-up. I'm not a fast session skater, i just mope around and have a blast doing it. I skate a yellow barrell with blue cone set-up most of time but when i get a wild hair I'll decide to switch out to purple barrell with purple reverse cone using the cone retainer upside down under the nylock, spend @5-10 minutes recalibrating my legs and get power and action.


So okie, I may not be a slf superstar with 1000's of posts that makes my opinions have merit...but, IMHO, Yes the da/45 can be made to do both but something has to give in order to get it. Some here has done the reverse cone and hate it,some love it. I like it best on sa/45's but i'm not going to get into that here...

If i'm not mistaken, Lloyd (fierocious1) seems to have also got both from the da/45 but set it up completely different than i did. If i remember right the reason i never tried Lloyds suspension set-up was because i didn't have the extra cushions anymore and didn't want to take the time for testing again, and just being lazy but now i'm gonna go dig up some of Lloyds old threads/posts to see what he did and give it a go...
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Old July 17th, 2012, 11:14 PM   #15
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I don`t have a d/a45 but I do have Roll Line Driver on one pair of skates and a UIII on another and the UIII feels much faster when I have the wheels like Anabolix on both, even on just a roll.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 01:17 AM   #16
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On topic
Interesting, getting on D/A45's is an acceptable comprimise
As has been pointed out, harder wheels are required because of the increased traction. Also, if you run a D/A45 to far back it's squirrly, the advantage of the plate is stability and turning with the plate's front axle forward of the ball of the foot.
Staying behind the junction of the big and index toe still gives plenty of stability and also speed, moving it out to the junction of the big toe and index toe is better for speed less for "action", so... now it's gonna take a few pair of skates and a few pair of wheels to dial in a D/A45 for "adult nite"
Rear axle wise, until you've tried the rear axle at the outer ankle or inner ankle bone you don't realize how much more of a push you can make, with the rear axle moved forwrd you can bring the skate much further under yourself before the next push, lot's more recoil,imho,ymmv
If you're a golfer being able to make the ball spin left or right is a necessity, as a skater trying out different setups is eye opening.
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