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Old February 21st, 2010, 09:53 PM   #41
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If inline skating had made it into the Olympics, it would have been the marathon. The selling point was that you didn't have to build a venue specific to skating.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 12:59 AM   #42
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I think having inline in the Olympics may make more people want to be inliners rather than go to another sport before they grow older. Also the motivation to move to ice would be less since they already have that motivation now. From the ice to inliners I think it will happen but not for skaters at the top. Most won't be willing to get weaker at one to do the other since speed skating on ice already exists.

And I agree...criteriums and marathon would be great but I do think the fact that track is so big should make it an event as well. After all...I bet more people skate in tracks with wheels rather than doing short track. There is space for all three...they just got rid of stupid baseball and softball.

One thing I'd like to see and eventually try is a long time trial since thats what my specialty is on a bike. I think it would be great to have a marathon distance race where there is no drafting..just one skater off every 30 seconds and if you come up on someone you need to pass or skate to the side.

***When it comes to venue there "could be" an easy answer. For host nations without velodromes...they could build the apron for speed skaters. That way the cyclist could use the apron without going two miles per hour thanks to a small bank and the velodrome could also bring in money for two sports instead of one when the Olympics would be over.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 05:53 AM   #43
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Guess who got spanked tonight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlLDly-tu6Y

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Old February 22nd, 2010, 06:39 AM   #44
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...One thing I'd like to see and eventually try is a long time trial since thats what my specialty is on a bike. I think it would be great to have a marathon distance race where there is no drafting..just one skater off every 30 seconds and if you come up on someone you need to pass or skate to the side.
10K time trials are common, but i haven't heard of many marathon distance time trials. I think the problem is one of cost/benefit. It is no small feat to close the roads, mark the course, get necessary spotters and flaggers, insurance, etc. for a marathon distance event. For all that hassle, it doesn't make sense to serve the relatively small number that could be accomodated in a staggered start time trial. To justify that kind of investment in time and resources, you need to get a large group interested and kick them all out at one time so that the event can get wrapped up and the roads re-opened. And since so many events count on rec. skaters to fill out their numbers, very few rec. skaters are going to be interested in a time trial anyway.

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***When it comes to venue there "could be" an easy answer. For host nations without velodromes...they could build the apron for speed skaters. That way the cyclist could use the apron without going two miles per hour thanks to a small bank and the velodrome could also bring in money for two sports instead of one when the Olympics would be over.
Not an easy answer. When they were building the velodrome in my area, a skater friend of mine approached the company paying for the facility with just such an idea. They told him, they would consider it if he could raise the necessary funds to pay for the addition of the skating track or apron. As i seem to recall, the bulk of the cost would be in the earthwork costs, and it was in the range of $50k - $100k, and that was some ten or twelve years ago at least. Needless to say, the skating track inside the velodrome never got built. There is a flat apron inside for cyclists adjoining the banked track, but it totally flat, and it pretty much stinks for skating.
It's a damned shame that a country with these kinds of resources can't build a few banked tracks for skating.
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Old February 24th, 2010, 01:09 AM   #45
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Sven Kramer

Are You Stupid?

Are You?
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Old February 24th, 2010, 06:46 PM   #46
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Bill,
The OC has claimed the YT video. I really feel for Kramer. He should have known but when you have a coach telling you to do something and the stress of the moment, it is all too easy to do! I'd hate to be that coach!
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Old February 24th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #47
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What a terrible mistake to make. Bloody coach! He has one job to do and stuffs it.

If I was that coach I would not be going back to the Netherlands, lol.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:21 AM   #48
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i think everyone needs to just move on. It's an obvious mistake, couldn't be more understandable as a goof up plain and simple.

You know, i'm not a religious person but i am about to sound like one: maybe there's a purpose to this seeming accident, and that purpose is to put to the test our resolve for these supposed olympic GAMES. I mean, if it isn't obvious that Sven Kramer is far and away the best long distance long track skater, you haven't been watching much long track in the last two years. He obviously put in the best skating on that particular day on that ice. No question. So someone unrelated to the skater makes a dumb mistake and he loses just as sure as can be. So Netherlands has one less medal in their oh so precious count.

Get over it! It doesn't matter! Is he really going to lose one less endorsement or sponsorship deal? Is there really any difference between two and three gold medals? He's the best. There's no arguing that, either before these games, or after, for that matter.

I geniunely feel sorry for the coach. I hope his countrymen and Sven have the heart to forgive him and give him one more chance, becuase they should. If they could find it within themselves, and be proud for what they did regardless, i would feel that the olympic games truly are 'great'.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:52 AM   #49
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I agree with all of that, OI... A chance to get perspective, maybe, and oh, the poor coach, I hope he can live a semblance of a normal life after this...
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Old February 25th, 2010, 05:15 AM   #50
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O/I,

I cannot be totally onboard with all the "touchy/feely", forget and forgive stuff about the mistake or the coach. A Gold Medal is a considerable thing to lose due to incompetence. Kramer may only have this chance to achieve this Medal and now it is gone. I will not forget this and I am not Dutch.

On the other hand I agree with you as there will be a tomorrow and it is better to skate through life looking forward rather than backwards. I also agree that "disrespecting" the coach is not a productive endeavor. Kramer's skills do speak for themselves.

I wonder how some of our Dutch members feel about this whole mess?
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Old February 25th, 2010, 06:27 AM   #51
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Yep.
It sucks, but that's racing.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 06:29 AM   #52
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pop quiz: who would you rather be? Sven Kramer, sitting on the sidelines watching three other skaters receive their olympic medals or some speed skater that just got awarded a gold medal through a once in a lifetime fluke? No question about it. I'll take Sven Kramer any day of the week. Why? Becuase I would know that I was the fastest skater on earth in the 10,000 meter, and regardless of some total screw up, i'd wake up tomorrow and continue to beat the competition mercilessly. And the world knows that, too.
Hell, he probably has gotten more publicity from this fluke occurence than he ever would have had he done what everyone knew and expected him to do - win the 10,000 meter, again....
And he did forgive his coach, the next day.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 06:37 AM   #53
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Anyone remember Dan Jansen's falls?
Deja Vu?
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:29 PM   #54
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Sort of like the election between Gore and Bush. Gore had the majority of the populace vote, GW had the Electoral College and Supreme Court. Guess who goes into the History Books. Also rans are a footnote in history no matter how good they were. Olympic Gold is the historical acknowledgment of skills surpassing peers. Fifty years from now folks will look at the results and maybe some very old men will remember Kramer. He was robbed, that simple!
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Old February 25th, 2010, 09:54 PM   #55
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Quote:
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or some speed skater that just got awarded a gold medal through a once in a lifetime fluke?
I hope you are not referring to Steven Bradbury" Lol.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 10:39 PM   #56
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Personally I wouldn't want a medal that way. I've won medals in track and field for less flukey instances and it just doesn't feel right. You don't want to win because someone does a little screw up or the officials screw up...you want to win when everyone is at their best.
Last time this happened to me was in a TT and a competitor strong than me got a flat tire...its life but life sucks. And thats far less of a fluke than what happened. Of course they could never just give Kramer the medal since he never really skated a real time either. OF COURSE HE WON but he did do a shorter lap when he should have been on the outside. You can't give a guy a medal and never give him a real time...it doesn't work that way.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art G View Post
Anyone remember Dan Jansen's falls?
Deja Vu?
yes. That was heart wrenching.

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Sort of like the election between Gore and Bush. Gore had the majority of the populace vote, GW had the Electoral College and Supreme Court. Guess who goes into the History Books. Also rans are a footnote in history no matter how good they were. Olympic Gold is the historical acknowledgment of skills surpassing peers. Fifty years from now folks will look at the results and maybe some very old men will remember Kramer. He was robbed, that simple!
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Bunk!
First, who gives a crap what people remember in 50 years. IF that's what you have to live for, then you fall into the get a life category, and you have much bigger issues to worry about.
Second, Sven Kramer is winning medals left and right. He is not a footnote in history. He is the pinnacle of long track speed skating in this day and age and anyone who knows jack, knows it, and would gladly prefer his position in this and any other olympics over any other long distance long track skater's.
If this happened to anyone but Sven, it would be a tragedy, or at least a crying shame. Happening to the world's greatest, and it's just a screw up plain and simple.
Moreover, it's like ArtG said - "Yep. It sucks, but that's racing." Veganpotter, i agree with you, too. That's the only way they - the offcials or the winner - could have handled it under the circumstances, since he effectively raced a course of a different length.
Again, it would be nice to see that this doesn't ruin the coaches entire career, unless these types of screw-ups are a pattern. It is NOT going to ruin Sven's career, in that he's going home with at least one gold already, and has collected many World Cup titles alresdy,a dn will be collecting more by all appearances.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 01:15 AM   #58
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Quote:
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Sort of like the election between Gore and Bush. Gore had the majority of the populace vote, GW had the Electoral College and Supreme Court. Guess who goes into the History Books. Also rans are a footnote in history no matter how good they were. Olympic Gold is the historical acknowledgment of skills surpassing peers. Fifty years from now folks will look at the results and maybe some very old men will remember Kramer. He was robbed, that simple!
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Nein. If you don't like the rules, work to change them. Griping about the rules in a sport you signed up for, after the fact, is just silly. In both cases. And what OI said.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 02:44 AM   #59
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yes. That was heart wrenching.


Bunk!
First, who gives a crap what people remember in 50 years. IF that's what you have to live for, then you fall into the get a life category, and you have much bigger issues to worry about.
Second, Sven Kramer is winning medals left and right. He is not a footnote in history. He is the pinnacle of long track speed skating in this day and age and anyone who knows jack, knows it, and would gladly prefer his position in this and any other olympics over any other long distance long track skater's.
If this happened to anyone but Sven, it would be a tragedy, or at least a crying shame. Happening to the world's greatest, and it's just a screw up plain and simple.
Moreover, it's like ArtG said - "Yep. It sucks, but that's racing." Veganpotter, i agree with you, too. That's the only way they - the offcials or the winner - could have handled it under the circumstances, since he effectively raced a course of a different length.
Again, it would be nice to see that this doesn't ruin the coaches entire career, unless these types of screw-ups are a pattern. It is NOT going to ruin Sven's career, in that he's going home with at least one gold already, and has collected many World Cup titles alresdy,a dn will be collecting more by all appearances.
"Bunk, Get A Life, Much Bigger Issues to Worry About". I think you need to skate a few extra miles if a simple disagreement elicits this type of response. History speaks for itself and records are recorded. They will be looked at by future generations, that is a simple fact. One less medal will perhaps make no difference for this talented racer, then again that missing medal may keep him from achieving an overall record count, who knows.
You are the racer and perhaps you can put this competition in a better perspective that I can. I do know from my own competitive sports stupid was not tolerated. I can only imagine what it is like at the Olympic Level.
Holland will determine what happens to the coach and the level of forgiveness.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 03:02 AM   #60
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... One less medal will perhaps make no difference for this talented racer, then again that missing medal may keep him from achieving an overall record count, who knows....
I can agree with you on that. But i just can't imagine how this will make much of a difference in such an illustrious career as his. But who will know until it's all said and done, as you say.
I bet the coach's stupid mistake won't be tolerated, either.
Speaking of an overall medal count, the 500 meter short track final tomorrow is going to be quite a show! Go Apollo!
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