S k a t e L o g     F o r u m

Closed in June of 2020

SKATELOG DOT COM: Web Site | Blog | Facebook |    


Home

*** The SkateLog Forum Has Been Replaced by SkateDebate Dot Com ***

FROM SKATELOG FORUM HOST KATHIE FRY IN MARCH OF 2020:
This announcement is to let everyone know that after hosting the SkateLog Forum and its predecessors for nearly 20 years, I have decided it is time to permanently turn the forum over to a new owner and administrator. I cannot think of anyone more suitable to take on that role than my SkateLog forum co-host, Florida skater Jessica Wright. I am pleased to announce that Jessica has agreed to establish and host a brand new skating forum, configured like the SkateLog Forum, but with a new name and a new Web Site. This new forum is 100% owned and operated by Jessica.

NEW FORUM NAME: SkateDebate Forum
NEW WEB SITE: SkateDebate.com
NEW OWNER AND ADMINISTRATOR: Jessica Wright
REGISTER IN JESSICA'S FORUM: Create a SkateDebate Forum User Name


Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Roller Derby Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 12th, 2012, 04:46 AM   #1
Lala
Throbbing Member
 
Lala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 55
Default Drills to improve speed

I'm the slowest girl in my league. It's frustrating. I work my ass off, I'm consistently getting better at everything... except speed. Every time we do a drill where I'm the "jammer", it's meaningless if I get through the pack because even flat out, I can't compete with the faster girls and I get recycled immediately.

What can I do? When I first started skating (in March) it took a couple of months for something to click, and overnight I went from 17 in 5 to 25 in 5. I'm a little faster than that now, but I've pretty much hit a plateau. Is there another "click" that will happen? My hardest, fastest sprint can't even equal some girls' moderately casual skate.

The other thing is my take-off time. Are there drills you know that will help me turn the speed on quickly?

Any and all suggestions welcome. I will, of course, just keep skating. But I feel like I'm letting my team down and it sucks. Whatever I can do that might push this forward a little would be worth a try.
__________________
Antik AR1 boots - Mg Avenger plates - Bones Swiss bearings - Rollerbones Turbo 88a wheels - Crazy Skates Bloc Toe Stops
Lala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #2
genesea
Member
 
genesea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 52
Default

here's some other speed threads in the forum.

Bursts of Speed
First Bout - I need more speed!

Help! Loosing speed around corners
Speed?
Advise needed for jammer speed

the best advice from those threads that helped me was having someone video tape my skating so I could look at form and try to improve it.
also likely equip upgrade might help a bit (poopy R3s dont' sound promising ;P)
genesea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 05:34 AM   #3
Poobah
Senior Member
 
Poobah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,073
Default

"Poopy R3s (until I get some more moolah)/Mg Avenger/Bones Swiss/Reckless Evader 88s"

Note that she's replaced the plastic plates on her R3s with Avengers. Thing is, she's still got terribly soft wheels. Might try something firmer? All you want your wheels to do for you is not start sliding away on you in the turns. With your DA45 suspension firmer wheels could still grip in the turns while allowing you some faster roll (especially in the straights).

If you're on 88A wheels because you're sliding out in the turns, try loosening the action on the plates a bit. Are you still using all purple cushions? Yellows conics on bottom would be the next step softer from all purples. Then yellow barrels on top and yellow conics below. Then Yellow barrels/blue conics, then all blue. Cushions are incredibly cheap, so get a full set of yellow and blue and just pay shipping once (if your rink doesn't carry Supers). Experiment!

Another thing, avoid the temptation to push really hard in the straights and coast through the turns. That's a waste of energy. You want to be crossing over in the turns. Look for the suggestions in those threads about making the track a diamond or a circle.
__________________
*~[
Grand Poobah
Stats Geek
Poobah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 05:49 AM   #4
genesea
Member
 
genesea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 52
Default

there isn't much explanation of making the track a diamond/circle in those, but this thread is good for it.
genesea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 07:35 AM   #5
big-red
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 329
Default

getting lower, harder wheels, being more positive.

Also if youre getting through a pack take whips/ use team mates to gather speed from they should be helping you if youre the jammer.

Also getting lower. I would try and work on acceleration once youre already rolling, things like running on toe stops or "duck starts".

You need to either increase the efficiency of your stride, the power of your stride, the stride length or something else. lol
__________________
Gay Fawkes #511
big-red is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 09:05 AM   #6
cass38a
Senior Member
 
cass38a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,517
Default

A bit of cross training never hurt anybody, some box jumps to improve power, squats (proper weighted ones) to improve strength and low walks to improve endurance in the skating position. Even doing some sprints will help those fast twitch fibers.

However conditioning will only take you so far, proper technique is needed to maximize your speed.

The best advice I can give is to find a speed team with some old guys on it who used to skate quads. Join up and learn from speed skaters, they know how its done and are usually very keen to help (A lot of the derby crowd have not been trained as well as the old guys who were coached in 1980's and believe me there is a huge difference between a top level racer who had proper coaching and a fast rink rat or derby skater).

Spend a bit of time on the speed forum as 99% of the inline stuff transfers to quads.
cass38a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #7
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 4,348
Default Do you have a bike??

Back in the mid 90's, I was into mountain biking. Really loved it, and I had gotten pretty in shape from it. 1-3 hour rides off road with LOTS of hills. Us mountain bikers used to look at road bikers and say, hey, look at those road weenies. We did not think much of road riding. So a group of us decide to do the 50 mile Rosarito to Ensenada bike ride. None of us had gone 50 miles on the road. We were used to 3-8 rough hilly miles. Not 50 relatively flat miles. And there were hills, but not compared to what we were used to. Long story short, I found that after doing this relatively easy but long spin session, when I hit the mountain bike trail again, it was like my legs were possessed. I found I could go up hill much faster with seemingly the same amount of effort that used before to go slower.

What explains this phenomenon? It is called neromuscular efficiency. Me and my biking buddies learned a valuable lesson. That easy but fast pedaling made our legs MORE EFFICIENT. We knew that top racers rode on the road, but we did not know why. This was why.

So, what should YOU do? Beg borrow or steal a half way decent bike. It does not have to be great or anything, but it MUST have at least 7 gears. 21, 24, or 27 preferred. You should aim for riding somewhere in the 40-60 minute range. Lets talk cadence. What is cadence? It is foot speed, or pedaling speed. A cadence of 80, that is 80 revolutions per minute is the ideal pedaling speed. For your first 4 outings, simply stay at a cadence of 80. Oh, and VERY IMPORTANT, don't pedal hard. You are not building muscle here. You are training your nervous system to move your muscles quickly, not hard. And ANOTHER WARNING, if you do pedal hard and fast, you risk blowing out a knee. After about 4 outings of 80, taking care to choose the right gear to keep the pedaling pressure light, then bump up the pedaling speed to 90, keeping the pedaling pressure light. 80, 90, 100, and 110 are some of the pedaling speeds you may use. After a few sessions of easy pedaling at 80, do a minute of 90 several times during the ride. After doing 80 with some 90, mix in some 100. 100 will feel VERY fast. It may be the fastest pedaling speed you reach. 110 is extremely fast and very hard to maintain for more than 5 or 6 revolutions.

Riding a bike and doing these periods of faster pedaling, called intervals, is THE BEST method that I am aware of to increase ones' foot speed for whatever sport you are participating in.

Some Warnings:
I generally DO NOT recommend doing this on health club life/exercise cycles. The pedaling tension on those bikes are much higher than one would find on an actual good road/mountain bike. Those bikes are at a higher tension so people can get a good cycle workout after only 10-15 minutes. Doing what I have described on those bike WILL PUT YOUR KNEES AT RISK. If you only have access to these types of bikes, limit a ride to 10-15 minutes, do intervals of only 30 seconds, and do no more than 3 or 4 intervals per ride.

See if you can find yourself a biking coach. Someone to help you learn what cadence is what, and/or get a cadence monitor for your bike. This is not rocket science, but it isn't super easy either.

If you are wondering if this will "translate" to roller skating, the answer is yes. During my derby scrimmaging stint, I used biking for both my general cardio and foot speed training. That and circles for crossover training. I went from slow and sucking air to fast in two weeks. (bear in mind that I am an EXPERIENCED cyclist. It may take you 3 or 4 weeks to get your bearings and improve if you have not spent much time on a bike )
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 09:57 AM   #8
Phoenix177
Senior Member
 
Phoenix177's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Essex - UK
Posts: 385
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lala View Post
My hardest, fastest sprint
Stop trying this and just focus, slowly, on correct form; getting low with deep, purposeful cross-overs. You'll find your speed picks up effortlessly as a result.
__________________
http://ukrda.org.uk/
Phoenix177 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #9
Gorilla
Senior Member
 
Gorilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pittsburg, Kansas
Posts: 503
Default

technique is most important. As stated above, take the time to develop good crossovers. The speed will increase as you improve.

That being said, most "slower" skaters remain slow because they don't have good leg speed. Off skates do plyometrics. Below is a coolection of speed building off skate exercises, mostly collected from Mo Sanders (Quadzilla):

Balance - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpXT5...feature=relmfu
Fast Feet - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paGlPSs_Y9o
Bunny Hops - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI13m...feature=relmfu
Big Skips - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQXAt...feature=relmfu
Frog Hops/ Sumo Hops - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBGbG...feature=relmfu
Side to side jumps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33xfJ...feature=relmfu
Cross Overs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnSo8...feature=relmfu
One Leg Jumps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkyYd...feature=relmfu
Jump Ups - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIHDt...feature=relmfu



Not Quadzilla

Plyometric Routine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NVz2...eature=related



"Speed Skaters" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KKfz9KJ_W4
Gorilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 02:22 PM   #10
16blue
Member
 
16blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 84
Default

To echo everyone else, it's likely a form issue. If it's not a cardiovascular issue (i.e. you get winded and slow down as a result), then it's not getting low enough, not getting full power out of your crossovers, not picking up your feet and continuing to do crossovers as you go around the apex.

(I remember when I first started derby -- and was the slowest on the team -- I would be put at the front of our paceline and would constantly be yelled at to keep moving my feet around those curves. It was scary, and I always felt like I would go flying/go splat, but it definitely helped.)

You probably will feel a bit unstable trying harder wheels and continuing to do your crossovers all the way around the apex, but you will get used to it.
16blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #11
HK47
Roll Player
 
HK47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere near London
Posts: 4,162
Default

Another vote for good speed skating form - it makes the difference between "25 in 5" and "over 30 in 5" or even being able to just drop into cruise control and rattle off 100 laps without being in pain.

Start slow and purposeful, work up in speed.

Also, how your skates are tuned also contributes, with hardness of wheels being a comparatively minor difference over all IMO.
__________________
"You guys better git some HEAD TRANSPLANTS QUICK! " ~ Okie
HK47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 07:48 PM   #12
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,335
Default

You will have to push out of your comfort zone. Learn to turn at speed on either foot, right or left. This will help you be more comfortable in the turns when pushing harder in your cross overs. Wheels in the 93a range should also pick up your speed and still give you traction.
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #13
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 4,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla View Post
technique is most important. As stated above, take the time to develop good crossovers. The speed will increase as you improve.

That being said, most "slower" skaters remain slow because they don't have good leg speed. Off skates do plyometrics. Below is a coolection of speed building off skate exercises, mostly collected from Mo Sanders (Quadzilla):

Balance - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpXT5...feature=relmfu
Fast Feet - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paGlPSs_Y9o
Bunny Hops - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI13m...feature=relmfu
Big Skips - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQXAt...feature=relmfu
Frog Hops/ Sumo Hops - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBGbG...feature=relmfu
Side to side jumps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33xfJ...feature=relmfu
Cross Overs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnSo8...feature=relmfu
One Leg Jumps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkyYd...feature=relmfu
Jump Ups - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIHDt...feature=relmfu



Not Quadzilla

Plyometric Routine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NVz2...eature=related



"Speed Skaters" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KKfz9KJ_W4
Actually this stuff is simpler and more straight forward than the biking method. (As I said, if you don't do the bike method RIGHT, you are risking knee injury) Plus no bike required. The bike way was great for me because I can no longer do any of the jumping stuff. My knees would swell up quickly if I tried.

So do this if you have good joints. If you have joint issues and these plyometrics irritate them, the biking method is an easy on the joints method.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #14
Lala
Throbbing Member
 
Lala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 55
Default Food for thought

Thanks so much, everyone. I will definitely take all of this under advisement. I skate 88s (although these Reckless wheels feels harder than that to me) because we practice on the most uneven, slippery, nasty old sport court you can imagine. I'm about 170lbs and I still skid out in the corners when I push hard. I'm actually going to get a pusher wheel to put in the front driver's side of both skates this weekend. Hopefully that will let me push a little harder.

As for the bike - ce n'est pas possible. But the plyo stuff is definitely doable. I really appreciate all the feedback. I was so frustrated at practice last night that I vowed to do ANYTHING to go faster!
__________________
Antik AR1 boots - Mg Avenger plates - Bones Swiss bearings - Rollerbones Turbo 88a wheels - Crazy Skates Bloc Toe Stops
Lala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 11:13 PM   #15
Lala
Throbbing Member
 
Lala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 55
Default P.S.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK47 View Post
Another vote for good speed skating form - it makes the difference between "25 in 5" and "over 30 in 5" or even being able to just drop into cruise control and rattle off 100 laps without being in pain.

Start slow and purposeful, work up in speed.

Also, how your skates are tuned also contributes, with hardness of wheels being a comparatively minor difference over all IMO.
How do I know if I'm in good skating form? What should it feel like? And look like?
__________________
Antik AR1 boots - Mg Avenger plates - Bones Swiss bearings - Rollerbones Turbo 88a wheels - Crazy Skates Bloc Toe Stops
Lala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 12th, 2012, 11:45 PM   #16
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 4,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lala View Post
How do I know if I'm in good skating form? What should it feel like? And look like?
You may be able to test your form/skill yourself. How? Doing some circles. Do crossovers in a circle that is about 15 feet wide. Pick a rhythm and stick to it. Maybe do it to a song you like and stay on beat. If you can do 10-20 times around without wavering, short steps, balance checks, falling over , then it would be safe to say you have good form. If this exercise reveal issues, keep practicing in the circle until you clear the issues up. To take a break, go the opposite direction. Good for muscle balance.

You sound like you have come a long way in a short time as a skater. If things seem ok from the circle exercise, getting a harder wheel (90, 92) and learning how to deal with it on your slippery floor might be the next challenge on your plate as a skater. Also, have you changed out your hard cushions? Maybe some yellow or blue SG urethane cushions will improve the action on your skate.

Ps: If I still had joints that worked proper, I would do some of the jumping plyometrics, but I would do the Fast Feet lots.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9

Last edited by rufusprime99; October 13th, 2012 at 01:53 AM.
rufusprime99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2012, 03:06 AM   #17
HK47
Roll Player
 
HK47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere near London
Posts: 4,162
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lala View Post
How do I know if I'm in good skating form? What should it feel like? And look like?
A good video about this very thing
__________________
"You guys better git some HEAD TRANSPLANTS QUICK! " ~ Okie
HK47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2012, 04:26 AM   #18
MANY_SkatingDave
Skating = Tear RIFF ic
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts: N. Central & NE
Posts: 4,607
Default PA Organ Country has Great Skaters

Hi Lala,

On a recent tread someplace other than Derby, we talked about skate cross_training. I posted so you can do a search of my recents to find the tread. This is a bit different in thought than cross training or Off Skate Training. I think Cass38a from Australia got me to write about this.

My point is you have to do lots of different types of skating to change your pace and make you stronger and more versatile. . And Yes even InLine Skating can help. Did you ever notice that the former Art Skate Gals do terrific.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
__________________
InDoor Quads: Witch Doctor Wheels, Bones Swiss/Qube-Gold Bearings, Older RollerBlade Wrist Guards -| InDoor Clothes: Cargo Shorts, Sweat Towel
MANY_SkatingDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2012, 05:26 AM   #19
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 5,719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lala View Post
How do I know if I'm in good skating form? What should it feel like? And look like?
The clock tells you when your form is good.

Things that matter for skating with good speed in order of importance:

1) Stay low - Really Low, and get as much explosive leg extension into each stroke as possible.
2) Push Wide with both legs - the left leg under push is critical for speed, perhaps more critical than the right leg push, so work it to the max.
3) Push your stroke straight out to the side at 90 degrees to the direction of travel - NOT REARWARD - and keep the heel pushing down onto the floor, just as much as your forefoot, as you finish your strokes.
4) Keep all four wheels down on the floor - no edges - and have your weight evenly distributed onto all four of them. No extra focus of weight onto the front or the rear axle.

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #20
Uma Plata
ninja in training
 
Uma Plata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 92
Default

Going back to the original post....From what I am gathering, you are fighting the cross over because you are more comfortable with the straight. Any time I have taught a newer skater with this mindset, there is the same bad habit: pushing with the left foot when it should be a sweep. Without seeing you skate, I cannot tell, but skate a few laps and see if you notice. When you are going through the turn and it starts to get uncomfortable, instead of sweeping your left foot under to complete the cross over, are you pushing it out as if you are on the straight? Every part of your body should be propelling you toward the inside of the track. If you are kicking out with your left foot, your are propelling yourself outward, cancelling out all the work you just did. If this happens, stop trying to step a moment, offset your feet a bit (right foot in front, left in back), change levels (get lower), regain balance, THEN start stepping. I have seen MANY skaters who are struggling with lap times pass their test once they have eliminated this problem. I hope you get what I am saying, it's hard to explain without showing you
__________________
Demolition City Roller Derby / Cobras Speed Team
http://www.myspace.com/demolitioncity
http://www.demolitioncityrollerderby.com/
Uma Plata is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.