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Slalom Cone Skating Forum Discussions about slalom cone skating, high-jump, and other freestyle trick skating. (Note that vert, street, and park skating discussions should be posted in our aggressive skating forum.)

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Old August 3rd, 2015, 09:27 PM   #1
Loya
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Default Should I upgrade my skates?

Hi, I am currently rocking Powerslide Imperials (my starter skates) and am looking to upgrade, though I'm not sure if it is the time to. Seeing as I have relatively small feet, the smaller wheels for rockering (68mm for me) are hard to come by so I have little option but to use my formerly 72mm wheels which have worn down for the outside ones to get a rocker (what I am doing currently). This is kinda annoying and I'd like to be able to rocker with wheels I have bought at the right sizes straight off! If I were to buy a rockered frame to eradicate the 68mm wheel problem, then that would set me back over 100 and I'm thinking I should save more pricey skate customisation like this for when I have higher-end, meant-for-longer-term-use, most likely Seba skates - a progression which seems inevitable.

So, then, now might be the time for that progression... perhaps to Seba Highs. From the lack of discussion about my current skate model online, I gather that I might now be better off buying a much more raved-about, higher market skate such as this. The High seems to get great reviews. Two of the main draws seem to be that they fit more tightly around your feet and also feel really comfortable after the break-in period. My Imperials seemed to fit well for the first few months (I've been using them for 6) but perhaps the liners have thinned now as I am noticing the movement they are allowing for inside now. I also have a sore developing on the outside of a big toe. The thicker socks have subsequently made their way into the picture. )

So do these plus points of Seba Highs ring true? Might this then make moves easier for me to execute and thus improve the quality of my slalom quicker than my current skates would, meaning I'm better off buying them now than waiting 'til I feel I am better at slalom and more deserving of them? Not long after I switched to a rockered setup just a couple of weeks ago, I noticed a huge jump in my skates' maneuverability. The learning curve suddenly became a lot more shallow. So might a similar thing at least slightly noticeably happen again if I made this skate switch?

Assuming the answer to that last question is yes... would it really be wise to don cloth-covered Seba Highs? They look like they would have a lower damage threshold and could take a real battering from all the falls they inevitably have yet to take the brunt of (I am only 3 months into slaloming and have a helluva lot left to learn.) So is that something to worry about/should I keep on with my firmly exo-skeletal Imperials whilst I am still falling regularly?

Any suggestions, like buying a new Powerslide liner etc., much appreciated!
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Old August 4th, 2015, 02:13 AM   #2
Dontburnout
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Do you have the imperials with the MyFit liner or the other liner?
Just curious about that.

Regarding fit, it seems to be an opinion thing, some swear by Seba, some swear by Rollerblade, some swear by Powerslide. Just because the masses aren't raving about them doesn't mean they aren't good. Skates are as trendy as anything else and sheeple follow the herd.

You should try on a pair and then wait a while before you decide to shell out major dough for a new pair.

Also look at your Imperials, which I dig by the way...are they scratched and scuffed up? I ask because you are dead on about the soft boot of the Seba being less durable. Also a soft boot is totally different feel. I like the rigidity of a hard shell, but I speed skate long distance also and am used to an all carbon low top boot for that.

It comes down to this. You want a skate that fits snug, but doesn't hurt or make you go numb. Fit is most important if you want a maneuverable skate.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 02:19 AM   #3
Dontburnout
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Do you have the imperials with the MyFit liner or the other liner?
Just curious about that.

Regarding fit, it seems to be an opinion thing, some swear by Seba, some swear by Rollerblade, some swear by Powerslide. Just because the masses aren't raving about them doesn't mean they aren't good. Skates are as trendy as anything else and sheeple follow the herd.

You should try on a pair and then wait a while before you decide to shell out major dough for a new pair.

Also look at your Imperials, which I dig by the way...are they scratched and scuffed up? I ask because you are dead on about the soft boot of the Seba being less durable. Also a soft boot is totally different feel. I like the rigidity of a hard shell, but I speed skate long distance also and am used to an all carbon low top boot for that.

It comes down to this. You want a skate that fits snug, but doesn't hurt or make you go numb. Fit is most important if you want a maneuverable skate.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 10:11 AM   #4
Loya
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Thanks for your reply, Dontburnout!

I don't have a MyFit liner - just a regular one. For the moment I would be hesitant about buying one - I think I would have to try on some Sebas first, like you suggest, in case I fall in love with them and never look back. (I am probably over-romanticising here...uh..!) Trouble is, looking at all the websites I can buy from, my size (UK 4 in skates) seem quite hard to come by. Have you ever trialed a MyFit liner?

Yeah, my Imperials are quite scuffed. Though to be fair, most of that damage was attained when I was starting to skate and learn the most basic of slalom moves. However going by what you say, sounds like I should stay away from certain softer boots for now. Though I am still really curious about how they feel. If only it were possible to experience the feel of a correctly-sized, broken-in, soft-booted Seba in a shop... if it wasn't for minor issues such as the tedium and expense of a system allowing this for all skates of all sizes then that might be something worth implementing!

Thankfully my Imperials have, for the most part, neither hurt nor made me go numb - in case anyone is reading this to inform a decision on whether or not to buy this model. I don't have many (if any) bad things to say about my skates, really, though I do wonder if maybe one day I'll look back at these ones and see them as inferior to a current pair (and purchasable right now). I can just imagine skating around on a long-kept, snug set of soft-booted Sebas and then deciding to take my old Imperials for a whirl, finding they are noticeably less comfortable and being surprised that I ever thought they were as good as I did... but hey, maybe I'm falling for the illusion of 'the grass is greener' . It can get to you quite easily if you're in a period of lack of progression and frustration with your slalom, no?

Ahh. If only 68mm wheels were as widely stocked as 72mm and up. Then I wouldn't feel the need to already be considering upgrading/switching to my next skate, on which I can fit a pre-rockered frame that can be in use for longer, unlike if I got one for just my first skates. Actually, if I were to buy a Seba Deluxe Rockered frame, do you know if it would it fit onto my Powerslide Imperials?
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Old August 4th, 2015, 06:48 PM   #5
Shaw
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New skate boots will probably help you progress, but not anywhere near the difference between rockered/flat. Using a flat set-up or overly long frames will greatly hinder your maneuverability for slalom, but so long as you're using an appropriately sized frame/wheels and a sturdy and supportive boot it's mostly dependent on your personal skill.

Also, I disagree about Seba Highs being less durable. I wore Highs for five years, and abused them pretty hard. They're in pretty bad shape now with half a buckle strap gone, another buckle being damaged, the slide guard worn down past the screws, etc. but they're still skateable. You really can't compare Highs to a normal soft-shelled skate. The Highs might not be made of hard plastic but they're stiffer and sturdier than any hard-shelled skate that I know of (not counting aggressive skates).

The rockered deluxe frames should fit onto your imperials, but I can't guarantee it. For example, Powerslide's old Hardcore frames wouldn't fit on my highs, even though they both use the 165mm frame standard. I think Powerslide uses screws with slightly smaller heads than Seba, so with a light bit of filing I could've gotten them to fit, and it shouldn't be an issue putting Seba frames onto Powerslide skates. I've also seen numerous people with Powerslide Alpha frames attached to KSJs, and a few with deluxe frames on EVOs.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 08:48 PM   #6
Loya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw View Post
New skate boots will probably help you progress, but not anywhere near the difference between rockered/flat. Using a flat set-up or overly long frames will greatly hinder your maneuverability for slalom, but so long as you're using an appropriately sized frame/wheels and a sturdy and supportive boot it's mostly dependent on your personal skill.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw View Post
Also, I disagree about Seba Highs being less durable. I wore Highs for five years, and abused them pretty hard. They're in pretty bad shape now with half a buckle strap gone, another buckle being damaged, the slide guard worn down past the screws, etc. but they're still skateable. You really can't compare Highs to a normal soft-shelled skate. The Highs might not be made of hard plastic but they're stiffer and sturdier than any hard-shelled skate that I know of (not counting aggressive skates).
Ah, that’s interesting. Very reassuring. I wonder at what stage for most Seba-rocking slalomers a good pair of at least Highs came into the picture (assuming they aren’t their first skates, which I'd guess is uncommon).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw View Post
The rockered deluxe frames should fit onto your imperials, but I can't guarantee it. For example, Powerslide's old Hardcore frames wouldn't fit on my highs, even though they both use the 165mm frame standard. I think Powerslide uses screws with slightly smaller heads than Seba, so with a light bit of filing I could've gotten them to fit, and it shouldn't be an issue putting Seba frames onto Powerslide skates. I've also seen numerous people with Powerslide Alpha frames attached to KSJs, and a few with deluxe frames on EVOs.
Good to hear. With that kind of versatility, I may just get some Deluxe Rockered frames for my Powerslides… wheel sourcing problem solved. That is, if I can track down a vendor who at least ships some to the UK!

Thanks for your reply, Shaw. It has been very helpful.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 10:01 PM   #7
Dontburnout
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>>>>>[QUOTE=Loya;707683]Thanks for your reply, Dontburnout!

I don't have a MyFit liner - just a regular one. For the moment I would be hesitant about buying one - I think I would have to try on some Sebas first, like you suggest, in case I fall in love with them and never look back. (I am probably over-romanticising here...uh..!) Trouble is, looking at all the websites I can buy from, my size (UK 4 in skates) seem quite hard to come by. Have you ever trialed a MyFit liner?<<<<<<<<<




I have the MyFIt Fatboy in my rec skates. Its not bad, fits snug and is comfortable.

The Hardcore Evo you mentioned is a one piece skate, meaning that it has no liner. That means no liner to slide around in the shell... you may not be having that problem though. You shouldn't be if your skates fit properly. The low rear cuff and toe strap should make it maneuverable and tight fitting. Is it worth it, if your current setup is working well...hard to say. When I started skating I was rocking junk skates with good wheels generic $2 bearings that only had "Germany" stamped on the side. If only I could find those bearings now...
The skates didn't matter, because they fit well and I could skate well.

Excuse the novel, I have been through this dilemma many times.
As my freestyle skating progressed I threw money at better equipment.
As my aggressive skating progressed I started throwing money at better equipment, only to finally go back to rocking my old Solomon ST1s with a hood-rat soul plate mod.
Then as my speed skating progressed and I got into long distance endurance skating, I am still constantly trying to workout the perfect setup...mega distance on speed skates can be bloody painful at times.

about your sourcing issue:
http://www.locoskates.com in the UK

they don't list the rocketed Deluxe frame, but they should be able to order it no problem

you could give them a call
01323 411030

they could help you out with getting Seba stuff shipped to you in London, or direct you to a reputable shop that could...

Also, you might be able to find 68 mm wheels if you look for outdoor hockey wheels.

good luck
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Old August 5th, 2015, 08:08 AM   #8
kev0
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if you already have an entry level slalom boot, there is not a huge difference going from entry level to another entry level.

seeing as you already have the imperials, the seba highs won't be a HUGE difference. it may feel more comfortable/uncomfortable, slightly lighter/heavier, slightly more rigid, it really could go either way. that being said, i started on the highs and really loved it from the get-go. my only other experiences with a non-carbon boot are a friends FR1's which felt relatively similar.

when it comes to slalom skating, i feel that the logical progression is to move to a carbon boot when you feel like you are ready to invest in one. the offside is that carbon boots also MUCH more expensive than other types of skates, and furthermore the difference is only hugely major for ONE specific area of slalom skating, that is tricks on one wheel. i used the highs for 3 years or so, and decided that i enjoyed the sport enough to warrant an investment in a carbon boot. the weight certainly makes a noticable difference when it comes to landing standard tricks, but as mentioned in the previous sentence, the most major difference were one wheel tricks.

finally as mentioned in this thread, the best option would be to grab a new pair of frames. seba or seba deluxe, powerslide etc to accommodate your wheel problems. the only pair of frames i would recommend to steer away from are the gyro ones. i've known one skater who had them on the oldest seba igor skates, and for some reason or another, they sat too far front (or back) with no way of adjusting. (although it may be because the oldest igors didn't have an option to move the frames forward and backwards)
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Old August 5th, 2015, 09:25 PM   #9
Loya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dontburnout View Post

Excuse the novel, I have been through this dilemma many times.
Not at all - novels are good! I like hearing about others' experiences. I'm not sure I like the sound of a one piece skate, however - being able to have your options open instead seems preferable, what with all the customisation possibilities out there (unless some two-piece ones allow for movement of the liner, of course, like you say). My setup must be working for me though. I can't really complain!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dontburnout View Post
As my freestyle skating progressed I threw money at better equipment.
As my aggressive skating progressed I started throwing money at better equipment, only to finally go back to rocking my old Solomon ST1s with a hood-rat soul plate mod.
Then as my speed skating progressed and I got into long distance endurance skating, I am still constantly trying to workout the perfect setup...
It must take a lot of experimentation to find the perfect equipment combo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dontburnout View Post
mega distance on speed skates can be bloody painful at times.
I can believe it... how far do you travel on a typical long-distance skate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dontburnout View Post
about your sourcing issue:
http://www.locoskates.com in the UK

they don't list the rocketed Deluxe frame, but they should be able to order it no problem

you could give them a call
01323 411030

they could help you out with getting Seba stuff shipped to you in London, or direct you to a reputable shop that could...

Also, you might be able to find 68 mm wheels if you look for outdoor hockey wheels.

good luck
Thanks for the info! That's great. Didn't know they'd be prepared to source parts on demand like that. As for the wheels, I wasn't sure if hockey ones would be up to the mark for slalom - didn't want to assume and risk it. So it's all good news then for the frames and wheel situations

Quote:
Originally Posted by kev0 View Post
seeing as you already have the imperials, the seba highs won't be a HUGE difference. it may feel more comfortable/uncomfortable, slightly lighter/heavier, slightly more rigid, it really could go either way. that being said, i started on the highs and really loved it from the get-go. my only other experiences with a non-carbon boot are a friends FR1's which felt relatively similar.
I'm glad you've told me that. Don't want to be kidding myself that I'm missing out too much for now! That's interesting that the FR1s felt similar, though - I wouldn't have expected that, going by what I've read on other threads here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kev0 View Post
when it comes to slalom skating, i feel that the logical progression is to move to a carbon boot when you feel like you are ready to invest in one. the offside is that carbon boots also MUCH more expensive than other types of skates, and furthermore the difference is only hugely major for ONE specific area of slalom skating, that is tricks on one wheel. i used the highs for 3 years or so, and decided that i enjoyed the sport enough to warrant an investment in a carbon boot. the weight certainly makes a noticable difference when it comes to landing standard tricks, but as mentioned in the previous sentence, the most major difference were one wheel tricks.
Those are interesting observations - Carbon Highs do sound like a blast... You're right on about only getting them when you're ready to make such an investment, though. One day maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kev0 View Post
finally as mentioned in this thread, the best option would be to grab a new pair of frames. seba or seba deluxe, powerslide etc to accommodate your wheel problems. the only pair of frames i would recommend to steer away from are the gyro ones. i've known one skater who had them on the oldest seba igor skates, and for some reason or another, they sat too far front (or back) with no way of adjusting. (although it may be because the oldest igors didn't have an option to move the frames forward and backwards)
Yes, new frames will be the way to go now. But yikes, those old Igor frames sound bizzare. I had a problem with my right frame being off-center a few weeks ago and I wondered if that was really the case or if I was just imagining things. Sure enough, I was right, as I discovered when their bolts finally loosened enough to move the frame freakishly easily towards the inside of my skate, mid-slalom. Moving it back into place and really tightening the bolts meant for a very refreshing next skate... suddenly my one-footed snake wasn't perplexingly difficult anymore...

Thanks for the advice, kev0!
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Old August 6th, 2015, 09:28 AM   #10
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of course, you can certainly get carbon based skates earlier if you wish. it really does feel a lot better to slalom in (in my opinion) :P

sometimes you feel like you can get passionate about a sport right from the start, and if you are planning for a drastic upgrade anyways - why not carbon?

haha, i have certain prejudices against the carbon high. i feel that it is too expensive for its utility. if you prefer a dedicated slalom skate, the way to go would be powerslide hardcore evo/ksj/trix/igors

the frame that is a bit funky on the positioning is the gyro slalom frame:

http://www.baysideblades.com.au/inli...es/gyro_s8.jpg

it is a pretty hard frame to find, so i doubt you will end up with one. some boots can probably accommodate the orientation of the frames
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Old August 7th, 2015, 01:17 PM   #11
Loya
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That's true - I could just go ahead 'n get some and enhance the slalom experience right now... aw, but I like having things to look forward to. Perhaps when I'm a little bit better and they can be that just lovely, longer-awaited reward. I'll work my way up to them, with maybe some other skates in between, I think. One of those skate models you list will be on the cards at some point

I suppose. I guess demand is just high enough for them to charge so much and still get buyers! Like you and maybe me some day...

Nope, you're right - must be hard to come across as I've not seen it before. I didn't even realise Gyro made frames before your first mention of one of theirs. Thought they were just focused on wheels. Anyway, glad they'll be easy to steer clear of. (Is that a pun? Surely not...)
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Old August 8th, 2015, 12:28 AM   #12
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If you are good with your boot, rock it. You will be totally stoked to get out on a new frame and solve your wheel hunting dilemma for good. The most bang for buck is always were the money meets the road. That means fresh wheels suited for the kind of skating you are doing. Sometimes getting a new skate or boot can totally throw your game off all together, they can be so different and you may not realize certain things you like about your current setup until you try to leave it behind. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. I would say that not being able to find wheels merits a bit of fixing though.
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Old August 18th, 2015, 09:06 AM   #13
Loya
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Yeah, if it wasn't for the wheel problem then I'd just keep on with my current equipment for sure. I think it's worth the risk trying that potentially throwing off skate - after all, if I'm going to make the transition some day, at that point I'll have to be getting used to it whenever that is anyway.

There's already something I'm sure I'll have to get used to with any new skate or frame actually, which is an increased wheel base length. I noticed just the other day that whilst my wheels sit pretty much completely under my boot, most others' (on YouTube) seem to protrude out from it. So I went and did a bit of reading around on this forum and it was mentioned that going from a smaller frame to one a size up (providing it is an appropriate change) would increase one's power and stability. I look forward to that, if that does happen, when it comes to having this new setup.

Only trouble is... Seba don't seem to make any non-Junior boots in my corresponding size (UK 4/US 5/EU 37) ! Just as I have recently warmed to the idea of upgrading a few steps now already when being away... so it looks like I might just have to buy a deluxe frame to go on my Imperials instead.

The other option, of course, is to buy some Powerslide Hardcore Evos (2014 model), which do stock my size, but then I'm slightly resentful of the fact that the two lowest sizes for them (one of which is my corresponding one) don't have rockered frames. Oh, and they're also 219mm which doesn't get rid of my wheel problem. (I have decided that I'd settle for a 231mm flat frame so long as it is a Deluxe -- though a 213mm rockered would be the ideal to allow me to buy wheel designs later on that only come in 76mm and 80mm. Unless, either way, 231mm is a bit too big for my size maybe?)

I suppose it might be worth me asking Locoskates if they might put on a 231mm Seba Deluxe frame for me instead. Then again, I still feel a little like steering away from the Powerslide skate because I'm a unhappy about the implied smaller sizes can't use/don't want rockered setups thinking going on there. Then again, good on them for at least making skates in my size for those few unlucky small-footed adults.

On the other hand, if Seba made size 4s, then I would be jumping right up to High Light Carbons very soon... ya hear that, Seba?
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Old August 18th, 2015, 10:27 AM   #14
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Actually, looking at Proskatersplace's US site, looks like my size is made by Seba for at least some skates. I guess there just must be too little demand for such a small boot over here in the UK for vendors to think it's worth importing some. Damn.
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Old August 19th, 2015, 08:26 AM   #15
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the frame-length is completely preferential. 219's are relatively popular in europe but non-existent down under. larger frame bases allow for a better power transfer, more stable ride and smoother overall skating, but a shorter frame length is much more maneuverable and easier wheelings.

if possible, do not get the pre-rockered 231. try for the flat 231 (72-76-76-72). i dont know if 219 rockered exists, but if they do, they are also a viable-to-good option (72-72-72-72).

prerockered frame means that you use slightly larger front and back wheels and as such your 'effective' frame length is slightly longer than a standard. if you think 231's are too big, then prerockered 231 are definitely too big.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 01:09 PM   #16
Loya
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I see. Sounds like a tough call. Guess I won't know what I'd prefer until I try a larger one. I would consider getting rockered 219mm frames if 72mm wheels were as widely stocked in different colours as 76mm (allowing for, of course, more customisation options each time I get bored with my skates' appearance! I realise how trivial that sounds, and bizarre, as a result, to be getting in the way of my decision-making here, but... well I like to keep my options open.) So I do feel I have little choice if I want a rocker - will have to get 231mm frames.

I hadn't thought about that - thanks for pointing it out to me. 231mm rockereds now out of the picture!
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Old August 21st, 2015, 02:13 PM   #17
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i understand completely haha. i am even considering changing my perfectly functional 2011 trix for an another skate because i want a colour change
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Old August 21st, 2015, 07:16 PM   #18
Loya
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Oh right! Haha, exactly. The phrase 'why not?' comes to mind. Then so does the answer.

But hey, for once we'll ignore that, in favour of milking our hobby for all enjoyment possible!
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