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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old February 20th, 2018, 02:45 AM   #1
amohrfeld
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Default Short plate playing ticks on my mind.

Mount on the left is perfect. Plenty of balance and maneuverability.
Mount on the right is OK. Makes me want to go fast but not turn backwards. It feels like my version of a short forward.

After testing I was thinking about moving the plate back about (2-2.5 mm). Then I did this comparison. The plate is already further back then my "preferred" mount.

So I can only conclude that the problem is the short plate and not the aft position. However this is not what I was "feeling".

Somehow moving the front wheel backwards makes me feel less stable at the heel when skating backwards. Completely counter-intuitive.

Background: I've been experimenting with shorter plates for more maneuverability. But I'm finding the sacrifice in comfort is not worth the added maneuverability. I tried an even shorter plate previously and the problem was even worse.

20180219_202631 by Austin Mohrfeld, on Flickr
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Old February 20th, 2018, 03:15 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
Mount on the left is perfect. Plenty of balance and maneuverability.
Mount on the right is OK. Makes me want to go fast but not turn backwards. It feels like my version of a short forward.

After testing I was thinking about moving the plate back about (2-2.5 mm). Then I did this comparison. The plate is already further back then my "preferred" mount.

So I can only conclude that the problem is the short plate and not the aft position. However this is not what I was "feeling".

Somehow moving the front wheel backwards makes me feel less stable at the heel when skating backwards. Completely counter-intuitive.

Background: I've been experimenting with shorter plates for more maneuverability. But I'm finding the sacrifice in comfort is not worth the added maneuverability. I tried an even shorter plate previously and the problem was even worse.

20180219_202631 by Austin Mohrfeld, on Flickr
the breakover point is important to me. i put the front wheels forward to where I like them and the rear wheels at a balance point, not too far back but not forward either. the center to center is what it is
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Old February 20th, 2018, 05:18 AM   #3
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Move the plate forward till the wheels are level with your toes.Then try backwards.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 05:27 AM   #4
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Move the plate forward till the wheels are level with your toes.Then try backwards.
Maybe. It just seems like the problem would get worse. But I'll never know until I try it.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 08:23 AM   #5
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Height of heel also messes with the axle placements for the right "feel"
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Old February 20th, 2018, 09:16 AM   #6
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Height of heel also messes with the axle placements for the right "feel"
I was going to say the same thing buddy!
Heels or lack there of, will definitely change the feel.of a skate, even if everything is the same.

But I hate short plates myself I got plenty of agility. Never limited by the plates, only by the grip available on the floor.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 09:35 AM   #7
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i always centered the wheels and the plate.
it s the better compromise.

longer plates helps for stability.

in my opinion it's necessary that a plate is as long as shoes...

except if you need to turn fast like in slalom or maybe derby...

my boots are size 11 and i have a 11 plate with 190mm between the trucks.

but well, people use what they like and have habbits so...

i think your front wheels are too much on the rear ...and your foot naturally don't like this like when you walk...contact patch too muxh on the rear of your foot.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 03:07 PM   #8
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20180219_202631 by Austin Mohrfeld, on Flickr

It almost looks like the Right Skate has more wheel showing on the left side of the picture vs the right side of the picture, and the Left Skate looks like there is an equal amout of wheel on each side. By any chance did you mount the right skate?

So

How about better pictures from directly over the skates, why?
The wheels should show equally on both sides, and if the right skate plate was improperly placed, well that would make them skate differently.

As far as rear wheel placement...as long as the rear axle is behind the outer ankle bone, even one mm, there's no problem with balance as far as falling over backwards, you have to try skating with the axle just behind the outer ankle bone to understand, so try.
As far as the front axle, for speed skating at or in front of the point that the big and index toes join, some have it out at the big toe knuckle. Speed skaters prefer shorter plates and push them forward, many have the rear axle in front of the outer ankle bone (don't lean back.)
Most factory mounts put the front axle under the front ball of the foot, and art skates "require" it under the front ball of the foot, rather a pity, moving it forward a bit adds stability and speed, but to each their own.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 05:26 PM   #9
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But I hate short plates myself I got plenty of agility. Never limited by the plates, only by the grip available on the floor.
This is a tricky statement, and depends a lot on the skater. When I first got my short forward skates, I did not have a lot of agility. WITH the skates, I got tons. Fast forward 7 years of fun skating, and I forget my skates. I skate rentals only to discover *I* now have agility. I could now make a long plate rental skate sing and manuever. I no longer depend just on my little sports car short plate for agility. I, the skater now have it. So, it depends on the skater.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 05:31 PM   #10
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my boots are size 11 and i have a 11 plate with 190mm between the trucks.
Yeah. As a contrast, I am a 10.5, and my 2 skate plates are 168 and 167mm short forward.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 10:29 PM   #11
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So far I have found that the shorter the plate, the more sensitive they are to mistuning. I was always fiddling and adjusting my trucks with plates around 7 inches. Moving up to around 8 inches of plate length has just about eliminated all that. I may make 2 cushion adjustments at most in a session now
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Old February 20th, 2018, 11:46 PM   #12
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Height of heel also messes with the axle placements for the right "feel"
I came to that conclusion last night after playing with some different boots. Actually the plates are different so I think that is having an impact also: deck height and geometry.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 11:55 PM   #13
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Ursle:
Left/Right mount is exactly where I want it. Both skates are good. The picture perspective is off.

Lloyd:
Tuning and plate geometry may have a lot to do with it. The last time I switched from the right plate to the left, It felt like I was going from a Miata to a tank.

The right plate is a Roll Line and while it is more agile and controlled it also has some stability issues due to the height and larger cushions. It is still way better then any other plate in its price range, but has issues nonetheless.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 06:30 AM   #14
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But I'm finding the sacrifice in comfort is not worth the added maneuverability.
If you're going to master a short forward mount, you have to commit completely until you reprogram your brain. No runnin' home to mama.

The picture doesn't tell the whole story I'm sure, but it does tell something. The skate on the right, the plate is too far back. That's why it doesn't feel right. The axles are in a completely different place as compared to the left skate. And to exacerbate the problem, the right plate is actually a good bit shorter. I suspect you knew all that.

So the reason they behave so differently is because they're built so differently. There ya go, broke the code.

Try mounting the plates on the right skates with the front axles in the same location relative to the ball of your foot as the ones on the left skate. You'll have to study it, as the boots are different and your foot will sit in each one differently. Let the back axle fall where it falls.

Now, initially, you'll be a little tippy to the rear, so adjust your posture slightly. Biggest thing with short forward is that you cannot get lazy and slouch or your skates will shove your heart up into your throat to remind you. That will only happen once or twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
Somehow moving the front wheel backwards makes me feel less stable at the heel when skating backwards. Completely counter-intuitive.
Think about it for a minute. You're turned around backwards, more weight is over the front axle, which is farther back than your other skates. What do you think is happening at the heel?

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Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
Left/Right mount is exactly where I want it. Both skates are good.
Exactly perfect. Except...

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Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
The right plate is a Roll Line and while it is more agile and controlled it also has some stability issues
Skates don't have stability issues, skaters do.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 06:32 AM   #15
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So far I have found that the shorter the plate, the more sensitive they are to mistuning.
The shorter the plate, the more sensitive they are. Period.
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Old February 21st, 2018, 01:26 PM   #16
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The shorter the plate, the more sensitive they are. Period.
Yeah, it's like the sweet spot is much smaller and harder to hit on a short plate.
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