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Old May 22nd, 2017, 10:09 AM   #1
Oicusk82huh
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Default Kingpin angles

Hi guys. I'm trying to incorporate everything from slalom/freestyle to quads. Without a doubt the thing I enjoy the most on quads are the EDGES!!! Currently on Powerdyne Rival plates.

I loosened my trucks, but feel I could still use some more room to play.
A guy at my rink was attempting to convince me that I needed a kingpin angle of 45%, but I think I may disagree. I think I may start with softer cushions/bushings.

Here's what I found on plates.

https://www.doublethreatskates.co.uk...lates-in-brief

What's your experiences? My hero slalom quad skater uses the roll line Matrix. Do you have any experience with those? I'm not jumping into anything, but now that I'm really loving it, I'm just curious about everyone's experiences.
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 01:30 PM   #2
ursle
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Actually, the placement of the front axle will determine how a plate acts, be it a five degree plate or a d/a45 (30 degre plate), I like to use the point between the big toe and the index toe as a point of reference, the front ball of the foot is an inch or an inch in a half of area.
So..if the front axle is at the point between the index and big toe it's quite forward, great for speed, not as much ability to easily turn or tip the plate, very stable.
Now as you move it back the skate becomes les stabley but turns easier, a factory mounted plate will put the front axle an inch more or less behind the junction of the big and index toes, maximum turning, minimum stability.
Rear axle placement depends on the discretion of the skater, plate length is at the discretion of the user, shorter distances between axles make for smaller turns and less overall weight.

The roll line matrix is a 20-22 degree king pin, the rest of the roll line plates are 18 degrees, you might check out the Snyder advantage, its 18 degrees available with lots of titanium and parts are easy to come by, but first you have to decide if you want to give up the stability of a 5 or 10 degree plate, or to be specific, have you developed the skill to do slalom on an 18-22 degre king pin plate. In the meantime, softer cushions are a great start, and why not move your front axle around, the only thing you need to know is where to place the plate in relation to being centered under the foot, a great read is Dave VanBelleghem's page, unfortunately all I have is the name, none of the links work, but a search of his name should turn up something, I know I've posted the whole article here on the log several times.

determining the centerline:
After you remove your old plate there should be an indentation of where it was. You may use this as a guide to find the centerline for your new plates, but don’t go at it blindly because sometimes those are wrong. The center line refers to an imaginary line from the heel to the toe, more or less up
and down in the center of the boot, distinguishing the outside half from the inside half.
To find the center line, first mark
the middle of the heel, in back. Then find the widest part of the boot, around the ball of the foot, and mark the midpoint there. Another way to mark
the front center point is to put the boot on and find the point in between your second and third toe, then mark that spot. Draw a line across those points, from the heel to the toe. Use this as
a guide for the centering of your plate. When you do mount your plate, the front of the plate should not point to the exact middle or apex of the front, but more between the second and third toes.
Fig. 4: Right boot with plate pointed slightly outward, approximately between the second and third toes.
With centered mount placement, after all is said and done, when you look straight down at your skates you should have about just as much front wheel sticking out on each side. You shouldn’t see a bunch of wheel sticking out on the left nor on the right, about equal.
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Old May 22nd, 2017, 06:13 PM   #3
BigFoot
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Ursle gave the best, complete answer.

That was a good brief by Double Threat Skates. I would add that your choice of plate material - nylon, aluminum, magnesium, titanium – will change the weight of your skates, and that could affect quickness when you slalom or freestyle. However, their best point was, "a plate will never replace good old fashioned hard work and practice." How true, how true.

I got confused when they describe KP angles as “steep” and “strict.” To me, a “steep angle" is something near-vertical, like 10⁰ or 12⁰. I have never heard of a “strict angle." I think “wide angle" is a better term for 30⁰ or 45⁰. ...But hey, they show the angles in degrees, so just follow the numbers. Sometimes you need to translate Brit-speak, like when they say, “Oh, that’s quite good,” when they actually mean, “that is awful.”
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 08:29 AM   #4
Oicusk82huh
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Default COUGH!!!!! Price.......

Cough, gasp, jaw drop! I'm so out of my league here, it's not even acceptable.

So the Roll Line Matrix is a measly $880.00 and the Snyder Advantage is around $400.00.

By no means of the imagination will I ever be THAT good. I've been doing just fine going through cones on my stock Riedells. I'll go with the cushions for now. Not sure about playing with my plate just yet.

I looked up Dave VanBellegham's page with instructions, but the server can't find it.

I'll also play with my trucks some more, and experiment with friends skates. How loose do you guys go with trucks?
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 10:08 AM   #5
Oicusk82huh
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Any comments on these? Specs states 20degree action.

http://www.derbywarehouse.com/Crazy_...cpage-CSV.html
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 12:06 PM   #6
fierocious1
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Default Most will tell you it makes no difference

what the angle is. In most cases it is probably true. Cushion changes help to get the skates adjusted to your skill level. But DA45 allow more adjustments that pertain to changing input/output ratio, quickening or slowing down the steering action. This is not the same as a cushion change.
Cushions dampen twitchy handling, they make the skates controllable to your level of skill. DA45 plates kingpin angle as well as the new true 45 degree kingpin plates, promote being able to slow or speed up steering. Cushion changes and shimming are the not the same thing.
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Old May 23rd, 2017, 04:55 PM   #7
ursle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Cough, gasp, jaw drop! I'm so out of my league here, it's not even acceptable.

So the Roll Line Matrix is a measly $880.00 and the Snyder Advantage is around $400.00.

By no means of the imagination will I ever be THAT good. I've been doing just fine going through cones on my stock Riedells. I'll go with the cushions for now. Not sure about playing with my plate just yet.

I looked up Dave VanBellegham's page with instructions, but the server can't find it.

I'll also play with my trucks some more, and experiment with friends skates. How loose do you guys go with trucks?

I like to tighten the king pin up until I can turn the cushion but it's not loose, with the quality of cushions, meaning no more rock hard ones, getting a soft duro cushion and snugging it up to the point that it just turns keeps everything in place with no lose snapping (metal fatigue) gong on.
Used plates, high quality used plates are perfectly good, and replacement parts are easily at hand.
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Old May 27th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #8
amohrfeld
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Any comments on these? Specs states 20degree action.

http://www.derbywarehouse.com/Crazy_...cpage-CSV.html
A girl I know has the Crazy plates. She likes them. They are a good choice for the $200 price point. They are really light too. But you have to deal with the limitations: The king pin thread is coarse (I think). This leads to less precision when tightening cushions. Also the pivot pin is not adjustable. And the pivot cup is plastic. At that price point most people chose the Avenger.

http://www.derbywarehouse.com/Sure-G...e-AVENMAG.html

But it depends on your goals. Do you want more stability or turnability?
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Old May 29th, 2017, 01:52 AM   #9
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I would say the wheels and the profiles of them are more important than the plate, as well as the boots used.

You need something that has the right support in a boot and the right lip for edging.

I can literally take my skate from "squirrely" to "hard to carve" by switching only the wheels.

Most of the time you can increase or decrease steering to any desired level if the wheels and the boots are up to the task. Plates really dont mean half of what people think they do.

Sure, cheaper plates may break though, so spend enough there to get by. As for length..., where do you like to pivot on bare feet? Those are your main balance points and axle locations would be good to start there at a minimum wheelbase until you dial in on more specialized setups.

IIRC, slalom skaters using quads do 1 of 2 things.

1 have a super turny setup, such as 45 deg and soft cushions

Or

2 have a rather tight setup , with a low kingpin angle with hard cushions to create a more inline like result, where the wheels stay put and can be rolled over onto the lips of the wheels without worry of the trucks swining much on thier geometric lines.

Your bodys flexibility, strengths, and weaknesses will tend to guide you to what is better for you.
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Old May 29th, 2017, 05:40 AM   #10
rufusprime99
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Default You want EDGES?

.... I'll give you stinkin' edges.

DA45, preferably with a short forward mount. Much Fun.

This review is about the old White Mag Sure Grip plates, but applies to other SG 45 degree plates. (The king pin angle is actually 30 degree. But the action, action angle, is 45)

http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/...ad.php?t=26533

Live, Breathe, Skate 45. SG 45's have delrin pivot cups, a la Roll Line, adjustable pivot pins, for correct setup, and are under $200. Short forward mount maximizes the agility, *BUT*, creates a skate you must stay on top of. No relaxing. (Well, I can relax. But I have been on them since 2010. No relaxing for the first 6 months) Somewhat demanding. Too demanding?? Dunno. Depends on skill level.

4 levels of urethane cushions. Purple, standard, gives a lot of turning. Red, hardest, stiffens things up. Yellow, a little easier to turn than purple, and blue, the most turn. Well, actually, not MORE turn, but just faster, easier to get to.
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