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Slalom Cone Skating Forum Discussions about slalom cone skating, high-jump, and other freestyle trick skating. (Note that vert, street, and park skating discussions should be posted in our aggressive skating forum.)

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Old April 28th, 2015, 11:48 PM   #21
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Am I going to completely loose my mind trying to find time for all three?
It might actually work out well for you. If you're not feeling it one day on one particular type of skate, then you can just switch to one of the other two types. You might even find it enjoyable comparing and contrasting which techniques translate well from one type of skate to another, and which techniques absolutely do not.

One word of warning: I know several established inliners who decided to try quads. All of them went through exactly the same experience. They all said that while they really enjoyed skating on quads, doing so totally screwed up their inline skating ability. One (very accomplished) slalomer was freaking out and said that she had lost the ability to do everything except the absolute basics on inlines. Another friend of mine said that after skating quads, going back to inlines made him feel sick (literally). The side-to-side motion from balancing on thin inlines wheels, coupled with the wobbling back and forth (due to the banana rockered setup that he has on his inlines) was giving him motion sickness that he'd never had before.

Needless to say, they all got over it The only reason they were panicking was because their bodies had not yet got used to the idea of having to adapt stance and technique (because they never had to make any such adjustments before when they were only skating on one type of skate). However, after about a week of regularly switching back and forth, their inline skills fully returned and they could skate either type of skate to their full potential without even thinking about it.

I just thought I'd mention this because it could be quite disconcerting if something similar were to happen to you and you thought you'd suddenly lost 25 years of your inline skills for good. If there's anything that would further destroy your inline mojo, it would be something like that.

Although ice skating is more similar to inlines than quads, I suspect that there will still be significant differences. So that fact that you're already switching between different ice and inlines may mean that you won't require the same adjustment period that my friends did who had only ever skated one type of skate. There's also the fact that you did skate quads prior to starting inlines, so you're probably much less likely to be affected.




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Oh yeah, one last question. I have noticed many people in the UK using those hard cover quad skates. What kind of skates are those?
They're basically copies of old-school ice hockey boots.

Like several other countries, the UK reached its peak of quad skating in the late 1970s and early 1980s. However, with land space being so limited on a small-ish island (and therefore extremely expensive), rinks were very few and far between. As an example, London (despite being huge and one of the major capital cities of the world) does not have one single roller rink.

This complete lack of rinks meant that the UK did not get the rink culture that the US has, and consequently the skate equipment that was generally available here was basically just trashy junk. Adult skaters therefore started looking to put together their own skates. There were already a few high end roller skates that were essentially ice figure skating boots on wheels, but because of the urban street skate culture that had developed in the UK (due to there being nowhere else to skate) Art / Figure boots did not fit in that style (they were considered to be too feminine and "ice dancey"). With no other decent skates available, people looked to another type of ice skate; the ice hockey boot. Ice hockey was perceived to be about speed, agility and aggression, so they suited the street style that was developing here around 1980.

People therefore started taking the blades off ice hockey boots and attaching plates to them instead. It became so popular that even when other types of skates did finally start to become available (still in small numbers) people would rather have ice hockey boots because that's what they'd seen their favourite skaters wearing. It then just seemed to stick as a UK thing, and it's been going ever since.

The reason for the plastic hard shells (with the padded liner boots) is because that's what ice hockey boots were like in the early 1980s. Nearly all hockey boot manufacturers got rid of their stitched leather hockey boots and switched over to moulded plastic ones with a liner (which were considered to be high-tech and futuristic at the time). One of the most prominent brands was Bauer. Years later when ice hockey boot manufacturers switched back to stitched boots (but now using advanced composite materials) the moulded boot thing had become so embedded in the UK street-skate psyche that they stuck with it regardless, paying ever more crazy prices for old discontinued plastic boots that were no longer being made. The trend became so big that even Bauer noticed, and for a few years they actually started shipping their plastic ice hockey boots to the UK, but already fitted with roller base plates and wheels (because Bauer knew what people were doing with their skates). This didn't last for very many years because it was only a UK thing, and the numbers shrank dramatically once the inline craze hit in the 90s. Suddenly quads were considered clunky and old fashioned.

These days there are a few Chinese companies that have stepped in to fill the void (because there is still huge demand for that type of skate in the UK). These companies basically copied the old Bauer moulded boot design of the 80s and made a cheap contemporary equivalent. They sell loads of them seeing as there are no other genuine ice hockey boots made in plastic any more.

http://www.monarchsports.co.uk/pro_c...white%20MS.jpg

A few UK quad street skaters are now migrating to the latest stitched / composite ice hockey boot designs, because they're much lighter, breathable etc. while retaining a similar aesthetic and still providing good ankle support for aggressive skating, jumps, street hockey etc. However, the new stitched boots are nowhere near as comfortable as those with the padded liner (especially the toe cap, which can be downright agony to do toe moves in)

https://www.olisskateshop.co.uk/imag...es-500x500.jpg

With the resurgence of quads in recent years, we now have increasing numbers (but still relatively few) who now skate on decent "proper" roller skates (e.g. Bont, Riedell etc.) This is simply because things like YouTube allows UK skaters to see what skaters in other countries wear, and online shops allow easy purchasing of skate gear from abroad. Neither of these things were available in the 1980s, which is why the UK skate scene developed in its own bubble, separate to what other countries were doing skate-wise at the time.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 03:00 PM   #22
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Quadster gets my vote for best post of 2015 here. Awesome hit on the UK history and how simple YouTube videos has changed skating for so many people.

Ha imagine that, after routinely switching back and forth they learned to differentiate between the 2? Who knew? . Just goes to show that overspecialization breeds weakness.
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Old April 29th, 2015, 07:49 PM   #23
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Ha imagine that, after routinely switching back and forth they learned to differentiate between the 2? Who knew? . Just goes to show that overspecialization breeds weakness.
You should have heard how panicked they were! lol.

These were all separate and unrelated instances, but for some reason they all just assumed that their inline ability would automatically be there without them having to do anything to "reactivate" it after having got used to skating on quads.

It does seem kinda embarrassingly obvious when you spell it out the way you did, haha.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 06:24 AM   #24
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You should have heard how panicked they were! lol.

These were all separate and unrelated instances, but for some reason they all just assumed that their inline ability would automatically be there without them having to do anything to "reactivate" it after having got used to skating on quads.

It does seem kinda embarrassingly obvious when you spell it out the way you did, haha.
Well ya know... I've been there. I could quad skate when I was a kid. Switched to inlines, rolled some quads years later at a birthday party at the roller rink. Could not for the life of me skate in those damn quads. I was "an inliner". I had the EXACT attitude of all the other SLF naysayers'. That whole "you can't learn both at the same time" BULL.

Well years passed before ever getting back on quads. Then my daughter got a set of quads from my sis as a present. Kind of just fell into her lap and she figured my kid could learn to skate. Well I had inlines and no quads so teaching her movements across the pond so to speak was very hard. Bought some quads,, same skate she had. A Carrera skate. Developed those quad skills and inline skils, skated both off and on as needed for teaching her and for myself hauling arse in my inlines. I learned within a couple weeks to completely differentiate between the 2 because I took the time to analyze my movements and KNOW what my body is doing, not just have a gross reaction.

This training I put myself through has made me a better skater and able to tune into much more subtle movements. Combined with learning alot about skating by teaching it to my daughter, I'm WORLDS better than I was about 3 years ago.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 09:53 AM   #25
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Quadster, I'd definitely second that vote for "best post 2015." So many incredible UK skaters, couldn't help but notice the unique skates, and the story behind them makes them even more fascinating.

3 days later....mojo's back! Many thanks!
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Old April 30th, 2015, 09:57 AM   #26
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Oh sh*t, one more important question. If I got outdoor wheels on the quads, would that affect my indoor skating? I want to keep within a budget, so for now will only go with one set of wheels.

Which ones would you guys recommend?
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Old April 30th, 2015, 11:45 AM   #27
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I learned within a couple weeks to completely differentiate between the 2 because I took the time to analyze my movements and KNOW what my body is doing, not just have a gross reaction.
Even though I have only ever skated one type of skate, I can totally relate to this.

There are some slalom tricks (that I learned a while back) that each required very different techniques. I would often struggle with one or the other when switching between them. This was mainly because I was trying to do what I thought the move required, rather than analysing the move and figuring out what was actually required (which often turned out to be the complete opposite of what I was trying to do).

However, I soon learned what these two moves had in common, as well as where they differed from each other. I listened to my body and let the moves dictate what was needed, rather than me imposing my own idea based on how I expected the move "should" work.

This ended up making both moves better.
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Old April 30th, 2015, 12:22 PM   #28
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3 days later....mojo's back! Many thanks!
That's good to hear

I'm in a pretty good place skate-wise too. I just did a personal best in the latest slalom trick that I've been working on. It's by far the most difficult move that I've ever done; and for quite a while I was not sure whether it was even possible to do it on quads at all.

Well, know I know that it is!



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If I got outdoor wheels on the quads, would that affect my indoor skating? I want to keep within a budget, so for now will only go with one set of wheels.
That obviously depends on many factors, not least what you mean by "affected".

Of course, it can be done easily enough, but whether you'd enjoy it depends on your expectations.

Here in the UK, the vast majority of people skate 78a wheels all the time (even on the occasions when they skate indoors). Their skate technique has developed accordingly, and there is no perceived downside or disadvantage because that's pretty much what everyone else skates too. However, in the US it's a totally different story. The abundance of rinks means that much harder wheels are the norm, so expectations for speed and extended roll are much higher, plus you'll be at a relative disadvantage if everyone else in the rink is skating wheels that are better suited for indoors than your wheels are.

If you don't mind pushing harder, and you're not sloppy with your technique (so that the grippy wheels don't grab during transitions and send you flying), then soft outdoor wheels will be perfectly fine, but by no means optimal.

You might be better off going for more of an all-round 'hybrid' wheel rather than a dedicated outdoor wheel. If you get something with a duro in the mid 80s (instead of 78a) then it will be less of a compromise indoors. How hard you go will obviously depend on how good the outdoor surfaces are where you live.

I've skated 84a Poisons outdoors and they were fine, but my Aussie Scotts (which are supposedly 85a) are real bone shakers on rough surfaces (despite being a similar duro to the Poisons), although my Scotts do work great on smooth tarmac / asphalt.

Last edited by Quadster; April 30th, 2015 at 08:51 PM.
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Old May 2nd, 2015, 07:50 AM   #29
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When I rented old quads the trucks/frame(?) was really loose. It was good because I had manueverabiltiy. Then I borrowed a kids skates and they were like 20$ skates, but the frame was tight. I'm not sure if it was just because they were new.

What I mean by tight is that I could not move them freely enough for criss-crossing around without wheels coming off the floor (they were high boots). If I did cross them it took alot of effort

What mean by loose, is that I could easily move them for crisscroosing and all wheels stayed on the ground without much effort. By loose I mean good but I'm not sure that I'm referring to it in the right way.

I checked on those DA45 frames that Armadillo was referring to and they look awesome. I wonder if that's what I'm trying to explain above.

Another question is I notice that there is a hole for the toe stop. Are toe stop holes univeral size, like would a jam plug fit in that spot?

One more question, (for Quadster) and sorry if it's getting old, those hockey quads....what's up with the super-size toe stop. Can you take those out and replace them, do you know?

Thanks
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Old May 3rd, 2015, 07:09 AM   #30
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Forget all those questions. Tonight I rented a crappy pair of quads and I tore it up!!! I ordered a pair of skates that a rhythm/jam skater recommended (we have similar style and moves). I'll take it from there with frame and wheels. Thanks all for so much great advice.

Slalom moves are different but really fun on quads. My quad friends that always tell me I can only do certain moves because I'm on inline skates were super shocked when I could do almost all those moves on quads. I feel great.

Do you guys think quads go faster than inlines?
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Old May 3rd, 2015, 11:26 AM   #31
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No . But they're more fun .
Btw.: http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24188
(The link I posted there to my thread in the French forum is helpful, I think)
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Old May 3rd, 2015, 12:01 PM   #32
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Forget all those questions. Tonight I rented a crappy pair of quads and I tore it up!!! I ordered a pair of skates that a rhythm/jam skater recommended (we have similar style and moves). I'll take it from there with frame and wheels. Thanks all for so much great advice.

Slalom moves are different but really fun on quads. My quad friends that always tell me I can only do certain moves because I'm on inline skates were super shocked when I could do almost all those moves on quads. I feel great.

Do you guys think quads go faster than inlines?
Awesome!

Haha you showed their asses eh? With super tight suspension on a quad the trucks become stable and you can use the lip of the wheels easier. This allows the quad to cut like the inline can. Its all in the skaters abilities.

As for being faster... No. My inlines are very much faster than my quads. Though this has to do with more than just wheel size. Frame alignments on inlines are practically "toed in" when compared to quad skates. This in itself changes the rate of stride cadence. Also inlines tend to have a longer effective stride than quads before grip isn't there. Longer strides increase the time you have to accelerate your foot in the stride. And as you lean the inline over it also turns slightly against the arc of your stride.

Wheel size is like extra roll. Not so much extra speed. The frame alignment and how far forward the front wheel is makes a bigger difference. Bigger wheels on inlines are faster, but its not "because it's bigger it's better/faster".

My quads have a "toed in" stance when compared to most other people's quads. I also have a very long plate. This pushes the axle forward and helps make the skate faster. It's close to my inlines speed... But no cigar.

That being said there's a lot of people with inlines on that will never catch me in my quads. But if I raced myself... There's no way my quad speed will ever beat my inline speed
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Old May 8th, 2015, 04:18 AM   #33
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One more question, (for Quadster) and sorry if it's getting old, those hockey quads....what's up with the super-size toe stop. Can you take those out and replace them, do you know?
Those toe stops are completely removable, they just unscrew. They can be replaced with smaller toe stops or jam plugs (if required).

As I said in my first post in this thread, I took off my toe stops on the first day that I started skating, and I've not replaced them with anything ever since. Most good skaters do the same (they don't use jam plugs either) they basically just treat the base plate as if it were an NTS plate. It's usually only beginners and less experienced skaters that use toe stops, and in those cases they tend to cut the toe stops right down to about ⅓ of their original length.

Next week I'm going on my first international skate trip. I'm flying to mainland Europe to skate for a few days with this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_JlS1dRgTI (Alex).

I'll also be skating with the Infamous Skating Couple, Brian BFunk, Ralf Jam Boogie and others.

It should be good fun.
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Old May 8th, 2015, 03:16 PM   #34
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Guys got some hella nice footwork. Actually makes me want to get some cones. I wonder what his skates setup is , boot and what size, plate type and size, cushion hardness and wheel size/hardness. I don't think my skates can turn that well lol. I can make it do some crazy stuff at high speeds but not that! (least I don't think so)

Definitely an inspiring video, makes me want to tour Europe with a backpack and my skates! House is paid off in 3 years! Ha!
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Old May 8th, 2015, 03:34 PM   #35
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Guys got some hella nice footwork.
That video was from 5 years ago, so he's even better than that now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
I wonder what his skates setup is, boot and what size, plate type and size, cushion hardness and wheel size/hardness.
I'll ask him when I see him next week.


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I don't think my skates can turn that well lol. I can make it do some crazy stuff at high speeds, but not that!
I do much more difficult moves than he does in this video, but I am WAAAAAY slower. I'm nowhere near the speeds that he gets.
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Old May 19th, 2015, 12:30 AM   #36
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Guys got some hella nice footwork. Actually makes me want to get some cones. I wonder what his skates setup is , boot and what size, plate type and size, cushion hardness and wheel size/hardness. I don't think my skates can turn that well lol. I can make it do some crazy stuff at high speeds but not that! (least I don't think so)

Definitely an inspiring video, makes me want to tour Europe with a backpack and my skates!
Hi Mort, I've just got back home from my 5 day skate trip to the Netherlands where I skated with Alex (the guy in the video above) for 2 days. He is an amazing talent, as well as being a really lovely guy.

I asked him about his skate set-up and he said that he uses Risport boots, Roll-Line Matrix plates with firm cushions (sorry, I forgot to ask him what duro cushions) and 62mm 78a slim wheels (around 34mm width) with a rounded outside edge profile. I asked him whether he had a preference for wheel brand and he said "not really". The wheel dimensions, profile shape and hardness seemed to be his main priority rather than any particular manufacturer's type of urethane. That may possibly be because he usually skates outdoors.

He said that he doesn't have his truck action cranked down quite as tightly as the French skaters do, but it's still pretty tight because he requires stability. He went on to say that he has the technique and ability to exert sufficient pressure / force to enable his skates to still turn sharply (because he uses high boots that allows leverage from his lower leg, rather than trying to steer from the soles of his feet). He said that a loose, turny action would be completely counter-productive for his style and speed of skating because it would prevent him from using the exaggerated body and leg lean that is fundamental to his style of skating.
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Old May 19th, 2015, 12:39 AM   #37
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Oh, and here is a photo of his skates taken on Sunday.

--

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Old May 19th, 2015, 08:16 AM   #38
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You can't beat a well loved skate! (points and laughs). Shark accident?

That skater is SOOOO INCREDIBLE.

I ended up ordering a high boot as well. I think that part of growing is trying different things and seeing how they work. I was gonna start thinking about softer wheels, but first thing's first, gotta get them first. (sooooo excited)!!!

On a different note. I started snowboarding last year. EASIET sport I've ever learned. For the longest time I couldn't figure out what made the transition from slalom skating to snowboarding so similar. I kept telling people, but they were like, "okay wierdo."

So I just figured out what it is. It's backward nelson!!!!!! SNOWBOARDING IS BACKWARD NELSON ALL THE WAY (or forward nelson non-dominant foot). Anyhoo, I just had that "ah ha" moment. Thought I'd share.

Can't wait for those quad skate
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Old May 19th, 2015, 11:20 AM   #39
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Thanks for the info Quadster. His setup makes complete sense for what we saw him do in the videos.

I'm the same in I prefer some wheel shapes, not so much manufacturers making me side on their urethane formulation.
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Old May 19th, 2015, 08:26 PM   #40
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I'm the same in I prefer some wheel shapes ...
Me too (although I must admit, I am somewhat choosy about my urethane compounds).

Funnily enough, my preferred wheel properties turned out to be almost exactly the same as Alex's. Just like him I prefer a slim wheel (~34mm), in a soft grippy compound, with a curved outer edge. The only difference between Alex's preference and mine is that I'd rather use a 65mm to 67mm diameter wheel instead of 62mm (although I do often use 62mm simply because certain wheel brands don't provide any larger option).

Finding a wheel that has most of the properties that I'm looking for is a nightmare. Many of the better quality wheels are either rock hard, ridiculously wide, or have severe right-angled outer edges. I therefore decided that the only way to get anywhere near what I wanted was to get some wheels customised to my own requirements.

I worked on various approaches with a friend of mine who has a lathe, and now I can choose pretty much any wheel on the market and have it modified to suit my needs.

Here an example of my DOTDs before and after modification





and here are some 78a SureGrip Motions that I retro-fitted with Aussie Scott hubs




My dream wheel would be a 67mm Rollerbones Day of the Dead wheel (properly scaled up on a larger hub, not just a thicker tyre) in 82a durometer, 35mm width, with a fully rounded outer edge (approx. 8.5mm radius)

But that's never gonna happen.
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