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Slalom Cone Skating Forum Discussions about slalom cone skating, high-jump, and other freestyle trick skating. (Note that vert, street, and park skating discussions should be posted in our aggressive skating forum.)

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Old January 11th, 2012, 03:00 AM   #1
Inl9r
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Default Skipping FR1/Highs for iGoR/Trix???

Hi there!
I've ordered a High Deluxe (size38) a few months back and to my utter frustration, I haven't got them yet! Looking at the profile of the various people here, I notice that most has a pair or two of Highs/FRs/Twisters etc and from there moved to carbon fiber integrated liner skates like Evo/iGoR/KSJs.

Now looking back at my situation, I think I should skip that High Deluxe purchase and go str8 for the Trix or iGoR (or KSJ, Jipe) as I already have my 'customary' Twister. I ordered my High within 4 months of coming back to skating after many many years as I bought them like 2 sizes too big.

I want an all purpose skate but a step up from the FR1 so I seem to fit into the Trix target market. Since Trix is also cheaper than the slalom dedicated KSJ and technically the same, I would only consider iGoR as an alternative. I like the rockered frame but iGoR will come with 76mm wheels for my size, not really optimum for street. With Trix I can get the 80 which will be sweet!

So guys, shall I skip the High and go carbon? Every self respecting skater here seems to have a pair of highs stashed away somewhere hehe.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #2
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People who have upgraded to "unibody" skates from Twisters or Highs in general love their new skates. Me complaining about iGors on the other thread is a very rare case. To make long story short, I would say if Trix (or KSJ/iGor) are a good fit for you, go for them. I think iGor has the same or similar shell shape as the other two, but it is higher/stiffer and you can use the carbon cuff, depends how much flex/support you prefer.

That does not mean that using anything less than a carbon shell skate is a tragedy, Highs or Carbons can get you very far. It seems to me a lot of top level skaters only upgraded to KSJ/iGor in 2011 (for example Polina Semenova and Marina Boyko... I might be totally wrong but I think Marina looked a bit more stable in her smurf FRs than in KSJ and in some interview she is saying that FR was a lot more comfortable to her than High so you can see that in the end what matters most is how well the skate fits you...)

What do you consider an allaround skate? We were making a 100km trip on skates with friends, and I mounted a longer frame on my Highs and came home without blisters. Could you do it on iGor/KSJ? I guess that is individual, but in general the soft liner of Highs/Carbons/FR provides more comfort when skating for longer periods, but results in a heavier and somewhat less precise skate. Also the High liner likes to soak up sweat which again makes it heavier (but a lot of people admit the skate performs at its best when it's not dry Also, in High you can replace your liner (which I had to do after 1 year), but on unibody skates the padding is better quality (the tongue on iGors seems to wear off quickly though from what I heard but those could be isolated cases).

The unibody skate concept is a lot more stiff which is great for precision and it makes technical tricks easier, your heel is better fixed which is good for heel wheelings and of course the reduced weight helps a lot. The level of comfort varies, there are people who can stay in iGors/KSJs all day and absolutely love them, others start to feel some pain after 2-3 hours (and then there's me

Trix shell might be built from cheaper material than KSJ, and not explicitly marketed as a slalom focused boot, but I think more than half of Chinese skaters at WFSC in Germany were using Trix (if I am not terribly mistaken) and they were damn good in them.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 01:10 PM   #3
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as Boris said, the difference is not only about carbon vs. plastic it is about removable liner vs. integrated liner.

The integrated liner makes a huge difference, it uses stiffer/harder/thinner padding, doesn't move with respect to the shell all this makes it a much more accurate boot and it reduces the weight.

The carbon adds some weight reduction on top of that.

If you have the budget, I definitely would go for an integrated liner model.

If you choose the iGor, take the latest model even if you get some discount on the previous model: the inner material (the same as in KSJ and Trix) is much better and wear much less than in the previous model. This is very important for an integrated liner as when the inner is destroyed, you need to replace the whole boot.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:49 PM   #4
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Thanks guys! It makes my decision easier! Been doing major thread digging lately and it seems it's good to have both types of skates with different frame lengths. It's been so hard for me to get hold of a Seba skate lately so I was toying with the idea of getting one for all purposes by just switching frames.

I was thinking if iGoRs fitted me well, I could use shorter frames for tricks, 80mm for street and 90mm for distance! The only problem would be street skating on 80mm wheels or less, some of my teeth fillings might fall out on rough roads! Ideally this would be best served on FR1 Deluxe with those nice frames and Balance liners. <Boris, you should give Balance liners a try when your High liners wear out again>

Skating on the 273mm Deluxe frames on MPC Streetfights are really good! Not bumpy, really smooth as the wheels can glide over most obstacles and you can ride fast and remain fast quite effortlessly as the roll is so good compared to 80s. But the wheels are heavy, frames not so much, so it makes non-unibody/non-carbon skates really heavy. I think it'll still be comfortable with unibody skates if you use good wheels.

So, I think I'll get both a High and a Trix or an FR1 with a KSJ/iGoR
Thanks again guys! Now, I have to go hunting for those skates!
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Old January 12th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #5
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I never quite understood the idea behind 90mm being the best setup for the streets. I was skating like that for a short while on RB-8 skates, but later on I bought a Twister frame and found out that banana rockering and shorter frame length is great for the city because you can react a lot quicker to the unexpected, avoid obstacles... Generally you are more maneuverable which seems to me like a thing you really need especially if you are in hilly areas and occasionally find yourself in a crowd of people. Also, if you are skating on rougher surface then with rockering it's easier to just ride through the minor bumps instead of having to jump over.

Over time, you will find that slalom practice gives your legs a lot more confidence and you will be able to skate over things that seemed rough before. Also through practice your reflexes will improve and you'll be able to "read" the terrain in front of you... Well just my opinion, before you invest in 3 frame sizes
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Old January 13th, 2012, 02:14 AM   #6
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It largely depends on where you live. Haven't found anywhere safe to skate in the city here except in residential areas and jogging paths in parks. Most of our roads here are not pedestrian friendly and pavements are not level/smooth narrow with posts/signs sticking out in the middle. Too many scooters and cars, I just don't feel safe! Too hazardous!

My Twister frame is rockered 80/76 and roads here can be so rough that the wheels just won't roll! My feet get numb as well. Compared to the streets in Paris or Barcelona, it's such a vast difference. I believe if you skate on 80mm wheels or less, you won't last long on unibody skates here. Except for a small heel pad on the Twisters, theres hardly any cushion in it's liners. I can imagine skating in Trix or iGoRs to be more comfortable though!

Rockered street skating here is challenging, I was floored recently going backwards and hitting a pebble big enough to stop me dead on my track! I find that only with 90mm wheels I get a good roll. I could skate in the dark. With my rockered setup I have to be constantly staring on the road ahead to avoid all the little booby traps! I don't think 84mm wheels would fare much better. I find that shifting my weight to the back of my 273 frames would enable me to turn sharply on them as well, after some practice. I can do turn stops on 90s but can't beat the rockers!
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Old January 13th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #7
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Rockered frame helps for rough/bad surfaces but also reduce your skating efficiency: you are slower and it is not suited for longer distances. It is only nice to "play" in the city but not more, especially if you have a flat frame and use small wheels like 76mm to make the rocker.

Now for me 90mm is either too big or too small. The real solution for fast city skate is to use 100mm or bigger.

There are two ways to do that

Either to use a short hybrid speed frame, i.e. a 12" 3x100+1x84mm frame which is the most efficient but these frames are difficult to find nowadays (there is the Diabolik 11.93" frame and there was a Mogema 12" M155XR). Some examples:




Another option is to use a 3 wheels 3x100 or 3x110mm frame. Skali likes this setting, below a picture of his city skates:


You can also do it on Seba or Twisters or others (sorry for th picture size, they aren't mine):






A test (in French) of such a skate:
http://www.rollerenligne.com/article...me-110-mm.html

The advantage of the 3x100+1x84 option is that the frame is lower and you have still 4 wheels/contact points. The advantage of the 3 wheels option is that there are frames shorter than 12" and you save the weight of one wheel + bearings.

Last edited by jipe; January 13th, 2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 10:05 AM   #8
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Very interesting Jipe, I should look for the 3 wheel frame when I go to Europe in Mar. Won't 110s be rather tall and tip toeey? Excellent idea! Thanks!
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Old January 13th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inl9r View Post
Very interesting Jipe, I should look for the 3 wheel frame when I go to Europe in Mar. Won't 110s be rather tall and tip toeey? Excellent idea! Thanks!
Both 3x100 and 3x110 are high. The main problem is that the front wheel may hit the front of the boot. The risk increases when the frame is shorter and the boot size bigger.

I prefer the 3x100+1x84mm short frame option which is lower than the 3x100 and gives the efficient push of 4 wheels.

This shop in the Netherlands has still some Mogema 3x100+1x84mm M155XR 12" frame for a cheap price (they normally cost around 250Euro): http://www.stouwdam.nl/tabid/65/iPro...1/default.aspx

Another important point is that lightweight boots are better for such custom skate: Seba High is heavy and not the best. Boots like the Seba Trix and KSJ or Powerslide S3, S4 and HC Evo are the best.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #10
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I like the Powerslide frame best. It looks very cool! The Mogema looks interesting but my maths tell me it's still longer than my 4x90 p I am sure the roll is better!

Cado Motus has a 3x110 called Neo for beginners and kids. Looks frumpy compared to the Powerslide. I'll stick to my 90s for now. I'll try to pair it with a light skate. Thanks!
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Old January 13th, 2012, 03:46 PM   #11
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Jipe, i might add, your setup looks cool!
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Old January 20th, 2012, 06:59 AM   #12
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Seems that the latest Trix have the inserts to mount a classic cuff ?

Below the new skates of a french slalom skater (http://totogt.blogspot.com/p/skates.html) looks like what you are looking for:
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Old January 21st, 2012, 01:46 AM   #13
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Beautiful! Exactly what I wanted!!! Hope I can get hold of one soon! Decided to get a Seba High as well. Need the extra cushion in High for patches of pretty rough roads here. Thanks Jipe!
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Old April 12th, 2013, 12:27 AM   #14
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guys I'm desperate to find such powerslide frame, would you have any idea where I could find them?
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Old April 12th, 2013, 06:24 AM   #15
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Hey,

I'm a bit late to this thread, but thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Personally, I like the Igor for a general-purpose skate. If you were considering Seba High (a skate that I really liked), I don't doubt you'd be even happier with Igor. I really, really liked my Highs, but it's hard to argue that Igor (and KSJ/Trix) are not a superiour skate.

Currently, I ride KSJ, but that is more due to it's cuff. Which better accommodates my recently surgically-repaired ankle. Otherwise, I would prefer the Igor, which I like due to it's impressive stiffness and control (compared to KSJ and other skates I've ridden) and durability. Whether or not you think Igor is the best slalom skate, I do think it's the best all around (street/freestyle/slalom) skate I've ever owned.

Long frames vs. Short frames
=====================
Some disaggree with me on this. However, I prefer shorter frame (rockered) for day-to-day street skating. Even when I do training night skates, I generally like my slalom skates with short/rockered frames. I think a rocker really helps your overall skating style/skill level. Yes, a shorter frame and rocker will decrease your speed a bit, but I still don't feel I have much of a problem keeping up with big frames on a night skate. Yes, for a speed competition, I'll go with 4x20 Bonts, but otherwise, I prefer the additional workout and increased fun of short frames/freestyle skates/rocker. I really do think this combo makes you a much better overall (and even faster, in the long run) skater.

Yes, a longer frame is easier. But if you are looking for the easiest path, then a bike is better than skates. And a car is better than a bike. But if you wish to become the best/strongest skater you can possibly be, then I preffer a freestyle setup. Again, this is just my opinion.
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Old April 17th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #16
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Hello,

I have both High Delux and Igor. I would like to share some of my experiences on both skates for those who may find it helpful:

High - It is like a tank; heavy and very sturdy. After the painful break in, the double liner really conforms and wraps around my foot without any free play. My High is actually one size too big - My skate size is 41 instead of ideal 40, the tip of my toe doesn't really touch the front of the liner. But the fit is still perfect overall.

The High Delux frame is not rocker so rocker effect is achieved through 76/80 wheels. Frame of Igor is naturally rocker so can use all 76mm wheels. Size 40 and above use 80mm wheels. It is less hassle logistically during wheel rotation.

Igor - It is lighter but as sturdy. Break-in is much less painful & shorter. However, the single-layer liner feels harder; the foot is pressed firmly against the skate body. It does not have the wrap around feeling as High. It is also slightly less wide (side to side) than High. The lightness and its slimness does make certain slalom moves easier. As advised by gurus elsewhere in the forum, I had my Igor one size smaller than the ideal High size, so I took size 39. The length is perfect but I find that there is slightly too much room above the toe area, around 5mm more than my ideal. Top of my 2nd & 3rd toe rub against the liner ceiling due to free play and I had blisters. I suspect Igor was modeled with European foot (aka Russian) in mind. I am Asian, that may be the root of the problem.

I typically lace loosely near top @ High, otherwise it is difficult to do certain Slalom moves. The cut-in at rear of the cuff @ Igor allows the skate to be laced much tighter to top holes as compared to High. That cut-in allows the leg to move slightly when tightly laced. But the angle and cutting of the cut-in are too abrupt. It rubes against your flesh (even when I laced loosely like High). As a result, I had minor scars on inner side of my leg due to the constant rubbing at this particular point. This is especially prevalent when doing moves like Double Crazy which requires hard left-right motion.

The ankle buckle of High can rotate, so it can be rotated out of the way when you wear or take off the skates. The ankle buckle of Igor cannot!!! It gets in the way which makes wearing & taking off skates more tedious. I don't understand why Seba did not carry on this obvious plus point - left hand not talking to right hand?

I did try KSJ at store, but did not like the looser ankle support. Since KSJ was modeled after a Korean, I suspect that toe room would be more ideally suited for Asian. If memory serves me, I think KSJ also has single-layer liner.

Hope it helps.
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Old September 24th, 2013, 09:09 AM   #17
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I skated with a 2011-2012 FR1 Deluxe size 39 for about 8 months then I just got the new 2013 iGoRs also size 39.

I have no break-in period for the iGoRs (it's been only a month though), they're very snug and comfortable esp in the heel and ankles. I had approx 6 months break-in for the FR1 Deluxe before I can start to skate more than 2 hrs without any pain.

Everything I read about the iGoRs have been true so far except one tiny detail which I have not read anywhere. The front cuff support for the shin area is lower than the FR1 and since the iGoR's liner tongue is thinner, I cannot really lace the cuff as tight as I can with the FR. I have to bend forwards my shin when determining the optimum lace tightness for the cuff area because lacing them tightly feels like there is a metal wire lace, it's just painful.
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Old November 26th, 2013, 12:07 AM   #18
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Default Seba Skates on Sale for Black Friday Weekend

Hey, some people work asking about purchasing Seba skates on this thread.

Looks like some Seba skates models will be on sale for Black Friday weekend (Friday-Monday).

https://www.facebook.com/sebausa?ref=br_tf

I'm not of details (what retailers are participating, amount of sale, what models on sale). But if you call up or check out the website of your favorite US Seba retailers, hopefully they'll have details soon.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 05:16 PM   #19
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If anyone wants a spare pair of boots, i have a Seba High pair for Sale .
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