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Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

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Old September 17th, 2014, 04:14 AM   #21
Armadillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wawa View Post
These are, for me, the most interesting inlineskate hardboots. And yes the confort is really good, especially if you put a Seba liner

http://rollerquad.net/rollerfr-monta...ion-10k-lazer/
http://rollerquad.net/le-montage-de-rollerboy/
People who design boots such as these, where the ankle is unable to flex laterally because of using the hard shell concept of an inline boot, where it goes stiff for far too high a distance up the ankle, for a QUAD boot design, are mainly demonstrating their ignorance of how quad skates work most effectively.

Quad skates work best when all wheels remain down on the rolling surface.

In order to have good power from your push, your leg thrust needs to be extended a good amount laterally (at 90 degrees to direction of roll) outward from underneath your body.

In order to maintain all wheels down on the rolling surface, AND to have a good power, WIDE push, your quad boot MUST allow your ankle to flex. There is no exception to this rule.

So these boots are only good for skaters who do not want to have a serious power push and keep all four wheels down on the rolling surface.

There certainly may be skaters who can still want this kind of locked in ankle boot design concept, for whatever reasons, but they should not expect to skate at anything close to fast speed.

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Last edited by Armadillo; September 18th, 2014 at 05:17 AM.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 07:24 AM   #22
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I wanted to answer by saying that you were not really open minded, and you judge only by your own way of skating.

But then I founded this old video of myself skating (it was in 2004). It should explain why I choose Roces CDG for years, and why even if you pay me I won't try to do the same with a pair of ridell, antik, bont or whatever !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_2ZS9pIyeo

We're looking for being precise and agile. We're not looking for speed (even if the wheeling in downhill in the second part of the video is quite fast).
We're looking for robust, solid, boots because we skate in the street, when it rains, in the sand and the mud, and so one.

I now use Roces CDG for bowl and downhill (http://rollerquad.net/montage-roces-...ite-backslide/).

if this has nothing to do with outdoor quad skating, just tell me and I won't bother people again
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Old September 17th, 2014, 01:29 PM   #23
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Armadillo, you made me laugh SO hard.

I'm currently using Roces CDG boots for downhill in quads, and believe me, when you are in a curb at more than 50kph, you need something strong to keep control, and my 4 DTC 80mm 38mm contact path wheels need to stay in contact, or I may endure sudden death for my body will end in the ravine.

I used Rollerblade Fusion MX shells for streets free skating in quads as they give full control of your skates, and maybe all YOU do with your skates is push, but when you are dealing with cars on the cobblestones in the middle of Place de l'Etoile (that's where the Arc de Triomphe is), then you need push, but you mainly need control. (And no over sized back mounted plates here : 163mm for my size 10, and mounted forward)

As for push, we sometimes play tag with more than 40 skaters in Paris, and I've been able to stay out of range of some serious inline skaters with these skates. Push is not in your skates, it's in your legs.

The CDG are far more flex than the Fusion, but I totally removed the spoiler on the fusion, so with both boots, I can keep my ankle quite free.

when I'm on a car race track at Le mans 24 or on a quiet cycle way, and just want to get max speed, I skate my ultra light soccer cleats, when I'm outside for some serious freeskate or technical downhill, I take the hard shells, or at leats some very stiff rink hockey or basketball boots.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 05:27 AM   #24
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wawa and JorisKB.

Please note my closing statement:
"There certainly may be skaters who can still want this kind of locked in ankle boot design concept, for whatever reasons, but they should not expect to skate at anything close to fast speed."

You two are obviously in this category, where the type of skating you do, actually does benefit from a style of boot that compromises the best speed skating form, yet still helps a lot with other styles of skating.

That is all fine with me. My criticism of the boot's design was clearly stated as being related to its crippling of a skater's form for reaching maximum potential speed.

If you are rolling down a mountain, then generating speed with your own muscles and an effective leg push is not really so much of a priority, is it?

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Old September 18th, 2014, 09:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
wawa and JorisKB.

Please note my closing statement:
"There certainly may be skaters who can still want this kind of locked in ankle boot design concept, for whatever reasons, but they should not expect to skate at anything close to fast speed."
-Armadillo
I think the main issue is this statement. Not may, there are skaters who not only like these boots design, but whose first priority isn't to skate as fast as possible and who like e.g. hockey boots, artistic skating boots, basketball sneakers, rink hockey boots, etc. for outdoor skating.

Be open minded. Skating is not a question of right or wrong.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 11:27 AM   #26
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Armadillo, all your statement are false.
As said, there ARE.
But, more than that, these boots does not lock your ankle, they give support, but as you don't stiff the spoiler (or you even remove it completely), your ankle remains quite free.

You are very used to speak about things you know nothing about, you should really consider to stop doing that.

If the only thing you can think of is top speed, go skate inline. It won't change your skating style a lot since you already use extra long plates that puts you on rails.
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Old September 19th, 2014, 09:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by JorisKB View Post
Armadillo, all your statement are false.
As said, there ARE.
But, more than that, these boots does not lock your ankle, they give support, but as you don't stiff the spoiler (or you even remove it completely), your ankle remains quite free.

You are very used to speak about things you know nothing about, you should really consider to stop doing that.

If the only thing you can think of is top speed, go skate inline. It won't change your skating style a lot since you already use extra long plates that puts you on rails.
I only had the PIC to use for assessing these boots, not the boots themselves. If the high ankle collar does not provide any stiffness, then what is its purpose? If it does offer stiffness then that will interfere with the needed ankle bend to execute an optimum speed skating wide leg push extension, while keeping all wheels down. My own avatar PIC shows a high ankle setup with very low stiffness, so I am aware that this is possible, especially when lacing is not done all the way up.

I mostly only skate outdoor quad speed, so I admit that I don't evaluate skate stuff from from many other perspectives, but I do try and make this clear when I evaluate things. So, just ignore my assessments if you really don't care so much about the requirements for optimum quad speed.

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Old September 21st, 2014, 02:13 PM   #28
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Default Antik Spyders?

Hey, Sweeney. Some great advice above.

I've just come back to quads from inlines, and I wanted a boot like you describe; I'd always been on Sure Grip Rebel Avengers before that for indoors, and I had some soccer boots on Avengers for outdoors - I loved the plates and the freedom of the low ankle, but always felt a bit 'vulnerable' outdoors.

I skate quads indoors at the rink for rec/speed, outdoors for rec/speed, and have dabbled at skateparks (but not much on quads).

Having watched Wawa's video a gajillion times, I can see how the slides and two-wheeled tricks he does would benefit from a hard-shell boot; same for the slalom moves. For pure speed, a high boot like that would probably cramp the style of someone used to low cut boots.

I took my new Antik Spyders to a speed/fitness session and tried them laced up to the top - jeebus, I couldn't do crossovers! Solved that by only lacing up to the heel-lock eyelet. At the skatepark, they were fine laced up because I didn't need that long push out at all.

The boots offer support but not stiffness - they could be ideal for you. I did a training half-marathon this morning on a cycle track with the Envy wheels they come with, and they felt awesome - the best since I've got them (I didn't really get on with the Triton plate at first; have improved that by re-mounting them all the way to the front, and changing the cushions to Sure Grip Super purples - all barrels; tried the cones underneath at first, but they felt wrong). If cash is no object, you could go for AR1's with Reactors or Roll Lines or suchlike. Lace up for support/skatepark; lace to the ankle for speed (when your ankle gets a bit stronger). Just a suggestion (I'm currently awaiting Bont Hybrids for indoor speed/session, the Antiks will be for outdoor/skatepark only).

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Old September 24th, 2014, 01:28 PM   #29
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cheers,

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone

I ended up seeing a brand new pair of the Riedell Classics 66's on ebay and managed to buy them dirt cheap. They fit perfectly and have a FAR nicer fit then any of the ice hockey converts that I have tried which is brilliant.

I'm going to try them in the short term with a view that if my ankle becomes more stable I may switch to the Antik as I'm still coaching in the derby league so that would allow for support with a little more wiggle

Will keep this updated with how I find skating in the boot for anyone interested in the future.
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Old September 24th, 2014, 02:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by TheSweeney View Post
cheers,

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone

I ended up seeing a brand new pair of the Riedell Classics 66's on ebay and managed to buy them dirt cheap. They fit perfectly and have a FAR nicer fit then any of the ice hockey converts that I have tried which is brilliant.

I'm going to try them in the short term with a view that if my ankle becomes more stable I may switch to the Antik as I'm still coaching in the derby league so that would allow for support with a little more wiggle

Will keep this updated with how I find skating in the boot for anyone interested in the future.
Did you get the ones with the metal or plastic plate?
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Old September 24th, 2014, 03:15 PM   #31
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Did you get the ones with the metal or plastic plate?
They came with the metal plate (powerdyn), I'm switching it with my Reactor Pros as they are lighter and I used to have them on my skates when outdoors before.

Thinking that may be the best option... also changing to my hyper rollos for outdoor.
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Old September 24th, 2014, 03:24 PM   #32
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I think i will bin my powerdynes too, they feel way too heavy. I have visions of rolling my ankle. i am thinking of putting my Mag avengers on them and use them as indoor skates.
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Old September 25th, 2014, 10:46 PM   #33
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I really don't like the Triton plates indoors. Wigan rink is big, but even so they feel most unmanoeuvrable compared to Avenger da45s. I'm way slower on them, too, even with the same Roll Line Olympic wheels I had on my Rebel Avengers. Think it's the action (or lack of ;-)). OK just for outdoor, distance/fitness, it seems...for now...
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Old October 27th, 2014, 11:55 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by TheSweeney View Post
cheers,

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone

I ended up seeing a brand new pair of the Riedell Classics 66's on ebay and managed to buy them dirt cheap. They fit perfectly and have a FAR nicer fit then any of the ice hockey converts that I have tried which is brilliant.

Congratulations!

How do the Classic 66s feeling on your feet? Do you have found with them the right mixture between comfort in padding and heel support?

I have two setups in use with them since many years and don't believe that they are beatable for recreational outdoor skating.

Let me know about your experiences...

Cheers

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Old October 27th, 2014, 09:06 PM   #35
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Crazy debate on boot style here. I only have 1 quad, its a vanilla freestyle on a powerdyne arius. There isn't above ankle support, and I cannot see how you would ever need such support outdoors. Now the hard plastic boots as being huge for taking abuse, I totally agree. My inlines are hard shell high top rec skates and they will easily brush off a fall where my vanillas would not.

I still don't think I would use an inline boot even if it had an articulating cuff for outdoor quads. As armadillo said, its restrictive on lateral articulation of your ankle. If you have good ankle flexibility, stability and strength using a solid type high-top boot isn't needed, downhill or not. Youd probably end up with uneven wear characteristics on your wheels because your skate would tip over like a cardboard box instead of being able to bend at the ankle like a quad needs to.

I love my arius outdoors, but its design is very hard on it when rolling over cracks. Traditional KP wins cause every time I roll over sidewalk cracks it hits so hard I feel like I'm gonna break the darn thing.
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Old October 30th, 2014, 01:16 PM   #36
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Here are my Riedells now that i've re-mounted them with Pilot F16s plastics. I dropped 10mm in wheelbase too. These are by far my most comfy skates. i skated these the other night for 2 hours and my feet felt fresh as a daisy.

Edit. Need to trim mounting bolts a little
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Old March 23rd, 2015, 03:53 AM   #37
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Having a bad knee and angle is going to be the decision maker. What ever feels the most comfortable. I have 2 bad knees, meniscus clean up on the right, and major meniscus repair on the left. I prefer some movement from my ankle, and a plate that has a lot of movement with the least amount of effort to achieve it. A tight plate with a 10* trucks is going to take more effort from your knees and ankle to get it to turn. 30-45* trucks would b my choice. I skate avenger DA45 inside and out.
I also have a running shoe gel/rubber insert in my skate to help with vibration, and impacts. Bottom line is find whatever works, and your knees, and ankle feels the best when finished skating. Going to take some trial and error.JMO
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