Axle Help

[ursle]

Originally Posted by fierocious1

What Mort said.
My kingpins on my skates do not use lock nuts to lock them down. I install the kingpins in the plates using red locktite. Let it set a day or even two. Red locktite is very tough, you will have to heat the axles and trucks to get the axles out. But they will stay put

Originally Posted by Mort

When did any of us recommend using red loctite on a kingpin? We didn(')t. The only thing any of us did was vouch for the strength of red loctite being able to hold assembl(ies) together with adequate strength, and was strong enough to resist the cycles of force a kingpin undergoes that has even been known to loosen jam nuts.


Go on and tell me how one of the best plates out there is trash now because their axles are nearly unremoveable.

Trom, I can't imagine how you come to your conclusions, don't ask me to explain your inept conclusions to you.

Anyway, Please, "skateloggers", don't use locktite on a kingpin.
When you see bad advice, take that person's future advice with a grain of salt.
Cult mentality got us where the White House is, busted.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by ursle

Trom, I can't imagine how you come to your conclusions, don't ask me to explain your inept conclusions to you.

Anyway, Please, "skateloggers", don't use locktite on a kingpin.
When you see bad advice, take that person's future advice with a grain of salt.
Cult mentality got us where the White House is, busted.

And you still dont read in full of the message he posted to be read where he goes on to say "Red locktite is very tough, you will have to heat the axles and trucks to get the axles out. But they will stay put
"

You just want to pick out parts of anyones post that which you quarrel with on opposite views of your political bullcrap.

None of the posters on this thread are advocating using red loctite for stock plates instead of, say, a prolines jam nut.

Fierocious1's entire post was to highlight the strength and holding power of red loctite. Guess you missed that because you're too caught up with trying to make a fuss with people you don't like.

[ursle]

Originally Posted by Mort

Fierocious1 didn't say anything about using Aluminum kingpins...

No, I was pointing out the similarity of breaking two shoulders by using "weak" aluminum for kingpins to using red loctite for a kingpin instead of a lock nut.


His point was bout the strength of red loctite. His homemade plate uses threaded rod thst he put loctite on nd didnt need a locknut, allowing him to run a taller cushion plate side. The loctite holds the kingpin in place so the adjuster nut on the end wont turn the kingpin, pretty simple.

Yes, and my point is, don't, use a locknut.

Originally Posted by Mort

And you still dont read in full of the message he posted to be read where he goes on to say "Red locktite is very tough, you will have to heat the axles and trucks to get the axles out. But they will stay put
"

Yes, Trom, you have to heat the part to soften the red loctite, that's not the point, the point is where the red loctite is being used.


You just want to pick out parts of anyone(')s post that which you quarrel with on opposite views of your political bullcrap.

I'm always going to call out stupid, Trom.


None of the posters on this thread are advocating using red loctite for stock plates instead of, say, a prolines jam nut.

Trom, what's with proline jam nuts? No other posters are advocating using red loctite for kingpins either, yet.

BTW, heating anything to softer it is going to damage it, Red is permanent, just use blue.
KISS, keep it simple stupid.


Fierocious1's entire post was to highlight the strength and holding power of red loctite. Guess you missed that because you're too caught up with trying to make a fuss with people you don't like.

Let's look again.

Originally Posted by fierocious1 View Post
What Mort said.
My kingpins on my skates do not use lock nuts to lock them down. I install the kingpins in the plates using red locktite. Let it set a day or even two. Red locktite is very tough, you will have to heat the axles and trucks to get the axles out. But they will stay put.


No, it was to amplify the use of red loctite for a kingpin.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by ursle

Yes, and my point is, don't, use a locknut.




No, it was to amplify the use of red loctite for a kingpin.

Really it was not meant to advocate others to use red loctite instead of their jam nuts...

Red is permanent, just like an axle in a truck SHOULD be permanently held in place. Blue 243 wont hold up. Green (609) is expensive, and must be ordered. One could buy a new truck for its price. Red 263 is the best for the task at hand of affixing a loose axle back into a truck with the proper strength, and also being oil tolerant, widely available, and about 1/3rd the cost of 609.

It's a no brainer, but you're still arguing that it's bad for axles(well now you're on kingpins now..) to be as they are intended. You're arguing that Fierocious1 is advocating others to use it in place of jam nuts on their kingpins, which he is not. He stated what he used it for, and even without a jam nut, it is able to hold a kingpin in a plate, proofing its strength under cycles of load and torque.

If I'm wrong, and your interpretation of his statement is correct, I'm sure he can weigh in on that and clear things up.

[ursle]

Originally Posted by Mort

Really it was not meant to advocate others to use red loctite instead of their jam nuts...

Good, then stop suggesting is is.


It's a no brainer, but you're still arguing that it's bad for axles(well now you're on kingpins now..) to be as they are intended. You're arguing that Fierocious1 is advocating others to use it in place of jam nuts on their kingpins, which he is not.

Good, then stop mentioning it, it's a bad idea and shouldn't be reinforced.


He stated what he used it for, and even without a jam nut, it is able to hold a kingpin in a plate, proofing its strength under cycles of load and torque.

And it's a stupid thing to do, just like using inadequate aluminum for kingpins and breaking 2 shoulders.


If I'm wrong, and your interpretation of his statement is correct, I'm sure he can weigh in on that and clear things up.

Yes, reinforcement from the terrible idea person will certainly clear up a terrible idea.

Stupid is as stupid does or here, defends doing.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by ursle

Yes, reinforcement from the terrible idea person will certainly clear up a terrible idea.

Stupid is as stupid does or here, defends doing.

Theres nothing mechanically wrong with his setup.

Why you're even going on and on about it is beyond me.

Not once has anyone been saying "throw your jam nuts away and use red loctite on your kingpins!" You just want it to be like that for a reason to try and smite people you dont agree with.

Myself, I'd be afraid of eventually breaking a kingpin then having to deal with the loctite. Not that jam nuts haven't caused me some issues too, snyder royals, a custom plate , prolines, a snyder advantage to name a couple.

But if you want K.I.S.S. then we should all be using probe plates that dont require any of that where the kingpin is a bolt that drops thru the plate and typically never breaks because the baseplate has some give to it.

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by Mort

Theres nothing mechanically wrong with his setup.

Why you're even going on and on about it is beyond me.

Not once has anyone been saying "throw your jam nuts away and use red loctite on your kingpins!" You just want it to be like that for a reason to try and smite people you dont agree with.

Myself, I'd be afraid of eventually breaking a kingpin then having to deal with the loctite. Not that jam nuts haven't caused me some issues too, snyder royals, a custom plate , prolines, a snyder advantage to name a couple.

But if you want K.I.S.S. then we should all be using probe plates that dont require any of that where the kingpin is a bolt that drops thru the plate and typically never breaks because the baseplate has some give to it.

Some people don't understand basic or elemetary mechanics. And some people have never done engineering design and testing. And by not doing, have stunted their understanding of things being mechanical. This also brings up the lack of understanding similar properties of different fields or disciplines. So someone is lost, but it ain't us Mort.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by fierocious1

Some people don't understand basic or elemetary mechanics. And some people have never done engineering design and testing. And by not doing, have stunted their understanding of things being mechanical. This also brings up the lack of understanding similar properties of different fields or disciplines. So someone is lost, but it ain't us Mort.

Just for clarity here, 2 questions.


Was your example of use to highlight the strength and holding power of red loctite?

Or do you mean for people to start using it on their kingpins in place of a jam nut?

Ursle needs to know.

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by Mort

Just for clarity here, 2 questions.


Was your example of use to highlight the strength and holding power of red loctite?

Or do you mean for people to start using it on their kingpins in place of a jam nut?

Ursle needs to know.

Originally Posted by Mort

Was your example of use to highlight the strength and holding power of red loctite?

The use of the locktite was not to highlight the strenth, the strength of red loctite has been established for years, but to fill a void in the threads of the kingpin and the threads in the plate/frame. Once dried red loctites properties makes it extremely difficult to remove the grade 8 stud. The studs are from McMaster Carr. I have broken bolts that were locked into place with red loctite before on machinery. It just don't give up so easily, so no locking nut needed. In several years of skating these plates, the red loctite has proven it is up to the task.

Originally Posted by Mort

Or do you mean for people to start using it on their kingpins in place of a jam nut?
Ursle needs to know.

People that experiment with skate gear or more precisely, experiment with cushion stacks may like to use red loctite instead of locknuts to allow the users to try taller cushions. Taller cushions reduce coil bind affects or ramp up of resistance as the plate angle increases during turns. By removing the locknut, there is more room to add a taller cushion between the plate and the truck.
I have lots of old skate plates and some have been produced with taller cushions.
My plates are different than that, as I have overlength kingpins allowing me to use taller cushions on top and bottom of the truck.
Never broken a kingpin, or truck. Usually I can stick harder wheels when other can't due to low ramp up.
So, the red loctite could be used to eliminate the locknut, but I'm not saying that they should. That change would lead to learning things, as once the kp is loctited in, you have no choice but to experiment and learn.

Sorry I may be explaining things beyond ursle comprehension abilities.....

[Mort]

Ok. In your original reply to this thread you mention about using it and it should be plenty to stabilize an axle in the truck housing.

It seemed like you were giving an example of your use and that its strength did well for that even without a jam nut, so it will hold the OP's axle on the truck just fine.


Essentially you used your own setup as an example of its capabilities for achieving a stabilized part.

That's what I got from your original reply.

[ursle]

And then Stupid doubles and then quadruples down.

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by Mort

Ok. In your original reply to this thread you mention about using it and it should be plenty to stabilize an axle in the truck housing.

It seemed like you were giving an example of your use and that its strength did well for that even without a jam nut, so it will hold the OP's axle on the truck just fine.


Essentially you used your own setup as an example of its capabilities for achieving a stabilized part.

That's what I got from your original reply.

Yes, a kingpin gets a lot more abuse than an axle. Tension from cushions being compressed, side loads and loads from from and all of it happening rapidly in short cycles. An axle only gets side loading and loads that try to bend the axle. Used properly as you explained earlier, making sure red loctite coats the area of the axle that is in the bore of the truck and the truck bore as well, it is well within the limitations of the product. The axle would be stable and useable for quite some time IMO. Under derby use parts break no matter what you do.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by ursle

And then Stupid doubles and then quadruples down.

Just salty you were incorrect on the implied message and meaning behind fierocious1's original reply to this post?

No one is doubling down. Unless you think clarifying for you to understand why I tried to explain in the first place is doubling down.

[fierocious1]

Doubling down, lol. Well if any one doesn't think it works.... talk to the skate... I have room to lighten the frame even more and retain the strength.

[ursle]

Originally Posted by fierocious1

What Mort said.
My kingpins on my skates do not use lock nuts to lock them down. I install the kingpins in the plates using red locktite. Let it set a day or even two.

Yes, you have to heat red loctite to get the parts apart, but you're discussing kingpins using red loctite, yet, here you go with axles, are you putting red loctite on an axle or a kingpin?
The axle isn't going anywhere, loctite or not, the Kingpin on the other hand is an accident, broken limb waiting to happen.


Red loc()tite is very tough, you will have to heat the axles and trucks to get the axles out. But they will stay put

The stupid never stops.
Let's start over.
"I install my kingpins using red loctite"
That's all we need, that's exactly what we're discussing.

Don't use loctite for kingpins.

Originally Posted by fierocious1

Yes, a kingpin gets a lot more abuse than an axle. Tension from cushions being compressed, side loads and loads from from and all of it happening rapidly in short cycles. An axle only gets side loading and loads that try to bend the axle. Used properly as you explained earlier, making sure red loctite coats the area of the axle that is in the bore of the truck and the truck bore as well, it is well within the limitations of the product. The axle would be stable and useable for quite some time IMO. Under derby use parts break no matter what you do.

Originally Posted by fierocious1

Doubling down, lol. Well if any one doesn't think it works.... talk to the skate... I have room to lighten the frame even more and retain the strength.

Then the double then the quadruple emphasis of red loctite for kingpins, I can't stop stupid that's already stupid, but I can contribute to stopping more stupid by others that are mislead.

Obviously there's only one red loctite kingpin user here, hopefully, bad advice causes injury, and these two trolls just keep adding to the stupid.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by ursle

The stupid never stops.
Let's start over.
"I install my kingpins using red loctite"
That's all we need, that's exactly what we're discussing.

Don't use loctite for kingpins.







Then the double then the quadruple emphasis of red loctite for kingpins, I can't stop stupid that's already stupid, but I can contribute to stopping more stupid by others that are mislead.

Obviously there's only one red loctite kingpin user here, hopefully, bad advice causes injury, and these two trolls just keep adding to the stupid.

Would you listen for once? The original reply he made here was to illustrate the holding power of red loctite. Nothing more. His example happens to be using red loctite on kingpins, but what he used it for is rather irrelevant. His whole point was that it would even stand up to just threading a kingpin into a plate nd letting it cure, so it would be more than enough for affixing a loose axle as well.

Also

Mechanically speaking. Theres nothing wrong with what fierocious1 did with his kingpins. It's no different than using a jam nut that would stabilize/immobilize a kingpin in a baseplate. It wont lead to any increase in failure rate of the kingpins. In fact it would likely reduce it.
Considering there is more room for the suspension to be compliant with how the plate is leaned over. This would reduce leverages on the kingpin because there would be more room with tallercones/barrels before the suspension started to see significant ramp up, which is the primary contributor to breaking kingpins.


You seem to want to believe doing what he has done to his plates will increase failure potential, which is not true.

The only thing that would be problematic is if/when they do break, is getting the old ones out. But that has nothing to do with increasing or decreasing the durability of his setup.

[fierocious1]

Locknuts actually increase tension on the kingpins. By locking down the king pins with a locking nut, the kingpin is under tension continously. The tension point is very narrow/concentrated, at a point on the kingpin that is between the plate and the nut. So any extra force added to the kinpin is combined to the tension already there but not neccesarily in a linear amount due to the locknut flange resisting angular movement.
So, my install actually is stressed less than typical locknut configurations.

Oh and you're a racist lol

[ursle]

Originally Posted by fierocious1

Locknuts actually increase tension on the kingpins. By locking down the king pins with a locking nut, the kingpin is under tension contin(u)ously. The tension point is very narrow/concentrated, at a point on the kingpin that is between the plate and the nut. So any extra force added to the kinpin is combined to the tension already there but not nec()e(s)sarily in a linear amount due to the locknut flange resisting angular movement.
So, my install actually is stressed less than typical locknut configurations.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, winner winner two chicken dinner.

Yes, a Quadruple Triple Double down, recommending loctite instead of a lock nut.

Someone take this person's gun's away, he's dangerous to others.

[fierocious1]

Promote yourself to top idiot.... you really have earned it... Ill probably live much longer working on my skates than you working on your "boys"

[wyodinosaur]

This thread needs to be locked before things escalate further.