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Inline Artistic Discussions about artistic skating on inline figure skates.

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Old October 21st, 2007, 10:07 PM   #1
QuetzalPhoenix
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Default 3 wheels or 4?

I was looking at inline frames and noticed there's an option whether to have a 3-wheel frame and a 4-wheel frame. Is 3-wheel best for beginners or something? Or is it personal preferences?

I ask this because I'm thinking of purchasing one, mainly for fun to start with. When my new boots arrive, I'll have old boots and nothing to do with them! So I thought, hey, why not mount them to inline frames .

(Feel free to stop me if that's a bad idea, lol)
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Old October 21st, 2007, 11:11 PM   #2
zerio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuetzalPhoenix View Post
I was looking at inline frames and noticed there's an option whether to have a 3-wheel frame and a 4-wheel frame. Is 3-wheel best for beginners or something? Or is it personal preferences?

I ask this because I'm thinking of purchasing one, mainly for fun to start with. When my new boots arrive, I'll have old boots and nothing to do with them! So I thought, hey, why not mount them to inline frames .

(Feel free to stop me if that's a bad idea, lol)

I believe theres a great variables considerations.... its a personal choice dependiong on how you skate, your preferences ,skatign background etc. But as time goes by the more the 3 wheel inline skates are assuming the leadership. You may want to consider that most of the skaters are using 3 wheels in the previous World Inline Championships and this year more than 50% of the competitors are using the Snowwhite, Now theres an extremily y rigid plastic toe block that helps to jump, reduces weight and it makes easier toestopper regulations and increases stable. But always decide by yourperception and your own judgement ,after all, your feet will wear the skates not mine..If you have the chance test them all and find the one that most suit your needs. I hope this posting was helpful because I had been thru the very same questions... please search for past postings and you might find some responses and tips. You will find inline figure skates distributors/retailers in UK.

Best
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Old October 22nd, 2007, 10:42 PM   #3
QuetzalPhoenix
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Thanks zerio

Yes, I did notice that most of the international skaters are skating on Snow White frames, and the 3-wheel frame looks easier to adjust (to me) from quad skating, as the blades do not exceed the length of the boot, like the 4-wheel frames seem to do.

As for trying them beforehand, that might be unlikely as I don't attend competitions because I can't get there, and distributors in the UK generally live quite a distance from where I live.

I don't know anyone who does sell inline frames in the UK at present, but I'm sure I can find out somewhere online
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Last edited by QuetzalPhoenix; October 22nd, 2007 at 10:43 PM. Reason: spelling error
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Old October 22nd, 2007, 11:11 PM   #4
zerio
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 06:03 PM   #5
jkaplenk
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I have a pair of three wheel Custom Inline skates and four wheel PIC skates and will share my experiences. I am not an advocate of any manufacturer but just expressing my experiences. I would agree that a lot of it is personal preference. The PIC skates seem to be easier for the ice skaters whereas the three wheels frames are supposedly easier for quad skaters.

From a design standpoint in either case you only have two wheels touching the floor or ground at anytime in skates that are rockered. This means that the bottoms of the wheels form a curve not a straight line. Three wheel rockered skates only give you two positions of balance - front and middle wheels or middle and back wheels. The four wheel design gives you three points of balance - first to second, second to third and third to fourth. This gives you more of an arch like the rocker in ice blades and may be why the four wheel design is preferred by ice skaters.

Some Inline Figure Skates with three wheels do not have a rocker, like the Triax, but that can be simulated by using different size wheels.

My personal preference is the PIC. Probably because most of my experience is ice. With the three wheel design I found myself too far backwards and the only choice was to force it to the front. Four wheels give me an extra choice. My three turns and edges are easier on PIC skates and my jumps feel more solid on them.

The Custom Inlines and Snow Whites have been used by skaters at Worlds quite successfully. The wheels on the Custom Inlines seem wider and more flat that the ones on my PIC skates, so the problem may be due to wheels. I also feel more stable on the PIC skates in jumps, but the PIC skates are also longer. On ice I get as long a blade as possible for freestyle. I'm going to do some testing with different wheels to see if that makes a difference. My Custom Inlines would be good for dance if I can master the edges and three turns better on them since they are shorter.

I haven't tried the Snow White skates and hope to get a chance to do some comparisons.

Your mileage may vary.

Joe Kaplenk

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuetzalPhoenix View Post
I was looking at inline frames and noticed there's an option whether to have a 3-wheel frame and a 4-wheel frame. Is 3-wheel best for beginners or something? Or is it personal preferences?

I ask this because I'm thinking of purchasing one, mainly for fun to start with. When my new boots arrive, I'll have old boots and nothing to do with them! So I thought, hey, why not mount them to inline frames .

(Feel free to stop me if that's a bad idea, lol)
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 06:29 PM   #6
zerio
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Its quiet interesting indeed. I have learnt to skate on quads but after 5 years , ie more than 28 years ago Ive never got back to quads vigorously and started to skate hard on ice until mid 80s. After that , Iwas only playing around and last year I had the chance to go to inline, 3 wheels. shoudl I consider that my background is ice or quad? Dont know but I also share the point that its a personal preference as I had aforementioned. But I have found that maybe because the 4 wheel had had a great penetration amongst ice skaters it has created the belief that 3 would be for ones who practices quads and 4 wheel would be for ice skaters but actually in practice I dont think so or I would have chosen the 4 wheel then. As the other brand has been also introduced to ice skaters this argument has been changing. They are just different and there will always be the ones who prefer one to another but with respect I disagree that ice skaters would choose 4 wheel period or vice verse , even some quad skaters prefer the 4 wheel as well. However, its undeniable that on 4 wheel the backwards and crossing moviments to mention 2 of them are more complicated and spins are easy if they are not toestopper free .Asides that what could also attract quad skaters are some camels/spins done in quads only with 4 wheels they are impossible because the last 4th wheel is way behind the anckle line..on ince only John Watts ( sadly shut down once again) had a specialblades that woudl allow skaters to be able to do some moviments only done on wheels.... just MHO.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 07:08 PM   #7
jkaplenk
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Default Camel

I have seen some inline skaters skating on just the rear wheel, but can't recall seeing a camel spin on one.

My comment on preferences is just what I've seen and discussed among other inline skaters in the US. Among three-wheel skates Triax used to be quite popular with quad skaters that did inlines. that may be where this comes from. I haven't heard much about them recently, so maybe the that has changed. I also read some online evaluations that helped to supoort this observation.


I do know that skaters I've worked with that do both ice and inlines have had a preference for the four wheel design and I personally haven't been satisfied with a three wheel design. But the problem is that there is still a lot of development that can be done in my opinion and so there might be something else that works.

Joe Kaplenk

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerio View Post
Its quiet interesting indeed. I have learnt to skate on quads but after 5 years , ie more than 28 years ago Ive never got back to quads vigorously and started to skate hard on ice until mid 80s. After that , Iwas only playing around and last year I had the chance to go to inline, 3 wheels. shoudl I consider that my background is ice or quad? Dont know but I also share the point that its a personal preference as I had aforementioned. But I have found that maybe because the 4 wheel had had a great penetration amongst ice skaters it has created the belief that 3 would be for ones who practices quads and 4 wheel would be for ice skaters but actually in practice I dont think so or I would have chosen the 4 wheel then. As the other brand has been also introduced to ice skaters this argument has been changing. They are just different and there will always be the ones who prefer one to another but with respect I disagree that ice skaters would choose 4 wheel period or vice verse , even some quad skaters prefer the 4 wheel as well. However, its undeniable that on 4 wheel the backwards and crossing moviments to mention 2 of them are more complicated and spins are easy if they are not toestopper free .Asides that what could also attract quad skaters are some camels/spins done in quads only with 4 wheels they are impossible because the last 4th wheel is way behind the anckle line..on ince only John Watts ( sadly shut down once again) had a specialblades that woudl allow skaters to be able to do some moviments only done on wheels.... just MHO.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 08:54 PM   #8
zerio
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I agree with you.. inline is a new modality however, there are other 3 wheelbrand outside is US.I understand that being PIC and TRIAX both are made in USA but aside being both from US theres no way to compare..3and 4 wheels ...and on the top Triax has no rockered..I would also assume the same choice in this circumstance... Believe me before I had chosen my frames I did a lot of questions and reaserch asked as many people as I could... thanks my frames work perfectly well for me.Im big now and taller than 6ft. Apparentely to most competitors at the world champion 3 wheeel have been the number one too... though my strongest background in years of practicing should be ice* Id had only 5 years on rolllers , my personal choice was not 4 wheel.Again we agree its a personal preference... depends on your style and years to come wil be crucial to guide us all. At the meantime, its undeniable that rockered 3 wheel have proved to be the number one choice though which in a way it may contribute to continue the belief that quads prefers the 3 wheels over4 wheels since all of therm have quads background. But its easy to explain as we dont see anyone leaving ice skating to engage inline.

All in all, I really think different opinions make this world richer and more interesting though some opinions in common is also very important.

All the Best
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 09:57 PM   #9
jkaplenk
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Default Multiple frames

I am aware of other three 3 wheel brands in and outside of the US. I only mentioned those as examples and that I've experienced. The design of a frame is actually relatively low tech and can be done by a small machine shop experienced in lightweight materials. I'm surprised there aren't more variations than there are. Our local speed club has designed and built their own speed frame, so I expect that there could be potentially a lot there.

Actually I've had some thoughts on a design myself and only need some time and opportunity to build it. So it is more of an engineering issue along with skating and materials knowledge and trial than anything else.

Joe Kaplenk

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerio View Post
I agree with you.. inline is a new modality however, there are other 3 wheelbrand outside is US.I understand that being PIC and TRIAX both are made in USA but aside being both from US theres no way to compare..3and 4 wheels ...and on the top Triax has no rockered..I would also assume the same choice in this circumstance... Believe me before I had chosen my frames I did a lot of questions and reaserch asked as many people as I could... thanks my frames work perfectly well for me.Im big now and taller than 6ft. Apparentely to most competitors at the world champion 3 wheeel have been the number one too... though my strongest background in years of practicing should be ice* Id had only 5 years on rolllers , my personal choice was not 4 wheel.Again we agree its a personal preference... depends on your style and years to come wil be crucial to guide us all. At the meantime, its undeniable that rockered 3 wheel have proved to be the number one choice though which in a way it may contribute to continue the belief that quads prefers the 3 wheels over4 wheels since all of therm have quads background. But its easy to explain as we dont see anyone leaving ice skating to engage inline.

All in all, I really think different opinions make this world richer and more interesting though some opinions in common is also very important.

All the Best
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 10:38 PM   #10
zerio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkaplenk View Post
I am aware of other three 3 wheel brands in and outside of the US. I only mentioned those as examples and that I've experienced.

The design of a frame is actually relatively low tech and can be done by a small machine shop experienced in lightweight materials. I'm surprised there aren't more variations than there are. Our local speed club has designed and built their own speed frame, so I expect that there could be potentially a lot there.

Actually I've had some thoughts on a design myself and only need some time and opportunity to build it. So it is more of an engineering issue along with skating and materials knowledge and trial than anything else.

Joe Kaplenk
Alright !

Good idea !

Go for it and produce your own skates, Then, please send me a free sample of your very high primo tech one.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 11:33 PM   #11
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If I ever do. It is inline right behind other major projects. Right along with USFIFS, teaching, book writing, etc. I've probably got all my years to retirement booked right now ;-}

Actually it would be nice to experiment and let others do the building.

Joe

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Originally Posted by zerio View Post
Alright !

Good idea !

Go for it and produce your own skates, Then, please send me a free sample of your very high primo tech one.
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Old October 23rd, 2007, 11:42 PM   #12
zerio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkaplenk View Post
If I ever do. It is inline right behind other major projects. Right along with USFIFS, teaching, book writing, etc. I've probably got all my years to retirement booked right now ;-}

Actually it would be nice to experiment and let others do the building.

Joe

Anyway, please dont forget about me. BTW, USFIFS is a good thing indeed. Ive been thinkiing about joining it. How to turn projects into reality make the events more exposed..(certainly webcast is a must).how to engage inline skaters from Brazil etc etcetc ..But this is something for a new thread, I guess.

It was nice to share similarities and differences as well. Afterall, such differences are crucial and salutare for any group . Sucess to your new endeveours involving USFIFS,

All the best.
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Old October 24th, 2007, 12:06 PM   #13
Wendy Hammond
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Hi Quetzal - my 2 boys started rollering on pics having started off on ice. Now both are on Snow White and are very happy with them. They are lighter and easier to jump, footwork is neater as there are only 3 wheels. Spinning is harder than on ice but with slight 'tweaking' of ice technique can be mastered. I have recently become UK distributor so if you would like more info please contact me.
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Old October 24th, 2007, 03:18 PM   #14
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Thank you. It's been quite hectic with USFIFS, but something that is needed. I normally teach Computer Science in my spare time but enrollments are down and so I've had a little extra time. I'm also quite involved in sports analysis using video and so I will hopefully have some good video when I get time to sort through it. I've got several terabytes on DVDs of ice, roller and inlne and have to dump it to extract the inline stuff since it is mixed in.

When we have our Annual Seminar we will hopefully do a webcast of the events. It depends on the location and will need someone that is familiar with the process or spend some time learning it. We have a domain usfifs.tv that will eventually be focused on video and webcasting.

The USFIFS welcomes members from other countries. The forms are on the website. The only difference is that US members and full member clubs can vote on issues, but anyone can comment and make recommendations. We can help people form their own national inline figure skating organization also. We are writing up suggested guidelines on how to do it. It is less daunting that it appears. It is typically quite straightforward with some work.

The website has been key and it has taken a lot of time, but I did do another update last night, so feel free to look at it. I think the speed and format problems are fixed.

Joe Kaplenk

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerio View Post
Anyway, please dont forget about me. BTW, USFIFS is a good thing indeed. Ive been thinkiing about joining it. How to turn projects into reality make the events more exposed..(certainly webcast is a must).how to engage inline skaters from Brazil etc etcetc ..But this is something for a new thread, I guess.

It was nice to share similarities and differences as well. Afterall, such differences are crucial and salutare for any group . Sucess to your new endeveours involving USFIFS,

All the best.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 06:51 AM   #15
zerio
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Thank you Mr Joe Kaplenk


Anyway, when USFIFS is more established and things straightened up , such as the points rolaboi had pointed and others..then Illl talk more with inline skaters from Brazil including the speedskarers and willl post a new tread.
I think we all shall work toeducate and to proove that inline skating can help ice skating technics.. with so much materiali n your hands , its not hard to freeze images and compare..Yes livewebcasat and very good communication is VERY important..not only a forum...but an e group that always receive good news as well as some sponsors notes mixed in...

Regarding 3or4wheels..you yourself have just read one more posting about the said myth that iceskaters goes to 4wheels and quad skaters go to 3wheels.

Wnedy I agree with you 110% !
Best Regards.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 08:21 AM   #16
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Wendy - Welcome to the SkateLog Forum!!!

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Old October 25th, 2007, 03:45 PM   #17
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Thanks for the ideas.

As I said about the 3 vs 4 wheels it is based on my experience and talking with other skaters. Certainly there is no hard and fast rule and different people have different feelings. I haven't tried the Snow White and so my experiences can be significantly different. I've got about 10 pairs of skates right now among my ice, roller and inline and all of them get used at some point, so I'm kind of buried right now with skates and not enthused about buying another pair. If someone in the Chicago area has a pair my size (from 9 to 10 depending on the boot manufacturer) I'd like to try them. Contact me offline.

I think the first step for the video would be to link to Worlds from usfifs.tv and then get a schedule of all the inline events. I would let the organizers know of course or have someone forward it to the appropriate person. If someone can breakout the inline events by time and even better convert it to US Central that would help a lot. I can make it easy for people to see the inline events.

Joe Kaplenk

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerio View Post
Thank you Mr Joe Kaplenk


Anyway, when USFIFS is more established and things straightened up , such as the points rolaboi had pointed and others..then Illl talk more with inline skaters from Brazil including the speedskarers and willl post a new tread.
I think we all shall work toeducate and to proove that inline skating can help ice skating technics.. with so much materiali n your hands , its not hard to freeze images and compare..Yes livewebcasat and very good communication is VERY important..not only a forum...but an e group that always receive good news as well as some sponsors notes mixed in...

Regarding 3or4wheels..you yourself have just read one more posting about the said myth that iceskaters goes to 4wheels and quad skaters go to 3wheels.

Wnedy I agree with you 110% !
Best Regards.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 05:46 PM   #18
zerio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkaplenk View Post
Thanks for the ideas.

I think the first step for the video would be to link to Worlds from usfifs.tv and then get a schedule of all the inline events. I would let the organizers know of course or have someone forward it to the appropriate person. If someone can breakout the inline events by time and even better convert it to US Central that would help a lot. I can make it easy for people to see the inline events.

Joe Kaplenk

Hello Joe when Id meant about videos etc..I meant about the material that you already have tocompare the ice/quad and inlien technics. Besides that, there is no way to try to make videos out of the events,I belive the rights are protected and most of all the image quality is very very poor... resolution does not go over320x480pixels nowadays in webcasting. Anyway, perhaps I have misunderstood you.

Regarding the skates, compared to 500USD+ blades only or quad plates
snowwhite is a bargain...and you can not only easily afford it buituse one of the boots that you already have. Contact US dealers. You knwo where they are.Give a chance...and also your input because to talk about something youve never experienced is only good for clairvoyants not skaters. Go for it... it wont hurt you.Maybe you canget the plain frames only..nowheels, no bearings... but the frames and the toestopper which BTW last much longer than the other ones....

BR

Thanks
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Old October 25th, 2007, 06:55 PM   #19
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Hi Zerio,

No I wasn't going to copy using video of the events , just provide a web link to the live event. I have sent them a request and would always do it with approval. It is just a very simple link and hopefully will help publicize the event.

I have practically all my videos in Dartfish computer format and it has a built-in library I just have to load the videos into a new server and then it would need to be recompiled for web usage. I'm also a techie and built my own server with 3 Terabytes of RAID for video capture and storage, so it is just a matter of time to load it in and sort it, build the indexes, etc. I do have quite a bit that people could find useful. I have more ice than inline or quad for individual practice sessions. But I did do the Great Lakes Regionals a year ago and have all the World Class and all the inline events along with most of the Dance.

I'll keep the new frames in mind. We are planning our Annual Seminar in April and I'm hoping we can attract the inline frame manufacturers and distributors. Certainly anyone with Snow White is invited and hopefully we can have a demo time. There will be some floor time for training and etc.

I know that SP Teri has some inline figure skates that they can display. George is quite open and supports our efforts. I don't know what brand of frames they have in the models. Anyway, we are working on nailing down the details. We are getting several organizations involved which slows it down a little. If things work out the way we want we'll have all the major boot manufacturers there which should attract the frame manufacturers and distributors.

Joe

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerio View Post
Hello Joe when Id meant about videos etc..I meant about the material that you already have tocompare the ice/quad and inlien technics. Besides that, there is no way to try to make videos out of the events,I belive the rights are protected and most of all the image quality is very very poor... resolution does not go over320x480pixels nowadays in webcasting. Anyway, perhaps I have misunderstood you.

Regarding the skates, compared to 500USD+ blades only or quad plates
snowwhite is a bargain...and you can not only easily afford it buituse one of the boots that you already have. Contact US dealers. You knwo where they are.Give a chance...and also your input because to talk about something youve never experienced is only good for clairvoyants not skaters. Go for it... it wont hurt you.Maybe you canget the plain frames only..nowheels, no bearings... but the frames and the toestopper which BTW last much longer than the other ones....

BR

Thanks
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Old October 25th, 2007, 07:16 PM   #20
zerio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkaplenk View Post
I know that SP Teri has some inline figure skates that they can display. George is quite open and supports our efforts. I don't know what brand of frames they have in the models. Anyway, we are working on nailing down the details. We are getting several organizations involved which slows it down a little. If things work out the way we want we'll have all the major boot manufacturers there which should attract the frame manufacturers and distributors.

Joe

Dear Joe

such a library is awesome....youve got a treasure with you.regarding SPTEri..I got SPTEriDeluxe on my blades...they are blocks abd heavy .I like them very much indeed.,....and they can last forever..good boots indeed.but very Xpensive.. Althouigh I use CF500 winners which are not cheap either, on my SW frames. We would have so much to talk about tech and skates... I know some BR skaters aregoign to America early Jan. Maybe if theres an inline event I could talk to oneofthe skater about join in...actually Ive already talked about this possibility... Idont think shes going to Paris anymore..but it all depends on VISA...after 911 its been like a via crucis to get a visa.. I fear I deviate the tread subject to other things... Its good to know about the US Federation Inline Skarting and its nice todelegate and share responsabilities Im sure there are numerous expertises upthere in many fields thatcould be valuabletojoinin the Federation... having the Inlines modality above any other insterest and a lot of exposition ,evidence, visibility and blogs and myspace etc aware of the events. Talking baout skating...well...my contemporaneous idols wereDorothy Hammill and Terry Kubika on quads..MichelObrecht... Ive never competed....am always neverous.... Best
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