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Old December 18th, 2016, 02:14 PM   #1
Rossman76
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Default First time back with wheel issues..please advise!

Okay,so last night was my first night back to the rink in 25 years.i had a lot of fun,but I need to work a little more and get my action dialed in,but the real problem was my wheels.the would break loose very easily ,to the point of being dangerous.

I was very fortunate to find the exact setup that I used to skate when I was younger.the setup consist of a white 395 boot ,proline plates and embossed vanguard interceptor wheels.

Basically the problem was that anytime I put any real pressure,pushing on the wheels they would break loose vey easily.this in turn made me very slow and completely unpredictable while skating.it almost made the floor feel dusty and I know it's not.it a very nice rink to skate at.

The wheels are obviously very old and probably hardened over from sitting for 20 years or so.i did notice that they were getting a little better towards the end of the session.but the still wouldn't really even make any grip noise from a hockey stop.they have grooves as they were new ,so that's no the problem.

I just wanted to get some suggestions on what I should do.i am going to purchase some Scotts but that's going to be a ways out until he's ready to make me a set.lmk what you guys think.im probably going to buy another emergency set of wheels.

Oh,btw.my weight is a good bit higher that when I was younger.i used to skate this setup at 185lbs and now I'm 225..so I'll need a higher duro wheel for sure if I can't get these interceptors where they feel good.

Sorry for the long winded post!
-Ross-
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Old December 18th, 2016, 09:56 PM   #2
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The issue could be the aging wheel urethane. Maybe a newer wheel would be better.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 10:06 PM   #3
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Default You can send them to Danny Beaver

You can send them to Danny Beaver to have them Re Grooved this may solve your problem. But it will leave you without wheels for a time. Contact Fred Benjamin aka DocSk8 he has a few sets of wheels lying around that he may give you a deal on. He may even have some AssieScotts
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Old December 19th, 2016, 07:05 AM   #4
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Just take them for a 10 minute road skate on some smooth hot mix bitumen or concrete. It will quickly wear the glaze off and give the wheels a new lease on life.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 11:12 AM   #5
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Thanks for all of the feedback everyone,I really appreciate it!ill give it a go and report back.
-Ross-
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Old December 19th, 2016, 03:27 PM   #6
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I'm also using ancient wheels which I find on old speed skates I'm auditioning until I select a pair that fits best. Zingers. I take them off the skates, and use a course green scrubbie, with some warm water. It seems to get them back to where they're useable, I'm even speed skating on them. But soon they're getting replaced, I have orange Cannibals on the way.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 05:44 PM   #7
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Default Danny B

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Originally Posted by the california kid View Post
Better to contact him via email: danielwbeaver@msn.com

And don't expect an immediate reply. He will get back to you however.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 09:19 PM   #8
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Default Welcome back.

How about a pic of the way your action is adjusted?? I'll give ya a hint. If you have more than one thread showing out of the adjuster nut, you have the action too tight... That means you are on the wrong cushions. Or you are just used to your sk8s not working properly.

Here are some simple mechanical facts:
1) Stiff action = less grip. Period.
2) Stiff actions break things. King pin truck yokes, pivot pins, if it is below the plate a stiff action can definitely break it.
3) Stiff actions do not steer well. The tighter they are, the more the sk8 is in charge of where you are going. Over tightened cushions require more effort to make things move and then limit the distance the action can turn. Remember urethane bushings (like the Pro Line) do not compress. They distort, but only up to the point they turn "solid". The urethane cannot distort further so your action cannot do anything past that point. This is a big contributor to breaking.

So, why is the action too tight?? Most likely because the sk8er is either lacking the leg strength to control the action, or they have been rolling something so tight for so long they have adapted their style to not being able to turn.

I get great amusement from folks saying their sk8s go crazy, or don't go where they want them too. I pulled 2 turns out of a ladies new sk8s the other night and she was amazed they actually went where she wanted them to go. Going crazy is a different story. Most likely the action is too loose for the sk8rs current ability. However, in both cases the sk8s are only doing what the were set up to do. To tight and don't turn well, the result of the action adjustment, too loose and going crazy?? Not the sk8s fault. The sk8s are going exactly where the sk8rs is telling them to go. They are just in a positive feedback loop and they cannot react quickly enough to to where the sk8s went when they were told to do so..so the sk8r over corrects...

The optimum set up is the correct cushions with the minimum amount of preload. Once you tighten them past the zero lash point (where the action has just quit wiggling) the response curve of the cushions starts to change. It pushes back more, sooner than when it is loose and it goes solid sooner in the swing of the truck than when it is loose. Basically if you have more than 1 or 1 1/2 turn past zero in the action it is too tight. Get stiffer cushions.

Back to your wheels... For many years every old set of Interceptors I have ever gotten have gone back to Danny Beaver for a regroove. Lots of folks say they can re groove, no one even comes close to Mr. Beaver however.

Before you send the wheels out for work, loosen your action a 1/4 or 1/2 turn and see if the traction improves. You may be surprised...
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Old December 19th, 2016, 11:19 PM   #9
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Hey thanks Doc.as far as the action goes ,I'm about maybe one thread showing after my adjustment.so I'd imagine I only had a half a threads worth of tightening before hand.ill shoot a pic of the front and back truck in a few..
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Old December 19th, 2016, 11:28 PM   #10
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Old December 20th, 2016, 07:32 PM   #11
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I have some older wheels that slide like crazy. I re-grooved them and it did not improve things. Another member suggested machining more off the diameter. In my case I don't think that would work. The wheels also slid 25 years ago when I last used they. My conclusion is some urethane does not stick, and durometer has little to do with it.
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Old December 20th, 2016, 08:42 PM   #12
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Default Couple of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossman76 View Post

You appear to have the orange medium cushions. You may want to get a set of green soft cones to play with. Mix 'n' match as it were. Also, the wheels in the pic look like the SG "interceptors" from back when if 1 groove is good 2 must be better era.

The adjustment in the top pic (back??) is obviously tighter than the bottom pic (front??). While there is nothing wrong with that in particular, it may induce one tighter end to break a bit sooner.

Play with the adjustment, that is free... (Don't forget to loosen the grub screw before adjusting and tighten after.. No I am not trying to insult your intelligence.. On the other hand, I cannot count how many of those actions I have had to fix due to NOT correctly loosening and tightening the grub screw.)
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Old December 20th, 2016, 09:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
I have some older wheels that slide like crazy. I re-grooved them and it did not improve things. Another member suggested machining more off the diameter. In my case I don't think that would work. The wheels also slid 25 years ago when I last used they. My conclusion is some urethane does not stick, and durometer has little to do with it.
Maybe so but I have regroved a bunch of old wheels and it always improved grip. And usually smoothed the ride.

.
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Old December 20th, 2016, 10:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
You appear to have the orange medium cushions. You may want to get a set of green soft cones to play with. Mix 'n' match as it were. Also, the wheels in the pic look like the SG "interceptors" from back when if 1 groove is good 2 must be better era.

The adjustment in the top pic (back??) is obviously tighter than the bottom pic (front??). While there is nothing wrong with that in particular, it may induce one tighter end to break a bit sooner.

Play with the adjustment, that is free... (Don't forget to loosen the grub screw before adjusting and tighten after.. No I am not trying to insult your intelligence.. On the other hand, I cannot count how many of those actions I have had to fix due to NOT correctly loosening and tightening the grub screw.)
Hey doc,yes those are the new ceptors that I was going to try to get rid of.the wheels in question are the embossed vanguard interceptors.also,a good point that you brought up,I too was thinking about running a "more balanced"action setting .alsoone thing to note is that the wheels did seem to improve towards the end of the session!
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Old December 20th, 2016, 10:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
You appear to have the orange medium cushions. You may want to get a set of green soft cones to play with. Mix 'n' match as it were. Also, the wheels in the pic look like the SG "interceptors" from back when if 1 groove is good 2 must be better era.

The adjustment in the top pic (back??) is obviously tighter than the bottom pic (front??). While there is nothing wrong with that in particular, it may induce one tighter end to break a bit sooner.

Play with the adjustment, that is free... (Don't forget to loosen the grub screw before adjusting and tighten after.. No I am not trying to insult your intelligence.. On the other hand, I cannot count how many of those actions I have had to fix due to NOT correctly loosening and tightening the grub screw.)
Well I can say from experience that those wheels in the past when they were newer,would have a good amount of grip and where fast wheels!
Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
I have some older wheels that slide like crazy. I re-grooved them and it did not improve things. Another member suggested machining more off the diameter. In my case I don't think that would work. The wheels also slid 25 years ago when I last used they. My conclusion is some urethane does not stick, and durometer has little to do with it.
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Old December 20th, 2016, 10:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wired View Post
Maybe so but I have regroved a bunch of old wheels and it always improved grip. And usually smoothed the ride.

.
I'm hoping this is going to be the case!
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 06:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossman76 View Post
Well I can say from experience that those wheels in the past when they were newer,would have a good amount of grip and where fast wheels!
I don't know what type skating you do. I do general type, figures, and artistic dance. Some of the dances require very deep edging. I had the problem of doing edging where the wheel actually felt like is was skidding (Like car in a turn). My coach couldn't help me. I have dealt with one vendor on the internet.
It took them a few days, called me with a wheel that might solve the problem
I was skating on hard suprime wheels. They suggest using the extra supreme wheel. Difference is that wheel is hard, but on the edges they have a soft are around the wheel----the only time you notice that is when doing a very deep edge. No slipping or sliding now!!!
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 06:56 PM   #18
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Smile Sir Dutch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossman76 View Post
Okay,so last night was my first night back to the rink in 25 years.i had a lot of fun,but I need to work a little more and get my action dialed in,but the real problem was my wheels.the would break loose very easily ,to the point of being dangerous.

I was very fortunate to find the exact setup that I used to skate when I was younger.the setup consist of a white 395 boot ,proline plates and embossed vanguard interceptor wheels.

Basically the problem was that anytime I put any real pressure,pushing on the wheels they would break loose vey easily.this in turn made me very slow and completely unpredictable while skating.it almost made the floor feel dusty and I know it's not.it a very nice rink to skate at.

The wheels are obviously very old and probably hardened over from sitting for 20 years or so.i did notice that they were getting a little better towards the end of the session.but the still wouldn't really even make any grip noise from a hockey stop.they have grooves as they were new ,so that's no the problem.

I just wanted to get some suggestions on what I should do.i am going to purchase some Scotts but that's going to be a ways out until he's ready to make me a set.lmk what you guys think.im probably going to buy another emergency set of wheels.

Oh,btw.my weight is a good bit higher that when I was younger.i used to skate this setup at 185lbs and now I'm 225..so I'll need a higher duro wheel for sure if I can't get these interceptors where they feel good.

Sorry for the long winded post!
-Ross-
Have you discussed the wheel problems with the local rink? They may have a couple of ideas. If not, or they don't work. After 20years sitting around I probably would invest in new wheels, bearings. Have your rink check everything on the plate!!!
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Old December 26th, 2016, 04:02 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossman76 View Post
I'm hoping this is going to be the case!
The wheels I had difficulty with were fairly cheap to begin with. If your wheels had good grip you can likely get it back. In same cases I have seen a color change between the hard exposed surface and the inner plastic.
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Old December 26th, 2016, 12:14 PM   #20
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Slap some green shamans on there and don't look back...
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