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Old December 18th, 2016, 09:19 PM   #21
fierocious1
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Default Finally back into the shop.

needed t slot nuts for my vise, made up studs from carriage bolts. Had some T slot nuts for smaller table slots but they were too big slightly, resized them to fit. Then finished bolting down the plate fixtures that are in the pic. So vise is bolted, fixures are bolted and but not aligned(squared with the table travel). Getting there!! Bear with me, this might take a while with all the distractions and issues that we have been having around here lately.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 01:04 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ursle View Post
This link
https://www.skates.com/Sure-Grip-Rol...ssic-p/csh.htm
Leads to a retail site selling skate HANGERS, it has four listed, two actual skate hangers and mistakenly, it shows two daughter boards

Not that it matters...but let me again explain the difference between the Royal D/A45 truck (including the hanger) which is a true D/A45 truck and the trucks being mounted on the NEW, avengers, which are copied exactly from the original MAGNUM which is an S/A45 plate, which was cobbled into doing duty as a D/A45 plate.
You didn't explain anything here.

I was waiting for an actual explanation on the differences between da45 trucks and the royal trucks.

Also, making a new part by moving the truck yoke location, allowing it to run as a "DA" instead of an "SA" doesn't make it cobbled at all. It was designed for the purpose of, not modified. With your reasoning, every skate part aside from an original, is cobbled. The arius is a cobbled micro star, and all kingpin plates are cobbled. Lol
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Old December 21st, 2016, 12:08 PM   #23
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You didn't explain anything here.

I was waiting for an actual explanation on the differences between da45 trucks and the royal trucks.

Also, making a new part by moving the truck yoke location, allowing it to run as a "DA" instead of an "SA" doesn't make it cobbled at all. It was designed for the purpose of, not modified. With your reasoning, every skate part aside from an original, is cobbled. The arius is a cobbled micro star, and all kingpin plates are cobbled. Lol
Try to keep up
Royal trucks are D/A45

Cobbing the S/A45 truck on the plate it was designed for, to be a D/A45 truck is cobbing, not difficult to understand, shall I explain again?
Yes, troll the arius.

Btw, the avenger, copied from the magnum (which started as an S/A45 and was cobbed into a D/A45, got it yet? ) has pressed in king pins, but it's still a better plate then the Aries
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Old December 21st, 2016, 02:18 PM   #24
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A MONTANA LAWMAKER tapped by President-elect Donald Trump to be secretary of the interior committed travel fraud when he was a member of the elite Navy SEAL Team 6, according to three former unit leaders and a military consultant.

In announcing the nomination of Republican Rep. Ryan Zinke, a retired Navy SEAL commander, Trump praised his military background. “As a former Navy SEAL, he has incredible leadership skills and an attitude of doing whatever it takes to win,” Trump said last week.

But when Zinke was a mid-career officer at SEAL Team 6, he was caught traveling multiple times to Montana in 1998 and 1999 to renovate his home. Zinke claimed that the travel was for official duties, according to the sources.

He submitted travel vouchers and was compensated for the travel costs.

Two SEAL officers investigated Zinke’s records and discovered a yearslong “pattern of travel fraud,” according to two of the sources. When confronted about the trips, Zinke acknowledged that he spent the time repairing and restoring a home in Whitefish, Montana, and visiting his mother, according to two retired SEAL Team 6 leaders. The future lawmaker eventually told SEAL leaders that the Montana house was where he intended to live after he retired from the Navy.

After Zinke was caught and warned, he continued to travel home and submit the expenses to the Navy. The offense would normally have been serious enough to have ended Zinke’s career, but senior officers at SEAL Team 6 did not formally punish him. Zinke could have been referred for criminal charges, or subjected to a nonjudicial proceeding that would have censured him, likely removing him from the unit. Neither of those things happened, and he was allowed to finish his assignment at the elite unit.

While he received no formal punishment, he was told he would not be allowed to return to the elite unit for future assignments, according to the sources. Zinke continued his career, and he was eventually promoted to Navy commander, the rank he retired at in 2008.

A retired SEAL Team 6 leader said that Zinke wasn’t punished because of concerns over the impact on his family if he was pushed out of the Navy or had his rank reduced.

According to a former SEAL Team 6 leader, the officer who submitted evidence documenting Zinke’s misconduct was “incensed” that he wasn’t punished. Three of the sources said the lack of formal punishment was part of a tradition at SEAL Team 6 of avoiding scandal and failing to adequately hold its officers accountable for criminal behavior and other misconduct.

Zinke was elected to Congress in 2014 as a Republican and was expected to challenge Montana’s democratic senator in 2018.

He has spoken publicly about his career, including in a book published last month about his time in the Navy SEALs. The book details his deployments to Bosnia in the late 1990s as part of SEAL Team 6, but does not mention the misconduct that led to his leaving the unit.

Neither Zinke nor the Trump transition team responded to a request for comment.

Update: Dec. 20, 2016

During his 2014 campaign for Congress, Zinke released his military records, which detail two incidents of unapproved travel to Montana. The June 14, 1999 evaluation cited “lapses in judgement” for travel. Zinke told the Missoulian newspaper that the two trips were taken to scout for possible training locations, and that he was ordered to repay $211 for a flight from Virginia to Montana. Zinke defended his travel to Montana as legitimate, but told the newspaper he was “a little aggressive for a junior officer.”

According to three sources familiar with Zinke’s record at SEAL Team 6, the training research was the excuse he used for the travel, but later admitted to senior SEAL officers that he had, in fact, gone to restore his home. Those same sources said there were more than the two occasions cited in his records, and that SEAL Team 6 officers documented multiple incidents involving fraudulent travel.

All of the sources quoted by The Intercept asked for anonymity because nearly every facet of SEAL Team 6 is classified.
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Old December 21st, 2016, 04:19 PM   #25
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You cant even keep your posts in the appropriate threads lol and you expect people to believe that a truck INTENDED to be used in a DA45 setup is a cobbed job.


I know a Royal truck is a DA truck. Not sure where you got the idea that anyone thought it was SA.

You would be 100% correct if it was a SA truck being used as a DA scheme. Then of course things would not line up as intended, or there would have to be other modification to the assembly. That would be cobbed.


Eh, this isn't a debate about the advantages/disadvantages of the avenger vs the arius. The only relation was to your thinkibg all these "da45" plates are just "cobbed" from an SA, and if thats the case you would say the Arius and immortal Idrive, are just "cobbed" versions of the microstar(which I think there was an even earlier stab at that setup, not sure on history past microstars)
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:35 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
You cant even keep your posts in the appropriate threads lol and you expect people to believe that a truck INTENDED to be used in a DA45 setup is a cobbed job.


I know a Royal truck is a DA truck. Not sure where you got the idea that anyone thought it was SA.

You would be 100% correct if it was a SA truck being used as a DA scheme. Then of course things would not line up as intended, or there would have to be other modification to the assembly. That would be cobbed.


Eh, this isn't a debate about the advantages/disadvantages of the avenger vs the arius. The only relation was to your thinkibg all these "da45" plates are just "cobbed" from an SA, and if thats the case you would say the Arius and immortal Idrive, are just "cobbed" versions of the microstar(which I think there was an even earlier stab at that setup, not sure on history past microstars)
Examples Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object), cobbled, cobbling.
1.
to mend (shoes, boots, etc.); patch.
2.
to put together roughly or clumsily.
Origin of cobble1 Expand
1490-15001490-1500; apparently back formation from cobbler
cobble2
[kob-uh l]
Spell Syllables
noun
1.
a cobblestone.
2.
cobbles, coal in lumps larger than a pebble and smaller than a boulder.
3.
Metalworking.
a defect in a rolled piece resulting from loss of control over its movement.
Slang. a piece showing bad workmanship.
verb (used with object), cobbled, cobbling.
4.
to pave with cobblestones.
Origin Expand
1595-1605; perhaps cob + -le; see cobblestone
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2016.
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Examples from the Web for cobble Expand
Contemporary Examples
Check out Le Marais, one of the oldest quarters of the city, where gay-friendly establishments line the winding cobbled lanes.

The Ultimate LGBT Travel Bucket List
December 11, 2014
Like Tracks or The Promise, High Hopes has been cobbled together from castoffs.

‘High Hopes’ Review: Bruce Springsteen Lowers the Bar
Andrew Romano
January 6, 2014
After multiple rejections, he cobbled together enough money for a limited double-blind trial that began last year.

How Big Pharma Holds Back in the War on Cancer
ProPublica



I would think that the interpretation is that it would be roughly put together. However, the trucks were not roughly put together. There had to be a lot of engineering to make the mold, draw up the prints, set up the fixtures and finish the product. Now if the trucks were ground out by hand with a grinder, saws and other tools without being able to duplicate from a specific process, I would consider that cobbled. Which is not the case. It takes considerable time and resources to make the DA45 trucks initially, then make the tooling up to produce them, then retest. Cobbled would be a one off and rough by description. IF the plates I am planning on making to test are the only set and the machines were not dedicated to making them, that could be considered cobbled, but much nicer than that. Some people don't like the word cobbled, consider it derogatory. Well, all I can say it that SG put forth the effort and the setup works great, cobbled, naaahhh..

A certain amount of cobbling may be necessary for prototypes that lead to finished production pieces though. I would say nearly all skate parts are cobbled in that stage of development.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 12:41 PM   #27
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I simply point out that the magnums (and newer replicas), after being converted from S/A45 to D/A45 no longer have four wheels touching when they are not weighted on a table or floor, while the royals do.

Cobbed
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 03:24 PM   #28
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Thumbs down Guess ursle has not looked lately..

Quote:
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I simply point out that the magnums (and newer replicas), after being converted from S/A45 to D/A45 no longer have four wheels touching when they are not weighted on a table or floor, while the royals do.

Cobbed
Ancient history. The match plate defect that caused this problem @ the foundry was not caught until the first 21st century run of trucks was well underway. Any of the round hole trucks will have the issue to some degree..

I have three pair of Avengers here, two pair I roll and one pair my wife rolls. All three pair sit flat, just fine. I know, I just went out to the shop and checked.
How can that be?? They all have the later oval hole trucks.

Take my word for it... Don't make me waste my time taking pix.

BTW folks... This pathetic cob job of a plate has attracted some... uh... shall I say sincere flatterers?? The trucks from the 45° Chaya Shiva are a drop on if you use the Chaya Barrel and retainer, which means they should retrofit any SG SA plate. Too bad the MSRP for a set of these lovely forged 8mm flip axle trucks is 198.00 plus shipping.

Soon as I get my hands on a Roller Derby Elite Axis, I will check out the interchangeability there as well...

@ Mort. The earliest patent I have located so far for the "Arius" style action is 307826 Nov 11 1884.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 05:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ursle View Post
I simply point out that the magnums (and newer replicas), after being converted from S/A45 to D/A45 no longer have four wheels touching when they are not weighted on a table or floor, while the royals do.

Cobbed
My wheels sit on the floor. No issues here.... even if they did not sit perfectly on the floor they are still one of the best skate values on the planet. Great handling at an affordable price. If you don't like the handling, it can be tuned to your liking, in most cases it takes time. Some people never give them a chance.
If I have reinstalled used cushions, they may not sit flat on the floor. But nearly all skates will do that with old cushions.....

Last edited by fierocious1; December 23rd, 2016 at 01:10 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 02:20 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ursle View Post
I simply point out that the magnums (and newer replicas), after being converted from S/A45 to D/A45 no longer have four wheels touching when they are not weighted on a table or floor, while the royals do.

Cobbed
I've seen sunlite trucks and plates do this , stock, from the factory, brand new, with good wheels. All it takes is a bad mold, not a bad design.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 02:38 PM   #31
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My wheels sit on the floor. No issues here.... even if they did not sit perfectly on the floor they are still one of the best skate values on the planet. Great handling at an affordable price. If you don't like the handling, it can be tuned to your liking, in most cases it takes time. Some people never give them a chance.
If I have reinstalled used cushions, they may not sit flat on the floor. But nearly all skates will do that with old cushions.....
I agree, I have a set of ti nts royals and a magnesium magnum with ti axles, I skate the magnums, the royals are anchors, so, now that my point is made, let me again say, if your going to make a nice plate, why not use the royal geometry rather than the magnum, which if your going to put on S/A45 trucks would be fine, but not so fine with D/A45 trucks.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 03:20 PM   #32
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I agree, I have a set of ti nts royals and a magnesium magnum with ti axles, I skate the magnums, the royals are anchors, so, now that my point is made, let me again say, if your going to make a nice plate, why not use the royal geometry rather than the magnum, which if your going to put on S/A45 trucks would be fine, but not so fine with D/A45 trucks.
I look for a specific property in the trucks geometry. If Royals geometry fits my requirements, maybe I'll make up a set of plates. At this point I have no idea what the geometry of a Royal plate is. SG DA45s are working just fine. I don't see the issue you say they exhibit. Non issue as far as I see. All kinds of geometries can be had out there on trucks. What it comes down to is finished product caster, cushion hardness and configuration, whether using rubber pivot cups or delron, cushion shape. After all the stuff I have dealt with so far, I don't see kingpin angle as being a huge culprit everyone is making it out to be. Truck geometry lends itself to change or not. Some configurations do not lend itself to tuning other than softness of cushions, so they are restrictive and you have to work within those limitations. I like options and so far SG DA45 trucks have he most tunablility of all, at least until I see another truck that looks similar to it.
I also believe I can tune somewhat a SA45 truck as well. Right now I'm tuning nothing, broken bone in my right foot has stopped my skating.
I would need a side view from the axle end(end looking at you) to see whether or not it fits my agenda. I can test on the analyzer though, so it really can be looked at if needed. But it would require a plate with two trucks complete to test.
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Old December 25th, 2016, 12:26 AM   #33
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Default back to the hobby....

Got to get back into the man cave today! Did alignments on fixtures and started on the plates.


Drilling and counter boring the plates. For inline boots only. Easy boot alignment with the bases of the boot being slotted. A 165mm pair, a 195mm pair and a long frame for some additional skateboard testing, also a 195mm pair. The numbers here are for the boot mounting distance. The 165mm mounting plates will be the shortest around 7.75 axle center.


making 3 pairs of plates.


Step 4 done on all pairs. Angle mill the cushion base. Making shavings!

May be Monday before I get back on them though. Still trying to decide how much lightening to do on the plates. Lots of holes or slots, hmmmm...

of course the pics rotated again.....grr
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Old December 25th, 2016, 03:57 PM   #34
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Short slots, long vacancies of metal lead to weakness. Large holes would be stronger as there is a "brace" between holes. Possibly going to slot out the inside from the top, not a continuous slot though. Then drill holes with countersinking the edges. It would be stronger but remain light. Got to get rid of some metal to account for the extra long kingpins. Wall thickness is the next thing in question....

Add these boots and my flips that returned home.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 01:27 AM   #35
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Default Update... :)



Not finished, but usable. Still need to deflash and buff down extra metal. Polish the aluminum some. Not going to paint or powdercoat.



My shaved and cut down white magnum plates. No kingpins, just bare plates, 7 3/4" axle centerline.



Quad Conversion plate for mounting on 195mm inline boots. SG DA45 configuration. 8"+ axle centerline. Still have a little weight to lose but not much. Possibly 4 more holes to drill out. I thought that slots would weaken the frame too much and decided to drill holes instead. Holes leave bracing behind to help keep the frame rigid, slots do not. So the holes are fairly large. Anyway the frame is aluminum. Hope to test them Sunday and get my skate legs back. Foot is good to go now and I am ready to get back on my wheels. Set up will be with Green Shamans, some shimming required I imagine once I get there but not much, as the caster is set up for slower turning to start with so I can work up to what I like. CAN'T wait!

To tomorrow cleaning and deburring and locktite in the kingpins.

Couple more pics.



195mm mounting holes line up.



lined up with boot on top of the plate.



Closer look with candy spacer..

Last edited by fierocious1; December 29th, 2016 at 02:49 AM.
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Old December 29th, 2016, 10:17 AM   #36
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Default looking good

i see youve no need for big magnum paddles on a solid carbon boot so that a weight savings .When i mounted inline boots with a high ankle like that i found i couldnt lean over enough to suit the sharp turn and i felt myself highsiding a bit .
What is your setup for stopping the higher ankle leaning the plate over ,is it harder cushions?
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Old December 29th, 2016, 11:46 AM   #37
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i see youve no need for big magnum paddles on a solid carbon boot so that a weight savings .When i mounted inline boots with a high ankle like that i found i couldnt lean over enough to suit the sharp turn and i felt myself highsiding a bit .
What is your setup for stopping the higher ankle leaning the plate over ,is it harder cushions?
If you are highsiding, the plates need a caster adjustment IMO.Which plate are you using? Remove jump bar if you are using them. Go to thinner washer instead of the cushion cup at the plate, ON SG DA45. The R4 boot I had been using have the higher top. These are R2s and are lower top than the R4s. But I just have not had any problem with leaning over my plates. I will be running the same cushion configuration as I have in the past, these plates are milled to those same specs. Just like the SST project had.. below.



I'll adjust caster once I get on the floor and see how they perform. Harder cushions are not an option for me. Caster can be adjusted to make the skates turn as you wish with soft cushions. With my weight I cannot use upper cushions that contact the trucks harder than yellows and I use harder cushions that contact the plate, purples. When the yellow cones compression begins to build, the purple cones give way and start compressing. This keeps the cushion compression from causing binding. The shape of the cushions help as well. The hourglass configuration allows the cushions to compress more at the narrow ends. Then the caster is allowed to do it's thing and control the input/output ratio. Be comfortable with your cushion resistance and let the caster/pivot angle do it's job correctly. Not all skate plates are capable of these mods, especially in stock form. Short cushions = cushion bind during hard turning or long low pushes. Urethane has to have a place to go when compressed, if it is restricted you have increased pressure due to resistance.
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Old December 30th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #38
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Default I see youve already ran the boots on another plate

i ran micro boots on a champion precision plate 10 degree ish with stabilser bar nolothane soft bushes from burson auto strores.
then i went from that to sinlites with a low cut soccer boot ,which was a shock at first but i ended up liking that better than the high boot {indoors of course}.
Well changing the caster explanes why you dont have any probs.
Will be interesting to see how the plates look polished
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Old December 30th, 2016, 02:21 AM   #39
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i ran micro boots on a champion precision plate 10 degree ish with stabilser bar nolothane soft bushes from burson auto strores.
then i went from that to sinlites with a low cut soccer boot ,which was a shock at first but i ended up liking that better than the high boot {indoors of course}.
Well changing the caster explanes why you dont have any probs.
Will be interesting to see how the plates look polished
These are new boots, shorter than the other pair I have been using. They look almost identical but one pair is high top and the other is lower. Both use the same foot bed style. These cut off just above the ankle bone. The others were much higher. One pair is R2, the other R4(older pair).
I like dictating how aggressive the handling is, then make the cushions as soft as you want them. Skating is much more fun that way. Going to put back together the SSTs and this pair of boots(R2s Powerslide) on the new plate tomorrow. Both will have Green Shamans. I installed the studs tonight after buffing off all sharp edges. May be a while before I get them really polished up but they do look better now. Once put together, I'll share a few pics. Also am using very long kingpins, these are necessary for some more cushion tests and trucks tests. Going to play with single action 45 trucks to test some more theories out. See if I can tame them somewhat.
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Old January 1st, 2017, 02:07 AM   #40
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Default Skating tomorrow!



Hourglass configuration of taper cushions.



Closer look. Longer kingpins for testing various cushion configurations.



Looking like they are skatable...



Thanks to the wife, got ahold of my old flips again. I think it will be my best rig so far. Testing will continue....
I have some hardware to add and remove for various testing and nylon parts to make it happen, but for the most part these are done. The boots are easily aligned on the frame due to the slots in the bottoms of the boots, so careful alignment is only needed when finished and can easily be adjusted later without redrilling the boots. Did not have time to polish but I did sand them some and it did help the appearance.

The rear axle placement is exactly where my last White Magnums were and the Long SSTs were. The fronts are very forward but not near as much as the SSTs(8 3/8"). New axle center @ 8 1/16".

Hope ya'll like them. I know I will!

Last edited by fierocious1; January 1st, 2017 at 04:08 AM.
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