S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Speed Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 9th, 2016, 04:53 PM   #1
whiskey02
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 60
Default Sport is dead, true competition is a thing of the past

Another (box of) nails in the coffin of sportsmanship. Seems a waste of time and effort to pit yourself against anything but your own previous best effort. Doping from high school, if not earlier, to pro/world class level has devalued competition to the point that scientists and chemists should be getting the medals and athletes should get a "certificate of participation" card.
It's so hard to cheer for anyone anymore, it's just pathetic and sad.


From the news today:

An anti-doping report has found that more than 1,000 Russian athletes were involved in state-sponsored doping, and that the "institutional conspiracy" extended far beyond previous evidence of cheating at the Sochi Olympics in 2014.

The findings, published Friday, were accompanied by more than 1,000 individual documents released to the public as evidence (with athletes' names redacted). Russian officials have responded with "predetermined defiance," Charles Maynes reports for NPR from Moscow, with multiple agencies rejecting the findings as false.

The report is the second and final part of an investigation carried out by Canadian law professor Richard McLaren on behalf of the World Anti-Doping Agency. It describes a "systematic and centralised cover up and manipulation of the doping control process."
Report: Russia Used 'Mouse Hole' To Swap Urine Samples Of Olympic Athletes
The Torch
Report: Russia Used 'Mouse Hole' To Swap Urine Samples Of Olympic Athletes

In July, McLaren issued an initial report that focused on doping at the Sochi Olympics. At the time, he said that a "highly compressed timeline" — the report was researched and published in less than two months, going public shortly before the Rio Olympics — had forced him to be selective in what he analyzed.

The latest report is much broader in scope. It stands by the findings of the first investigation and concludes that systematic cheating — including urine-swapping to pass doping tests — also took place at the London 2012 Olympics, the Universiade Games 2013 and the Moscow IAAF World Championships in 2013.

"The Russian Olympic team corrupted the London Games 2012 on an unprecedented scale, the extent of which will probably never be fully established," the report states, describing the use of prohibited substances and various efforts to conceal the practice.
"These activities were supported by senior Russian officials, including the Minister and Deputy Minister of Sport, senior and national team coaches, RUSADA, the CSP and the Moscow Laboratory," it continues. "The desire to win medals superseded their collective moral and ethical compass and Olympic values of fair play."
At The U.S. Olympic Trials, Mixed Opinions About Russian Doping Scandal
The Torch
At The U.S. Olympic Trials, Mixed Opinions About Russian Doping Scandal
whiskey02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2016, 11:10 PM   #2
AZ Roadrunner
Senior Member
 
AZ Roadrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 263
Default

Sochi was a dead give away, that was too obvious as Russia won almost everything. Anyone that knows anything about doping realized what was going on. Big money in sports, take the money out of sports and it will start to clean up. The summer Olympics we saw more examples of doping, some were caught others not.

Like doping, the judging in sports is just as corrupt, in all sports, politics and money all play a role.

Sports will never be 100 % clean, too many politicians involved now. Sports is now like politics, very dirty and ugly.
__________________
Pinnacle Stealth boots, 3 X 125 EO frames. Chandler, AZ
AZ Roadrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2016, 05:45 AM   #3
gopherfan
RealMilk.org
 
gopherfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 364
Default

I don't feel old, but I am reminded every time I realize how many people don't remember the Cold War. Back then, sports domination was a form of propaganda for communist countries. In 1988, President Reagan visited the U.S.S.R. which included the current country of Russia. Recognize the plain clothes KGB officer dressed as a tourist with the camera? No, this wasn't about money, but rather is intertwined with that picture.
gopherfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2016, 02:13 PM   #4
kentek
Senior Member
 
kentek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 380
Default Take the controls off

The drug enhancement thing will reach diminishing returns. When the athletes start dying on the track, maybe they will rethink their position.
kentek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2016, 03:07 PM   #5
AZ Roadrunner
Senior Member
 
AZ Roadrunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 263
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentek View Post
The drug enhancement thing will reach diminishing returns. When the athletes start dying on the track, maybe they will rethink their position.
But this hasn't been the case. As in most all sports winning brings many rewards, to some it's worth the risk of a shortened life. For many decades cheating and drug use has been in sports, and it will continue.

Winning athletes can earn enough money to financially enrich their family for generations. History shows this to be the case with many athletes that died young but left behind a financial legacy for generations, the list of names is very long. Organs that fail in a top athlete when they hit their late 40's and 50's is common.

All sports has a drug issue, always has and always will. The risk reward is worth the returns for those young enough to not know better. All sports has the skinny guy that puts on 15-30 LB of muscle in a short period of time and becomes the power hitter, the power running back or out skates everyone. Peanut butter and jam sandwiches didn't do this, nor did natural growth...

To say this will stop isn't real, it's been in sports for 100 years, everyone is looking for an advantage. The risk reward is still worth it.
__________________
Pinnacle Stealth boots, 3 X 125 EO frames. Chandler, AZ
AZ Roadrunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2016, 10:40 PM   #6
ursle
Street Skater
 
ursle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 2,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Roadrunner View Post
But this hasn't been the case. As in most all sports winning brings many rewards, to some it's worth the risk of a shortened life. For many decades cheating and drug use has been in sports, and it will continue.

Winning athletes can earn enough money to financially enrich their family for generations. History shows this to be the case with many athletes that died young but left behind a financial legacy for generations, the list of names is very long. Organs that fail in a top athlete when they hit their late 40's and 50's is common.

All sports has a drug issue, always has and always will. The risk reward is worth the returns for those young enough to not know better. All sports has the skinny guy that puts on 15-30 LB of muscle in a short period of time and becomes the power hitter, the power running back or out skates everyone. Peanut butter and jam sandwiches didn't do this, nor did natural growth...

To say this will stop isn't real, it's been in sports for 100 years, everyone is looking for an advantage. The risk reward is still worth it.
Excellent post, how true, we have two eyes on the front of our head, we are hunter seekers, we cheat to live.
ursle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2016, 11:08 PM   #7
evilzzz
Senior Member
 
evilzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London UK
Posts: 850
Default

This is why I'm not at all ar$ed about skating or anything I really care about being in the Olympics or not. At the end of the day sport is what YOU make of it. When I compete it is only really against myself.
If you're a professional sportsman then you have a right to worry about it, if you are just a weekend warrior then seriously... life's too short.
__________________
http://enduranceskating.com
evilzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2016, 01:16 AM   #8
tom91381
them my leggs
 
tom91381's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Santa Clarita, Ca.
Posts: 30
Default

Time to return the amateur portion in many of those events
tom91381 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2016, 10:20 AM   #9
Derrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Northeastern Indiana
Posts: 1,202
Default My take on competition

So... my story.

I was playing basketball for 15 years with my Uncle and his son who went on to play in a small college. Well, one day we were playing and my cousin say,"Say's. you know you always turn right and your easy to guard." I found they both knew this for years and just went on exploiting it.

So, my philosophy, "If you see a weakness in your opponent and do not teach him you have not beaten him; you have exploited him. You will never know the outcome of a fair competition."

Not that I. could have beaten him, he's a foot taller than me. But I might of been better competition for them.

I've seen this alot also in Little League where one with influence gets the best coach for their kid using political power. This takes the coach from others with perhaps more potential. Or, if the kid doesn't measure up, send him to camp that others don't have access too. And eventually this kid is the "best". What? I thought we were playing baseball, we already know the outcome of who's the lawyers kid; we don't need a competition for that.


Sports, at any level, is rarely about sport.
__________________
- %___O
------ L
Derrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2016, 06:52 PM   #10
Trixton
Senior Member
 
Trixton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 394
Default

I have mixed views on this.

On the one hand, there's the corrupt, doping side of competitive sports at the higest level where drama and a lust for power, prestige, and money takes a dominant role.

On the other hand, there is the personal sport. That is, you and those around living their everyday lives, making a living, paying bills, eating well, raising kids, having fun, training, competing, doing your best (or close to it).

Sometimes I feel that sport is taken too seriously. Advance the sport in one way, regress in other ways. There's always that duality, the yin and the yang.
Trixton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2016, 01:33 AM   #11
SkateMO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 967
Default

I've often wondered how widespread "drug use" is in speed skating. As someone that has competed in the elite ranks, I truly have no gauge on who does it of if anyone does it. Are there 3 or 4 guys doping or 20 or none at all? I really have no idea. I would actually love to know. If I had to guess, on the national scale, there really isn't enough to gain in our sport to take those kinds of risks with your body (or even your integrity and reputation), but maybe. However, I do think there is a lot of "steroid use" happening with high school kids, and college athletes, and even your average joe at the gym. I see some guys that are unnaturally ripped working out. Having trained very hard for sports over the course of my life, I've come to realize that you don't look insanely ripped / fit unless you are dedicating some serious time to your craft or unless you are dedicating a decent amount of time, combined with some type of performance enhancing drug. I could be wrong about that, but it's just my opinion. I've never taken a single substance of any kind at any time in my life, so I honestly have no idea how impactful drugs are. But, I've been told by people who are coaches and trainers and athletes that drugs work exceptionally well if you combine them with high-levels of training. I personally think that drug use in sports is a terrible thing and any athlete who is caught should be banned for life. Reason being is because it changes the playing field...and, I don't think me or my kids or my friends or anyone else should have to debate whether or not to negatively influence their body, just to compete and achieve their dreams (in whatever sport they choose). I don't think drugs should ever be an option for anyone...even some of the milder things (such as creatine).
SkateMO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2016, 03:24 AM   #12
Trixton
Senior Member
 
Trixton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 394
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkateMO View Post
I see some guys that are unnaturally ripped working out. Having trained very hard for sports over the course of my life, I've come to realize that you don't look insanely ripped / fit unless you are dedicating some serious time to your craft or unless you are dedicating a decent amount of time, combined with some type of performance enhancing drug. I could be wrong about that, but it's just my opinion.
Keep in mind that bodybuilding is a sport in itself and the goal of the sport is to achieve a certain visual appeal. Muscle size, tone, and proportion are what they are judged on. Even elite level distance runners in general have a higher body fat percentage than top bodybuilders. Performance oriented sports have much different requirements and require a more balanced approach.
Trixton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2016, 12:56 PM   #13
whiskey02
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
So... my story.

I was playing basketball for 15 years with my Uncle and his son who went on to play in a small college. Well, one day we were playing and my cousin say,"Say's. you know you always turn right and your easy to guard." I found they both knew this for years and just went on exploiting it.

So, my philosophy, "If you see a weakness in your opponent and do not teach him you have not beaten him; you have exploited him. You will never know the outcome of a fair competition."

Not that I. could have beaten him, he's a foot taller than me. But I might of been better competition for them.

I've seen this alot also in Little League where one with influence gets the best coach for their kid using political power. This takes the coach from others with perhaps more potential. Or, if the kid doesn't measure up, send him to camp that others don't have access too. And eventually this kid is the "best". What? I thought we were playing baseball, we already know the outcome of who's the lawyers kid; we don't need a competition for that.


Sports, at any level, is rarely about sport.
I have to disagree with you about not capitalizing on an opponent's weakness; that IS sport. If your opponent has a great sprint but is not a good climber, you hammer him on the last hill and TT to the finish line. I played hockey years ago and the friend I played most often with was a goalie. I figured out his weakness was around his right elbow, if I could get a shot in the air near his elbow I had a good chance of scoring. After a few weeks of exploiting my discovery I got another goal and he just said to me " you found my weak spot". It got more difficult after that, he knew what to work on. I sure didn't tell him I found this, he figured it out.
whiskey02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2016, 03:09 PM   #14
Trixton
Senior Member
 
Trixton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 394
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey02 View Post
I have to disagree with you about not capitalizing on an opponent's weakness; that IS sport. If your opponent has a great sprint but is not a good climber, you hammer him on the last hill and TT to the finish line. I played hockey years ago and the friend I played most often with was a goalie. I figured out his weakness was around his right elbow, if I could get a shot in the air near his elbow I had a good chance of scoring. After a few weeks of exploiting my discovery I got another goal and he just said to me " you found my weak spot". It got more difficult after that, he knew what to work on. I sure didn't tell him I found this, he figured it out.
I think "for the sake of sport" that it's fun to play to an opponent's strengths, assuming the goal isn't strictly winning. But I also think "for the sake of sport" that it's fun to play to the opponent's weakness because part of the challenge is finding that weakness in the first place. So for me it goes both ways, and it depends on your goals (and the sport) too. Maybe in training, you want a more challenging opponent so you play right into their strengths. Or maybe you are more advanced so you allow the challenger an opportunity, not by going easy but by playing into their strengths. Or if you are the weaker, try as much as you can to exploit your opponents weakpoints. If you are equally matched, that's where you can get a good rivalry going, each playing into each other's strengths and weaknesses in turn. The goal shouldn't always be set on winning and destroying your opponent at all times IMO. But say you get a rivalry started, then you can both exploit each other's weaknesses and build each other up by strengthening your weaknesses. Many athletes have turned weaknesses into strengths in just this manner.
Trixton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2016, 01:54 PM   #15
Derrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Northeastern Indiana
Posts: 1,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey02 View Post
I have to disagree with you about not capitalizing on an opponent's weakness; that IS sport.
Most people do disagree with me. My son and I have had a ping pong table for years. Only once did we keep score. We play all the rules except who is to serve. We are actually quite good. But it may be art, not sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey02 View Post
a few weeks of exploiting my discovery I got another goal and he just said to me " you found my weak spot". It got more difficult after that, he knew what to work on.
I suppose your playing at a level that someone else should of pointed this out to him. And that's what you all signed up for.


But games between freinds or intermural where the teams change all the time. I'll stick to my phylosiphy. You don't just go beating the same poor slob over and over when thee is help for it.
__________________
- %___O
------ L
Derrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2017, 02:41 AM   #16
slowsk8
Senior Member
 
slowsk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tukwila, just south of Seattle
Posts: 1,929
Default

In friendly sport, let him know what he is doing wrong, but if he keeps doing it well....
slowsk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 2nd, 2017, 07:54 PM   #17
whiskey02
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 60
Default

Derrick said "You don't just go beating the same poor slob over and over when thee is help for it".

Have you ever played chess Derrick? If you have not and would like to "get good", the fastest way it's going to happen is to get your @ss stomped across the board many many times. That's how I got to be a fairly decent player. I played with a guy who just whipped me for 3 or 4 months straight, then i won a game, then got whipped for a month, then won another game. Eventually I'd win a couple games in a row, then lose for 5 days, etc,etc.
whiskey02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2017, 10:41 AM   #18
Derrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Northeastern Indiana
Posts: 1,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskey02 View Post
Derrick said "You don't just go beating the same poor slob over and over when thee is help for it".

Have you ever played chess Derrick? If you have not and would like to "get good", the fastest way it's going to happen is to get your @ss stomped across the board many many times. That's how I got to be a fairly decent player. I played with a guy who just whipped me for 3 or 4 months straight, then i won a game, then got whipped for a month, then won another game. Eventually I'd win a couple games in a row, then lose for 5 days, etc,etc.
Haven't played for years, but when I was best at it, I read a book on the subject. If I was getting beat I would refer back to the book, or if the oppenent was willing I'd ask him how he beat me.
__________________
- %___O
------ L
Derrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.