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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old January 25th, 2016, 04:55 AM   #21
Derrick
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Derrick - do you think you might be over analyzing this rather than just feeling it and letting it happen?

What me over analyze?

Of course I'm over analyzing; that's what I do. Well, quantity of posts to slf goes up when I skate. Keeps those advertisers happy.

As far as feeling it, oh yea, the music makes all the difference for me.


So..... anyway, (just can't quit) had an excellent day with the spin. I set my best IB ever. Can't really vouch for the number of revs. It's hard to count the times the snack bar wizzes by when your going weeeeeeeeeee.

It was my cheaty set, but it really worked this time.

Finally got a good chactaw set to the OF as well. I had that down but missed the rock over somewhat and limited the revs.

The rest of my spins were good with low revs. Actually, I'm getting much better, at least more consistent.

Thanks Rox, just keep routing for each other that's what really counts.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 05:06 AM   #22
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Default IB tip of the week

OK nothing better than a good example. There's a million ways to do something wrong making examples of what not to do pretty useless. That being said, I keep learning new stuff about the spin and forget to note it anywhere. I'll note it here just in case it helps someone else.

Once again disclaimers: I'm self-taught I could be totally wrong. If I am I hope someone more knowledgeable will post with a correction.

So the tip. When the balance foot is off to the side and you are ready to draw it in close (to increase rotational speed) don't move your foot back down close to the performing foot. Instead concentrate on moving the balance knee horizontally over so the knee is bent and the foot cones to about performing foots knee level.

I'm sure I heatd something about this somewhere but missed it until I experienced it.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 12:43 AM   #23
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Default Tip from last week

prolog (the part you can skip, well you skip the whole thing if you want, no pressure) (geeze I just tried to hit ctrl-v on my iPad, how in the heck eas I going to do that?)

I heard recently from a book my wife was listening to on cd that, "Practicing something wrong will not make you better." So I like to analyze my last practice to see what needs changed.

Anyway, so a Thursday ago I noticed that my IB entry was really a three turn. At the rock over I would have a lot of pressure on my rear inside wheel and that would pull me out of the spin quickly.

So, how to change it up. I got out my very forgiving spin trainer. It cares little where the pressure is so I can spin pretty good. I tried forcing myself in the proper edge and found balance difficult.

Sometimes the basics pass me by, either I don't get it, or I think I'm doing something and I really didn't understand it. Then bam, oh that's what they are talking about. So, for what ever reason I rewatched this video. And found excellent information on rotation in general at 36 sec. Oh yea, I've been leading with my head not my hips.
http://youtu.be/zxPEezFM89k

moving the head last helped my roation on spins and jumps (if you call half a turn a jump, technically yes, it is). I got back on the trainer and found head position really helped me stay on the proper edge. If you can call it an edge on the trainer.

But the spin it helped on skate the most was my cheaty entry. I call it that because the entry is exactly like http://youtu.be/OMH9L2GBJrw at 1:18 . But the result is much better.

So the tip. Hold the head forward don't rotate it first.
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Old February 8th, 2016, 12:47 AM   #24
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Default This weeks tip

So when I discover something wbout spinning wnd try it on skate, usually it helps some, sometimes just temporarily. I am getting better. Either theough analisis or my edges are just better. But whatever. Today I learned to wait until the outer forward edge was well set before rocking over and pullin in. I was pulling in way too early.

Now the art skater I know told to me this a long time ago, I just now got what he was talking about.

This tip seemed to help consistently. I needed to come i to the spin faster though cause the originwl edge steals some momentum. I sped it up wnd spun fairly well. I feel that this tip will help as it makes my actual spin a lot more like the trainer and I do thwt fairly well.

Last edited by Derrick; February 8th, 2016 at 01:09 AM. Reason: m
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Old February 9th, 2016, 07:28 AM   #25
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Derrick,
Man are you ever a tease. Show us the spin and the jump. sheesh!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
So when I discover something wbout spinning wnd try it on skate, usually it helps some, sometimes just temporarily. I am getting better. Either theough analisis or my edges are just better. But whatever. Today I learned to wait until the outer forward edge was well set before rocking over and pullin in. I was pulling in way too early.

Now the art skater I know told to me this a long time ago, I just now got what he was talking about.

This tip seemed to help consistently. I needed to come i to the spin faster though cause the originwl edge steals some momentum. I sped it up wnd spun fairly well. I feel that this tip will help as it makes my actual spin a lot more like the trainer and I do thwt fairly well.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 12:33 PM   #26
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Derrick,
Man are you ever a tease. Show us the spin and the jump. sheesh!
All that commitment stuff.

OK, I'll bribe Zeke (youngest; 15) with Taco Bell for videoing on Thursday.

There, committed to it.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 08:52 PM   #27
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I'll pester ya if ya don't post it.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 10:05 PM   #28
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I'll pester ya if ya don't post it.

Well if it's too embarrasing...... I'll still post it.

Bribe has been made. It cost me two Taco Bell meal deal D's and two beefy five layer burritos.

Two more days til skating time.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 10:18 AM   #29
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Looks like someone knows how to bargain... Looking forward to the vid.


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Well if it's too embarrasing...... I'll still post it.

Bribe has been made. It cost me two Taco Bell meal deal D's and two beefy five layer burritos.

Two more days til skating time.
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Old February 13th, 2016, 12:46 PM   #30
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Default Well here it is

Her it is:
http://youtu.be/9zp3_1MVXR8

Optinal notes:
production note;
Busted my pretty decent camera, the view finder is dead, so Zeke is guessing on zoom and direction. Luckily it's autofocus. A bit hard to operate when you can't see the menu.

Teenagers note;
Sam (oldest) showed up for a ride didn't want to skate. The boys got taking video games or some such thing. Zeke became pensive because he wanted to go so some video is shot like 50 miles from me. However, Sam took some additional on his phone that may be better. I will need to get access to it.

Skating quality note (excuses);

Took the video skaring cold. I shouldn't try stuff cold, it doesn't work. But Zeke and I felt a bit wierd taking video i a rink, so we wanted it out-of-the-way.
The floor seemed crowded for being uncrowded. Everyone was going sooooo slow, felt like skating in slow motion. There are some curvy moves I like to do slow, but not like for a whole song, let alone all session.
Had a busted skate. I'm on a weekend away no time to look at it.
And the sun was in my eye.


self-analysis;

My waltz jump my legs are much more spread out than I thought. Like jumping forwards. And I cheat then enrry more than I thought, I'm half turned before I jump. I often feel like like I'm falling backwards on an IB spin.

Checked the video against the last. I don't think I advanced as much as I thought, or hoped. I still check that waltz a bit, though I throw it with more confidence. The spin I see no differnce except the setup. I actually chactaw much better off the left edge going the other way, that is spinning on the right foot. But entering my right foot IB I tend to catch a wheel. Although I spin better thwt way. Hopefully Sam's video got me trying that one. Can't wait til the weather breaks and I can get video in the park. I can set the equipment up so much better there.


Off topic note,

I saw in another thread about three turns, (I didn't want to impose on it as the discussion is way above my head, great info though). The IF three turn is easier. You know I never tried it til last thursday. It does seem easier although my chicken free foot want d to just kiss the ground, although I come around quite easily.

Last edited by Derrick; February 13th, 2016 at 01:52 PM. Reason: m
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Old February 13th, 2016, 05:50 PM   #31
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Can't view video, page says it's private.
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Old February 13th, 2016, 07:15 PM   #32
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I can't view it either - get the same message as mass quads
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Old February 14th, 2016, 02:31 PM   #33
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I can't view it either - get the same message as mass quads

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Can't view video, page says it's private.
Oops sorry. Could of swore I..........) well anyway it's public now.
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Old February 14th, 2016, 11:30 PM   #34
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Now I can see it... Thanks.

Not bad but there are a few things you can do to do the spin and jump with more power and balance and confidence.

Starting with the Waltz Jump. Technically you did it. Artistically and skillfully it is a bit lacking. Not to worry, you are almost there. Technically is a very good start.

I noticed you did the waltz jump in both directions. Are you ambidextrous? Most people are right handed and they concentrate their jumps counter clockwise looking down on the jumper. You spin counter clockwise which is good. Maybe concentrate on jumping and spinning in one direction.

I noticed that while doing the jump that your trailing arm was being held back and sometimes the leading arm is doing the same. That's because you are not putting dynamic tension in your arms and keeping square. In essence you are fighting your jump with your shoulders and arms.

Just know this: This jump is much easier than you think. You are making it more difficult by fighting it. Keep square and arms tight but out. Try again but without letting the arms lag behind.


Now for the IB upright. You seem to hesitate to do the entry. One entry was started with a 2 foot spin start and then lifting up the free leg... actually several were done that way. That's ok but you will never get the power to make it look easy. Best if you can do the Mohawk (which you sometimes did) and then as you step down from the Mohawk do an outer forward to inner back 3 turn but instead of keeping a consistent edge, you have to tighten that edge very deep and make it become the spin. That 3 turn entry is the standard entry for the IB upright spin and you can get good power.

Still not bad. Now young one, practice and try to keep your arms tight and be square and get a good OF to IB 3 turn and then learn to tighten that IB edge. You can do it.



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Oops sorry. Could of swore I..........) well anyway it's public now.
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Old February 15th, 2016, 02:32 PM   #35
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Now I can see it... Thanks.

I noticed you did the waltz jump in both directions. Are you ambidextrous? Most people are right handed and they concentrate their jumps counter clockwise looking down on the jumper. You spin counter clockwise which is good. Maybe concentrate on jumping and spinning in one direction.

Now for the IB upright. You seem to hesitate to do the entry.
When I do get good rotation on my waltz I end up out of control way over on the outside edge; almost spinning; and sometime falling. Not bad, falls it's easy to slide to the ground from there. The landing feels good as I hit the edge, I like that swingy feeling, but the fall kinda sucks.

I'd prefer rotating clockwise, but the normal skating direction is counter. It's easier to find a hole in traffic to do an attempt that way. At this point my three turn is better that way as well. I don't hate going that way, just prefer the other.

The hesitation on the entry is me trying to deepen the outside edge before rocking over.

I'll see if I can tame the misbehaving arms. And deepen the spinny edge.
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Old February 19th, 2016, 11:55 AM   #36
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Default next tip

With a grain of salt, remember I really don't know what I'm doing. Hopefully, someone will correct if I give a tip that is just wrong.

So, I found that I had almost no rotation when entering the spin. I was relying on bringing my foot from way out beside to inside to create rotation. Brining the body in should increase rotational speed not create rotation. I do it right on the spin trainer. The spin trainer is frankly easier, more forgiving.

By changing the part of the rink I was spinning in(using a big rink there is an area that sometimes has bounce houses) I can get a proper entry on my preffered right foot.

So I entered with better body rotation. It's hard for me to get the free foot, arms, hips and shoulders right all at the same time. I got a lot closer yesterday, but the spin was still low revs? I went at it with much more gusto, had a bit of trouble keeping my head up to count the revs. Not more than 1.5 though, not sure why as I really threw into it harder than ever. Once I went so hard I had to jump to my free foot. Went around on my used to be free foot wnd then wiped out. It was one of those "bet that looked weird" falls and I laughed.

I'm still hesitating a bit off of the Mohawk. Ot to get over that.

I also realized on the trainer, that I would pul out if I didn't like the spin. Just do another one. Since I'm never satisfied I almost always pull out. So I concentrated on pulling the spin in and going even faster holding the spin as long as I could no matter what. That seemed to have some benifit on and off skate.
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Old February 21st, 2016, 10:12 PM   #37
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Default Tip that I shouldn't call a tip

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With a grain of salt, remember I really don't know what I'm doing. Hopefully, someone will correct if I give a tip that is just wrong.

So, I found that I had almost no rotation when entering the spin. I was relying on bringing my foot from way out beside to inside to create rotation. Brining the body in should increase rotational speed not create rotation. I do it right on the spin trainer. The spin trainer is frankly easier, more forgiving.

By changing the part of the rink I was spinning in(using a big rink there is an area that sometimes has bounce houses) I can get a proper entry on my preffered right foot.

So I entered with better body rotation. It's hard for me to get the free foot, arms, hips and shoulders right all at the same time. I got a lot closer yesterday, but the spin was still low revs? I went at it with much more gusto, had a bit of trouble keeping my head up to count the revs. Not more than 1.5 though, not sure why as I really threw into it harder than ever.
OK, this is more of a chronicle than a tip blog. Just how I am learning things without a coach. So don't mimic me. If I stumble on something profound have someone else point it out. Part of this contradicts an earlier post, so really it's just thoughts.

So this week continues my progress from last week. Seems that I was indeed not getting rotation from turning my upper body. But I also figured out why I had so low revs even after entering with a twist. I was twisting my body (even on the trainer) from the cranked start well beyond square. Then I'm out of balance thus feeling like I'm falling backwards. Solution? twist back square, but that checks the motion. Thus the low revs and falling feeling.

So I tried coming from a big twist to square and letting it fly at that point. I do now swing the free leg to the front just after squaring the upper body. Worked on the trainer. I also then put my hands together way out in front of me above the free foot, then pull the leg and arms in to get more rotational speed. I'm attempting to imitate http://youtu.be/zxPEezFM89k

This wotked great on the trainer. I upped my max revs from 5 to 9. And I didn't have to enter as hard. And it is easier to stay spinning.

So on skate: The angular motion is definitely increased. But I'm not used to it so I had to put a foot down. I was still rotating though, so I allowed it to become a two foot spin. I think this is a better problem to solve. In fact, I'll probably do some two foot spins with the same one foot entry to get the balance just right.

I'll get some more vid on Thursday. If there is any improvement, I'll post.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 03:54 PM   #38
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Default Tip of the week

Make sure you are acheiving a OF spin (or set) before rocking over to IB. For me (not sure if this is correct), that means I am very heavy on the Outer Back wheel (while I'm setting OF).

This seems to keep my upright spin, well.... upright. Now I need to work on keeping the IB edge and not dropping my performing foot.

I feels a bit bettr anyway to at least still be spinning and not dropping out. Power is also an issue for me. I think the root of that is hesitation. I'm bleeding the power purposely for fear of entring to fast.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 05:45 PM   #39
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Default Spin Trainers are so forgiving

http://youtu.be/Brm7OzG_RNs
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Old March 11th, 2016, 04:57 AM   #40
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Default Tip of the week

Think pidgeon toe.

So on the spin trainer, I've finally got very consistent. But it's very forgiving, you can spin with your foot in just about any positon. The best spin I can get is to throw your body form the side to straight forward, arms out to the sides. Then pull the arms and free leg straight in front of you not bent straight out like Frankenstein. Then pull the free leg and arms all the way in.

This does not quite translate to skate because it puts the pressure right in the middle of the performing foot where there is no wheel. Solution: Throw the upper body beyond square and think pidgeon toed with the performing foot. This puts it on the inner edge. IT WORKS!

So I am finnllally getting OF rotation off of the mohawk. No hesitation. A throw that looks like the spin trainner and finishing on the IB edge. I don't have that falling backward feeling anymore. I need a bit more control on the IB edge and a bit more power. But it is really comming along. I'll get vid next time I go to the skate park.
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