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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old December 2nd, 2016, 10:01 AM   #1
mamaderuby
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Default Inertia

Hi. I have seen that some of the new freestyle boots and plates on the market are " especially for skaters who jump using Inertia method". What exactly does this mean?
Thanks.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 05:33 PM   #2
Mort
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I would guess from a rotational standpoint, where one carves a hard edge to generate speed (inertia) into rotational speed. Only way I could think of it. Im no art skater though. Im sure they will have a better grasp on it.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 11:59 PM   #3
larryoracing
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Smile My two cents. Not worth much...lol!

I have no idea, but I would like to guess…lol! Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about can answer this question exactly…lol!

If you have ever looked at the modern day jumper….they don’t use an edge at all. Many seem to be taken off from a “Flat Edge…lol”. They also seem to be traveling at a “snails pace…ie..they are moving quite slowly, not like the old days where skaters carried a lot of speed”.

These modern day skaters seem to skate “Exactly/precisely..almost from a stand point or stand still, jumping straight up and of course landing straight down, with no edge at all! They land on a “flat edge”!

From my physics background “Inertia” is the innate ability to create motion from something inside you. Somehow the skater can create momentum or spinning motion from literally nothing and no edge at all. That’s what the new skater/jumper is doing. Almost from a stand still he or she is able to jump straight up and spin like a top from literally no edge at all.

Anybody that has skated on a freestyle plate will know everything has been done on the truck action to not turn and not edge. As for example the Roll Line dance plate, loves to create an edge…ie…deep penetrating lobes that circle not the earth, but the skating surface.

Contrary the Roll Line energy/freestyle plates does not want to edge or create an edge. It’ more like a dragster that prefers to go in a straight line, but when prompted, it will lock onto a pivot/edge while doing a spin, which is way different than the edges creating when doing deep lobes in a dance.

If anybody has read the ads on the Roll-line Evo , 1200 dollar freestyle plates, they are designed with two different trucks. The rear to give stability on landings, which means they don’t want to edge or hook the landing, but to save the landing/no edges or “lobe” movement on landings, skating backwards.

And the front trucks that are designed with a different geometry to “pivot” a spin/not create a edge like in a dance edge or lobe. Spinning is different than dance …lol! So the truck action is different...to initiate a pivot spin, which is not an edge or a barrier lobe so to speak, like in dance.

So, my guess is the new plates are designed for flat edges, that allow the skater to jump straight up and create the inertia to do a quadruple jump from a “no edge” take off/ flat edge…lol at all! You don't want to jump off a flat edge and all of a sudden feel the skate hook or create a lobe. You want the skate to stay planted rolling in a straight line/flat.

The only other thing you want in a flat edge/freestyle plate is the ability to pivot a heel camel spin or to spin pivoting on the rear trucks or to intiate a spin on the front trucks..like on a OB spin or a IB spin which the spin is started/intiated from the front truck geometry, hence why roll line has changed the geometry in the front trucks on their most expensive freestyle plates and used a completely different geometry for the rear trucks to aid in no edge straight line edge landings.

My two cents.

Larry O
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Old December 4th, 2016, 02:27 PM   #4
Derrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
I have no idea, but I would like to guess…lol! Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about can answer this question exactly…lol!

If you have ever looked at the modern day jumper….they don’t use an edge at all. Many seem to be taken off from a “Flat Edge…lol”. They also seem to be traveling at a “snails pace…ie..they are moving quite slowly, not like the old days where skaters carried a lot of speed”.

These modern day skaters seem to skate “Exactly/precisely..almost from a stand point or stand still, jumping straight up and of course landing straight down, with no edge at all! They land on a “flat edge”!

From my physics background “Inertia” is the innate ability to create motion from something inside you. Somehow the skater can create momentum or spinning motion from literally nothing and no edge at all. That’s what the new skater/jumper is doing. Almost from a stand still he or she is able to jump straight up and spin like a top from literally no edge at all.

My two cents.

Larry O
I don't know..... To quote "The Tick", "Must defy laws of physics!".
Me thinks the only inertia in the body is the propensity of water to get moving easier than the soild stuff. So the water is actually going round at the time of take-off. That would give my belly a big advantage. But I think the effect is negligiable. Unless, I'm missing somethig (which is usually probable).

But the rest, I totally agree. When I saw Trace Hansen do his double mapes thursday. It was done fast, on an edge, and landed beautifully on an edge. But when I see the art session practice. Flat edges, the spin is super high in rpm, and flat landing. Not as beautiful, but exactly as you do it without a skates on. The one I saw on the internet were also flat.

Back to the inertia, so when you do a base 360 two footer. Your suposed to come up on flats. Do one rotation only in the air. Then land flat. So where does the inertia come from, once your in the air you can't take advantage of static friction.

So I did a few (off skate). At least for me, I find, I cheat. To come around (thinking as if I am skating backward) ccw. I come off my left foot a tiny bit before my right. So the right is pushed around the left. The left is my pivot. Then I land flat (hopefully). It looks like a base jump unless you inspect it closely.

I'm going to go back and look at Joe Enthors video. He seemed to come up and down really flat with no cheat on his 360.
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Old December 5th, 2016, 05:17 AM   #5
larryoracing
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Smile two more cents...not worth much more...none the less

I asked a couple of world class skaters today if they knew what “inertia jumping” was?

1) One replied what is inertia?

a : a property of matter by which it remains at rest or in uniform motion in the same straight line unless acted upon by some external force.

1a)She then replied it must mean the boots and plates are stiff.

2) The second person I asked graduated in physics and she said” it must be a fancy name for jumping”.

3) So I have a tendency to believe a roll line energy plates wants to go in a straight line and not be effected by the antics of jumping. And when landing to continue in that “straight line”.

3a) The stiff boots would aid in making sure you are not leaning and causing the jump to wobble at take off. A lean in effect makes the jump want to curve and edge. If you want to jump straight up you don’t want to lean.

Quote:
4) Back to the inertia, so when you do a base 360 two footer. Your suposed to come up on flats. Do one rotation only in the air. Then land flat. So where does the inertia come from, once your in the air you can't take advantage of static friction.
They say you are converting kinetic energy, in a straight line to potential energy, energy for jumping up and down/potential energy.

The point is you want “flat” skates or skate that don’t lean and commit to a premature curvature unless wanted like going into a spin, which is a completely different take off than a jump.
Quote:
5) So, I did a few (off skate). At least for me, I find, I cheat. To come around (thinking as if I am skating backward) ccw. I come off my left foot a tiny bit before my right. So the right is pushed around the left. The left is my pivot. Then I land flat (hopefully). It looks like a base jump unless you inspect it closely.
I think the base jump is similar to the mapes except you use the right foot as a “pole vault” to get you into the air. Kinetic straight line energy into up and down/potential energy.

As far as the rotation goes, I’m not sure but your arms swinging in a circle help with the rotation, which is the square of the velocity and inversely portional to the radius. Swinging the arm hard to get more rotation and bring your arms in to make the rotation go faster.

two more cents...lol!

Larry O and happy jumping. Glad to see you have some jumpers to watch. That is the spirit!
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Old December 5th, 2016, 11:40 AM   #6
Derrick
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Default Started 360 going bwckwards at the rink

Once you get over that it shouldn't be easier than going forward, it is indeed easier landing backwards. So me thinks your right you put a little arm swing in it. You start with one arm in front and bring it in tight. Then check spread armed. The challenge is to swing arms and not twist at the hips. And it is not a lot of arm swing either. When I first tried 360s this summer I put way too much wind up in it.
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Old December 6th, 2016, 07:55 AM   #7
larryoracing
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Default In the interest of Inertia Jumping...lol!

You are right about the 360 in just about everything you said, but remember on your snyder skates a small tendency to lean creates a small edge on landing.

1) With a pair of modern day skates these small tendancies will be voided out. The skate will like to skate flat and land flat which is really good for a 360 or Inertia jumping.

2) If you skated on a modern day skate like a dance plate you would never want to jump on them because they want to lean and skate big barrier lobes. It is easy to initiate an edge, which you don't want in jumping.

Although everybody wants to add rotation to jumps the key is jumping straight up. From there everything becomes easy. If you tend to want to rotate only disaster will happen with hurt bones and bruises.


Larry O
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Old December 8th, 2016, 01:11 AM   #8
Derrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
You are right about the 360 in just about everything you said, but remember on your snyder skates a small tendency to lean creates a small edge on landing.

1) With a pair of modern day skates these small tendancies will be voided out. The skate will like to skate flat and land flat which is really good for a 360 or Inertia jumping.

2) If you skated on a modern day skate like a dance plate you would never want to jump on them because they want to lean and skate big barrier lobes. It is easy to initiate an edge, which you don't want in jumping.

Although everybody wants to add rotation to jumps the key is jumping straight up. From there everything becomes easy. If you tend to want to rotate only disaster will happen with hurt bones and bruises.


Larry O
I looked at some videos online and find that you are right. The best present to the lobe quickly but land flat.

Here's the videos and comment.

This video should be banned it has too many hits and comes up as if it had any correct information whatsoever:
https://youtu.be/oxIx_g7umVY

I think thesis the best training video:
https://youtu.be/OhB5aL6hU4g

Lands too bent over (geez! I learn a little and I turn into a jerk. Can I do a double better or even at all (or even close)? noooooo... and she presents nicely so as not to notice the landing unless you put it on youtube and have a pause key):

Anyway here's the vid: https://youtu.be/tXuepJ-Ht44
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Old December 8th, 2016, 03:03 AM   #9
larryoracing
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Smile Thanks for the reply Derrick. It made me think about landing jumps.

Inertia Jumping:

“Bodies at rest seem to stay at rest. Bodies in motion tend to move in that motion in a straight line”

Nothing is acting on the body to change it's direction.

Most modern day skaters tend to jump straight up. How else can you do a double, triple or quadruple?

To me the only thing preventing rotation is time. The more time you have the more rotations you can do , so jump straight up as far as you can.

I can't do an axel or a double mapes, but I can do a waltz jump and a single mapes.

What’t the difference?

When you do a waltz jump you are looking for the landing all the time.

When I do a single mapes jump I am looking for the landing all the time.

When I do an axel the landing is an after thought hence I land on my left leg.

And when I do a double mapes I’m not looking for the landing at take off. I’m thinking about rotation. So I never get to where I want to land and bail out at 1.5 revolutions because I'm not in the position to land a double mapes.

So, on an axel or double mapes always think about the landing, or you will never get there. Height is commensurate with rotation. The more rotations you have the higher you will have to jump, but you have to think about the landing or you will never get there. At the moment of take off the body is preparing for the landing.

Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old December 8th, 2016, 11:41 AM   #10
Derrick
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Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
Height is commensurate with rotation.
Sincerely,

Larry O
And weight is anti-commensurate with heght.

Or, in common terms: I'm too fat to do an axel.
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