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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old January 28th, 2018, 08:42 AM   #1
netplaceus
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Default Roll Line Dance Plate on a size 11 Riedell 297 boot - Can it be done?

Here the deal. I have Riedell 297 boot would like the Roll Line Dance Plate, but for some reason the chart says I need a 190 plate for the Riedell size 11 boot.

All the other boot manufacturers on the same size chart say a 180 is needed.
(it's the standard ATLAS Skates US chart)

So I am confused, it seems like the correct Axel Spread would not be different from boot to boot, right?

This is an issue to me because I have a Riedell 297 boot size 11, and according to the chart I would need a 190 and they don't make a 190 for the Roll Line Dance Plate (180 max). So I would have to buy a different boot or plate.

I mean it is a shorter plate, seems like there would be more room for adjustment right?

I'm guessing it is because the bolts don't line up somehow or the heal is larger or smaller or something. What do you guys think?
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Old January 28th, 2018, 03:20 PM   #2
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As this is the open forum not the figures forum, are you mounting for dance and figures or general skating?
If for competition, there is a guideline, as you know from the atlas chart, it's a guideline.
Sort of like the pirates creed, just a guideline

But if you're mounting for free skating and session skating, it's your choice, shorter plates turn in a smaller radius than longer plates.

If that plate is Roll-lines longest plate and it's a dance plate, I bet lots of European dance competitors use the longest plate available and if their boot is larger place the front axle where they prefer and let the rear axle fall where it may.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 01:38 AM   #3
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Free skating and session skating. The plate is supposed be great for bobbing and weaving, spinning and OK for almost everything else except jumping.

Which just about describes crowded adult night rink sessions, no room to really jump if you wanted to.

"Place the front axle where they prefer and let the rear axle fall where it may."

Thanks, that's what I thought the case would likely be.

Still, I wonder just what is different about the Riedell boots that made them an exception on the chart? If I knew why, I think I would feel more comfortable making the investment and or that it was not a bad idea.

I am afraid if I order the plate, lay it on the boot, I will understand why it was an exception So I'm hoping somebody already knows and or put one on a Riedell boot with experience.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 03:18 AM   #4
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Smile My two cents for whatever it's worth.

I have never mounted a Reidell Boot on a Roll Line plate, but a couple of girls have.

A 297 boot on Roll Line Dance Plate and Riedell 336 boot on a Roll Line Dance plate. Oh yeah and another boy just bought a 297 boot and mounted it on a Roll Line Energy Plate and yet another person who I think mounted a Riedell boot on Energy Roll Line plate.

My question is why do people buy plates that they should not be buying. A Roll Line Dance Plate was designed to cut deep edges doing Artistic Dance. competition

If you are not doing this there is no reason to buy this plate. I have recommended people not to buy the Dance Roll Line plate and they are really happy with the decision.


Next the two girls who bought Roll Line Dance Plates measured the Axel distance of the plates they are skating on now. Then they bought new Roll Line Dance plates with that exact same axel distance dimension. The axel distance you are skating on determines the plate you buy and then buy the Boot and just mount it on it.


One person went against this rule and bought the plate axel dimension recommended by Riedell. Big mistake had to buy a new set Roll Line energy plates with the exact axel distance he was skating on now. Stick with the axel distance you are skating now unless you feel you need a longer plate or shorter!

Have a great day! And Good luck. For the money you will pay for these plates, boots, etc, you better know what you are doing or have tons of cash to buy the right equipment.

Sincerely,

Larry O.


I run a Roll Line Dance plate on a Berry Boot. Very Trick set up. It's a short mount and similar to a Custom Riedell Boot mounted on a short Synder Imperial skate, but a Standard Reidell Boot I'm running a Longer Synder plate. The Shorter plate, boot is much more Reactive. I only use these skates for Artistic Dance Competition.

I don't use the standard 275 Donald Jackson boot on the size 9 Synder Imperial Plate. Not reactive enough for Weave Dance Competion. Very Few People need this plate. It's design to cut some deep edges on Advanced Artistic Dances. Very few people do this type of completion. Stick with the Energy Plate on your exiting Reidell boot, but get a new plate with the exact axel length dimension you are now running.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 04:09 AM   #5
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First, The charts are really just a starting point. However, The Roll Line chart is fairly accurate. It is more important to determine the position of the ball of the foot and your heel center. Larger plates allow more room for error. Shorter plates must be mounted exactly. The rear wheel should be under the heel center. I disagree that you should focus on the front axle and let the rear fall where it may. You "feel" the front position more but the rear position limits movement or knocks you on your butt if not correct.

I'm using a 170 on a 9.5 boot for both my art skates - dance and freestyle. This is below the recommended length.

My Dance/336 plate is mounted fairly far back. It forces posture, but is brutal when leaning forward. I'm getting used to it though. I just built a Energy/Edea freestyle skate because the Dance/336 is limited to Dance and session skating. No stability to do a jump. I moved the plate forward .090" to get up on the rear wheels easier. Maybe I moved it too much. Time will tell.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 04:13 AM   #6
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My method for determining position of ball and heel:

Put a tiny bit of oil on a pin or fine pencil point. Touch it to the ball of the foot and the heel center. Place your foot on a piece of paper and trace your foot. Do this on 3-4 sheets to make sure you find the correct points. Draw center line and perpendicular lines to the grease points. Measure the distance along the center line. This measurement is the shortest plate you can use.

Now the real challenge starts. You must translate these two points to the bottom of the skate boot and line up the axles. And then hope all your measurements were correct.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 06:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
First, The charts are really just a starting point. However, The Roll Line chart is fairly accurate. It is more important to determine the position of the ball of the foot and your heel center. Larger plates allow more room for error. Shorter plates must be mounted exactly. The rear wheel should be under the heel center. I disagree that you should focus on the front axle and let the rear fall where it may. You "feel" the front position more but the rear position limits movement or knocks you on your butt if not correct.

I'm using a 170 on a 9.5 boot for both my art skates - dance and freestyle. This is below the recommended length.

My Dance/336 plate is mounted fairly far back. It forces posture, but is brutal when leaning forward. I'm getting used to it though. I just built a Energy/Edea freestyle skate because the Dance/336 is limited to Dance and session skating. No stability to do a jump. I moved the plate forward .090" to get up on the rear wheels easier. Maybe I moved it too much. Time will tell.

You missed something Ursle said.

Quote:
If that plate is Roll-lines longest plate and it's a dance plate, I bet lots of European dance competitors use the longest plate available and if their boot is larger place the front axle where they prefer and let the rear axle fall where it may.
Meaning since there was not a plate of their actual desired length, they just buy the largest, place it where they want in the front, where it matters most, and they deal with the rear being a bit shorter tham optimal for their desired setup.

I don't think there are many out there wishing to buy a pate over the max size that roll*line makes though. Thats a damn big foot , ya know, speaking of art mounts that is.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 07:45 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Sure. I skate a 180 on a size 13. 180 on an 11 is a walk in the park.

Of course, I don't know what kind of skating you intend to do. That changes the answer.

"The chart" as it relates to the high end art plates like Snyder, Atlas, Roll Line, etc, is intended as a guide on sizing for traditional art disciplines. If that's what you're doing, chances are that's the neighborhood you should be in. Your coach should be able to steer you.

If you're skating for fun, all bets are off. Plate sizing and position is a very individual thing. I skate short forward, arguably shorter than most. It works for me and I like it. 180mm is actually the upper limit. Anything longer and the skate feels like a cinder block.

But to your original question, no, you likely should not be changing sizes between plate types without some compelling reason to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
First, The charts are really just a starting point. However, The Roll Line chart is fairly accurate. It is more important to determine the position of the ball of the foot and your heel center. Larger plates allow more room for error. Shorter plates must be mounted exactly. The rear wheel should be under the heel center. I disagree that you should focus on the front axle and let the rear fall where it may. You "feel" the front position more but the rear position limits movement or knocks you on your butt if not correct.

I'm using a 170 on a 9.5 boot for both my art skates - dance and freestyle. This is below the recommended length.

My Dance/336 plate is mounted fairly far back. It forces posture, but is brutal when leaning forward. I'm getting used to it though. I just built a Energy/Edea freestyle skate because the Dance/336 is limited to Dance and session skating. No stability to do a jump. I moved the plate forward .090" to get up on the rear wheels easier. Maybe I moved it too much. Time will tell.
Thanks for the feedback, very useful information.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 03:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
First, The charts are really just a starting point. However, The Roll Line chart is fairly accurate. It is more important to determine the position of the ball of the foot and your heel center. Larger plates allow more room for error. Shorter plates must be mounted exactly. The rear wheel should be under the heel center. I disagree that you should focus on the front axle and let the rear fall where it may. You "feel" the front position more but the rear position limits movement or knocks you on your butt if not correct.

I'm using a 170 on a 9.5 boot for both my art skates - dance and freestyle. This is below the recommended length.

My Dance/336 plate is mounted fairly far back. It forces posture, but is brutal when leaning forward. I'm getting used to it though. I just built a Energy/Edea freestyle skate because the Dance/336 is limited to Dance and session skating. No stability to do a jump. I moved the plate forward .090" to get up on the rear wheels easier. Maybe I moved it too much. Time will tell.
If you are jumping and spinning in the air, it would be advantageous to have the wheels as far back and as far forward as possible, well, the front wheels have a sweet spot for take-offs.
But for free skating it's my experience that moving the rear axle to the outside ankle bone is the balance point, in front of the outside ankle bone and it's easy to go over backwards, just behind the outer ankle bone there's no problem concerning going over backwards, makes measuring axle simple, Ah, if you know your front axle point, I like the spot between my big and index toes, well in front of the front ball of the foot but not out at the big toe knuckle, where speed skaters place it, so axle distance is easy.
As an outdoor skater I jump and do 180's over curbs or to turn around to stop.
Shorter axle spacing smaller turns.
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Old January 29th, 2018, 10:51 PM   #10
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"I have recommended people not to buy the Dance Roll Line plate and they are really happy with the decision."

Oh for Pete's sakes, that is just silly! It's like saying I recommended people not try or buy the XX pizza or YY beer and that they were all happy with their decision.

It not that black & white in reality. It is much like cushions, some like them really soft and some hard for the same kind of skating. Then there are those that never try a different cushion or worse just follow the stupid weight charts. Over time those who never experiment will never know what works best for them.

My hats off to those who understand there are few hard rules when it comes to plates, cushions and wheels. Anyway you look at it the SKATER is
a HUGE unmeasurable factor at what he or she can do with their hardware.

" A Roll Line Dance Plate was designed to cut deep edges doing Artistic Dance."

True, but if you do your homework you will see people are using it for Figure & Rhythm too. There is also interest in Freestyle, Jam, Speed, Derby & Hockey!


" My question is why do people buy plates that they should not be buying"

Sorry, this is just a little arrogant, don't you think?
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Old January 30th, 2018, 01:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netplaceus View Post
"I have recommended people not to buy the Dance Roll Line plate and they are really happy with the decision."

Oh for Pete's sakes, that is just silly! It's like saying I recommended people not try or buy the XX pizza or YY beer and that they were all happy with their decision.

It not that black & white in reality. It is much like cushions, some like them really soft and some hard for the same kind of skating. Then there are those that never try a different cushion or worse just follow the stupid weight charts. Over time those who never experiment will never know what works best for them.

My hats off to those who understand there are few hard rules when it comes to plates, cushions and wheels. Anyway you look at it the SKATER is
a HUGE unmeasurable factor at what he or she can do with their hardware.

" A Roll Line Dance Plate was designed to cut deep edges doing Artistic Dance."

True, but if you do your homework you will see people are using it for Figure & Rhythm too. There is also interest in Freestyle, Jam, Speed, Derby & Hockey!


" My question is why do people buy plates that they should not be buying"

Sorry, this is just a little arrogant, don't you think?
I would not say that Larry O is arrogant, he has a LOT of skate building experience. It is up to the person to weigh the advice and take it or not. I have a friend in Houston that had a setup built by Doc Skate, she loves the way they work and recently asked about upgrading parts on the skates,but not the skates themselves. She has had them for 5 or 6 years. If you get info from him it is usually very reliable.
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