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Roller Dance and Session Skating Forum Discussions about roller dancing, jamskating, rexing, rink session skating, dance circle skating, and similar types of recreational indoor and outdoor skate dancing .

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Old November 26th, 2014, 08:59 PM   #1
Zafira
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Default Session wheel suggestions?

Hi All,
I could use some help with some ideas for quad session wheels.
I use Bones Elite 101A in the summer and on figures and dance.
In the winter they feel a bit too slippery for my taste during regular sessions.
I have a Bones Richard Humphrey's 98A that I used last winter, but compared to the Elites they feel like skating in molasses.
Does anyone know of a wheel that might fall between the two for grip?
Thanks for any input!
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Old November 27th, 2014, 02:08 AM   #2
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I don't have art skates or wheels, however if your looking for "roll" you'll want to consider a wheel with a machined hub. Bearing alignments are important for good roll. A properly aligned plastic hub with soft urethane will out roll a harder wheel if its bearing bores have alignment issues.

Hard wheels are often poured without an actual core. Urethane doesn't always keep the alignment it had when casted into a wheel. The Humphreys when I searched do not have a core insert, the elites do. That's probably the issue your having.

Sure Grip has a 98A Green hub Zombie, the"MID" is 62mm tall 38mm wide while its not a "art" wheel it comes in a full width aluminum core, and is very rigid. If you like spacers their cores have always measured at .300 thousandths wide. I own a set of the ones I'm describing, great wheel and a surprisingly grippy for its hardness.

Any way you go, make sure its got a core in it not just a urethane wheel.
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Old November 27th, 2014, 07:56 AM   #3
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Right. Not only the shore A hardness, also the core (thickness of PU) or the type of PU used by the manufacturer determine the feeling of the wheel on a specific floor.

I would recommend Roll Line Panther, only defined only 95A, but the hardness scale of Roll Line is comparable lower than the US manufacturer. So 95A is rather 97A/98A from other manufacturers. Actually 101A is not possible, because the shore durometer A scale ends at 100A, that means no intrusion of the standard hardened steel rod 1.1 mm - 1.4 mm diameter, with a truncated 35 cone, 0.79 mm diameter.
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Old November 27th, 2014, 11:37 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgerman View Post
Right. Not only the shore A hardness, also the core (thickness of PU) or the type of PU used by the manufacturer determine the feeling of the wheel on a specific floor.

I would recommend Roll Line Panther, only defined only 95A, but the hardness scale of Roll Line is comparable lower than the US manufacturer. So 95A is rather 97A/98A from other manufacturers. Actually 101A is not possible, because the shore durometer A scale ends at 100A, that means no intrusion of the standard hardened steel rod 1.1 mm - 1.4 mm diameter, with a truncated 35 cone, 0.79 mm diameter.
Another thing with roll line is their hubs have excellent build quality, and urethane as well. With them you do get what you pay for.

I also hate that 100+A rating business that companies seem to use. The first time I remember it was looking at a packages of inline aggressive skate wheels for the anti rocker spot for grinds/slides. They should be rating it on the R scale but I think that humans need that "easy answer" and seeing a lower number for a harder wheel makes people confused. They don't seem to want to bother learning that there are different scales of hardness's out there.
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Old November 27th, 2014, 05:35 PM   #5
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Mort & Jbergman,
Thanks for the recommendations. Mort, did not know that about the hubs, I'll look into some wheels with hubs.
Jbergman, I've had my eye on some Rollines for awhile, but there are so many I didn't know what to get, thanks!

I'm also wonering if it could also have so ething to do with my plate.
I have an Atlas freestyle/dance plate on the firgure skates and they seem to hold an edge a lot better than my session skates with the Suregrip Classic plate.

Hmmmm... new plates and wheels for Christmas?
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Old November 28th, 2014, 02:31 AM   #6
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Good wheels make a huge difference over poor ones. Axles being straight and the hangers being cut perpendicular to the axle(faced as we tend to refer them) also helps a good deal, mainly in the turns, the pressure is more evenly distributed onto the inner races, and reduces drag. And obviously how straight /true the plate itself is.

How far can your skates roll before they start to arc off by themselves? Its a good view of how your skate rolls by itself at a neutral position. If it pulls to one side it shows drag. In some way. Be it worn cushions that allow a truck to tilt slightly, bent axles, one wheel with a bad core etc.
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Old November 28th, 2014, 03:01 AM   #7
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There are many things that are responsible for wheels slipping on the skate floor such as the weight of the individual, style of skating, condition of the floor, atmospheric conditions, how your skate suspension is configured and adjusted...and the list goes on and on.

The best thing to do is to try different wheels, preferably for free, until you find wheels that work for you. This may not be much help to you now but as you begin to try the wheels that others are suggesting...by people not asking you questions about where you skate, what kind of floor do you skate on, how often is that floor mopped and/or swept, when was the last time that floor was coated, what coating was put on that floor and in what quantity, how far is that skating rink floor above sea level, what season do you have the most slippage, is it warm in the rink, cold in the rink, do you have double action or single action trucks, who makes the plates, how many turns are the trucks adjusted...ad infinitum...you will begin to see how something that works for someone else doesn't really work for you in the same way. So trying different wheels is the best way to go.
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Old November 28th, 2014, 04:23 AM   #8
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Default Do Some SLF R&D,

Hi Zafira,

Have not read everyones replies, Sorry Guys, yet let me give a little of what I know from SLF and personally from real live skaters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zafira View Post
Hi All,
I could use some help with some ideas for quad session wheels.
I use Bones Elite 101A in the summer and on figures and dance.
In the winter they feel a bit too slippery for my taste during regular sessions.
I have a Bones Richard Humphrey's 98A that I used last winter, but compared to the Elites they feel like skating in molasses.
Does anyone know of a wheel that might fall between the two for grip?
Thanks for any input!
101A 103A are great wheels for Artistic Skate set ups. For some the only problem is flatting spotting them on regular junk around skating. Skating them copying others who are on softer wheels or flat bottom plates.

I can not for the life of me remember the wheel that some use to get almost a 101/103 slip yet not the flat spotting. I got the picture in my head yet it won't come out. It is in the Riedell catalog. SO Since I can not, we did have a tread about this recently, year or so: Flatspotting, bones 101A, MA/NY SkatingDave, should all be search terms under Advanced Search that should get you to the Art Skate Guy who fixed his flat spotting and used a different wheel that worked well.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old November 28th, 2014, 07:49 AM   #9
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@Edward

Yea, I was intentionally ignoring floor conditions as it didn't matter much for the question. Most of the time accurate descriptions of a rinks average floor conditions don't get conveyed well. The OP had a question of grip vs roll and 2 wheels they were comparing fortunately were from the same company. The only issue there really was to resolve was... Why were those wheels THAT much slower feeling. So it more or less became a comparison of those 2 wheels design.



@ OP (Original poster)

Edward is right that floor conditions greatly matter. My home rink can go from incredibly sticky to a dry dusty cornering nightmare, and even in some cases during the winter, a sweating mess as the floor is cold and the air is hot. . I'd hope your questions are based from multiple sessions on the same floor using both wheels with some knowledge as to what Edward was referencing. My hate for floor conditions begins when I see carpet at a rink. Carpet sucks..

As he sad, try different wheels if at all possible. It does help raise your overall awareness on what may work for you. BUT you need to know what you put on your skates. Pinching the inner races of the bearings when installed into a wheel will show you the hubs alignment with a couple spins, and also how balanced the wheel is. If the bearings feel like they are moving as the wheel spins its a hub that is poor quality or a bearing isn't seated all the way.
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Old November 28th, 2014, 10:31 PM   #10
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Another vote for Roll-Line panther. I've had both generations of them. Gen 2 is the one with the new hub design, marked Phanter.

You just have to try them to appreciate what grip, control and roll is all about.
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Old November 30th, 2014, 03:37 AM   #11
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I used to have Bones 101A and then got Roll Line plates so I switched to Roll Line Grease 95A. Then our rink installed a brand new hardwood floor over a year ago and when winter came around for the first time with the wood floor, our Minnesota dry cold winter air made the floor pretty slick. The rink sold many sets of Radars to people who wanted softer wheels for the slick floor. I bought Roll Line Formulas. They are 88A. They didn't feel sluggish to me, in fact, I kept them on through the summer months. Now we are heading into winter and some people are saying the floor is slick, but the Formulas are working great for me!
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Old November 30th, 2014, 03:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zafira View Post
Hmmmm... new plates and wheels for Christmas?
Get Roll Line Variant M plates. Two others at our rink also have them, and they are really good girl skaters. I've had mine for about 6 years now and LOVE LOVE LOVE them!
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Old December 2nd, 2014, 04:21 PM   #13
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Hi all,
Thanks for all the input.

The floor is wood, coated in the spring after the May skate jam and tight all summer. Then as the weather cools down, and the coating gets worn, and the floor gets dusty, it gets slick. Wheels slide.

Mort,
Thanks specifically for all the input on the axles & plates. Plates are old, but almost like new as I skated on them 5-6 times in 1992, then mostly hung up my skates until 2013. I did get new cushions in them earlier this year.

After reading about the Panthers, the Foxes, the Grease line and the Rapidos, I ended up going with a Roll Line Olympic. It's a 62mm which is what my Bones wheels are and I didn't want to get used to a shorter wheel, then have to go to a taller wheel for figures and dance. It's also a 93A, so just a little tighter than the Panthers, but not as tight as Tuesday Girl's Forumulas.
It was part of the Grease line but just a little bit tighter than the 95A.

I really don't have anyone to trade wheels with, at least not any wheels I want to try.
The friends I have that would trade with me are on vanathane, roller derby wheels that are so old we don't know what they are, Groove & Glide Backspins, All American Plus or Bones Elite 101 or 103s.

Next is plates. I really do like my Atlas Freestyle, but will do some more reading on the Roll Line plates.
I can see where this is eventually going... session skates, figure skates and dance skates. I'm going to need a second job to support my skating habit!

So new wheels arriving sometime this week.
I'll report back once I've skated in them.

Thanks all !!!
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Old December 3rd, 2014, 04:58 AM   #14
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Default Thanks for the Update, Keep them coming

Hi Again,

Anyway keep updating us. It is fun to watch a skater grow.

Well your note gave most yet not all the wheels I know that can replace the 101 and 103A. Which is good

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zafira View Post
Hi all, o - o The floor is wood, coated in the spring after the May skate jam and tight all summer. Then as the weather cools down, and the coating gets worn, and the floor gets dusty, it gets slick. Wheels slide. o - o
Understand, yet you have skaters on harder wheels, per your list that still skate. Are you cleaning your wheels regularly even during session, as needed? It also could be an experience issue..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zafira View Post
Hi all, o - o After reading about the Panthers, the Foxes, the Grease line and the Rapidos, I ended up going with a Roll Line Olympic. It's a 62mm which is what my Bones wheels are and I didn't want to get used to a shorter wheel, then have to go to a taller wheel for figures and dance. It's also a 93A, so just a little tighter than the Panthers, but not as tight as Tuesday Girl's Forumulas.!
T's OK, Tuesday skates on a now a great big floor yet with difficult conditions considering that building and temperature control. The floor matters a lot, and you have to adjust to the floor. In my case I am lucky

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zafira View Post
Hi all, o - o I can see where this is eventually going... session skates, figure skates and dance skates. I'm going to need a second job to support my skating habit! o - o
Could be and Could not be. Many skaters just change their wheels depending on the floor and skate both art and junk around session with the same boots and plates. Now you might like to get a pair of flat bottoms to do some stuff, that is easier on almost flat heel skates yet it depends on what you want to do.

Update US

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old December 13th, 2014, 04:19 PM   #15
Zafira
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Thumbs up

And I think we have a WINNER!!!!
Finally received the Roll Line Olympics, but couldn't get the bearings installed myself. Took them to the rink Thursday evening and even the man in the skate room with years of experience had a difficult time inserting the bearings, but... they are in now. Probably never to be removed. Not quite sure what I'll do about cleaning them but that issue will wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MANY_SkatingDave View Post
Understand, yet you have skaters on harder wheels, per your list that still skate. Are you cleaning your wheels regularly even during session, as needed? It also could be an experience issue..
Yes, I would clean those Bones 101As during session and within a minute or two be sliding around again. It's an age issue, not an experience issue.
All my skate friends on harder wheels are male and anywhere from 20 to 30 years younger than me. They also didn't quit skating for 20 years. (My one big regret in my life is that I stopped).
Anyway back in my 20s & early 30s I must have been stronger/better than I am now because in my little bag of tricks I have a very beat-up set of Silver Cup Fomac wheels that I used to skate on.

So the Roll Line Olympics... the rink I used them at Thursday is wood, but the floor hasn't been recoated in years - bare spots where the hockey net is put out at as well as at the center of all the 8s. And I don't think they ever dust mop the floor, it's always filthy. (This is not the floor I was referring to in my first post)
The wheels roll well, just about as fast as my Bones Elite 101As, a very imperceptible difference. But it doesn't feel like I'm skating in molasses like the Richard Humphreys Bones 98As.
And they slide just a bit IF I intentionally slide my leg to the side. Cornering they don't slide, they hold the turn.
One of the most obvious issues I notice is that I'm not getting a shin splint or the pain in my hip that I typically got using the 101As. I may be controlling my body in the turn in some funky way because I was sliding on the 101As and it exacerbated the bursitis in my left hip or what. The Roll Lines feel better!!!! They also don't pick up the dirt that the 101As did. This particular rink, even with cleaning the wheels mid-way the session would go home filthy and I'd have to clean them.

So next week when I get back to the other wood floor I skate on, the one that gets coated in late May after the skate jam, I'll report back.
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Old December 13th, 2014, 07:05 PM   #16
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Great, that it is working for you. I preferr smaller diameter wheels, freestyle 57mm, so the Roll Line FOX 92A are my wheels, which I use, if the floor is difficult.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #17
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Great, that it is working for you. I preferr smaller diameter wheels, freestyle 57mm, so the Roll Line FOX 92A are my wheels, which I use, if the floor is difficult.
Speaking of smaller diameter wheels, have you tried the Roll Line Fox Lite? Looks like it's a 55mm version of the same freestyle wheel.
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Old December 29th, 2014, 10:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Speaking of smaller diameter wheels, have you tried the Roll Line Fox Lite? Looks like it's a 55mm version of the same freestyle wheel.
I have the Panther light. The difference in diameter and weight is not so large, that you can really feel a significant difference. Really different are the Adonis wheels with 50mm diameter.

http://www.rolladonis.com/index.php/...n/98a-hardness

I like them much, especially the black 98A wheels, which provide a very agile, skating.
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Old January 1st, 2015, 01:19 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgerman View Post
I have the Panther light. The difference in diameter and weight is not so large, that you can really feel a significant difference. Really different are the Adonis wheels with 50mm diameter.

I like them much, especially the black 98A wheels, which provide a very agile, skating.
Thanks. The Panther sounds good at 95a, but that's probably the hardest I would use. I've seen the Adonis, but never tried. I like the idea of agility for for dance footwork, but also like to keep up with the pack. Don't the Adonis slow you down?
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Old January 11th, 2015, 02:13 AM   #20
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Now that I've had a chance to skate the Roll Line Olympic at my regular rink (the rink I originally wanted something for because of sliding) I wanted to report back.
So they are fabulous wheels, but this wood rink in the winter just has a really slick floor. I've skated them there twice and they're better than the Bones 101, but I swear I could use the Roll Line Formula that Tuesday girl skates, I'm still sliding more than I want. Maybe once I get new boots purchased I'll get some next winter. I definitely love the Roll Line wheels over the Bones now that I've tried a pair.
A couple weeks ago (and it was cold) I went to a Christmas skate party at a rink with a non-wood floor. I guess this is sport court? Kind of a plasticy coating over tile sort of.
The wheels did great there too! Good grip, but not sluggish.

I'm happy with them, now for a new boot.
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