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Beginning Skaters Forum This is the place for beginning skaters to ask questions and share their stories. We would love to hear about your experiences learning to skate. No question is too dumb!

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Old July 4th, 2011, 07:55 AM   #1
Metaphor
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Default Inline versus ice skating?

Hot on the heels about my question for skiing versus inline skating...

Are there significant differences between inline skating and ice skating? Personally, when I started inline skating, I found a few differences:

Falls seemed scarier on inlines (resulting in poorer stance+balance)
inlines less maneuverable (at least my 84mm wheels are)
Stopping totally different (hockey stop is easy on ice skates for me--yet I'm afraid to try a power slide on inlines. even t-stops are out of the question for me.)

But now that I've taken lessons, it's as if the differences have mostly evaporated. Stopping is still different, but maneuverability issues have disappeared. And I've kind of gotten over the fear of falling--but still haven't fallen on inlines versus regular falls on ice skates / skis when developing skills. You guys see any other differences or similarities? Will all of this inline skating translate back into improvements in ice skating technique?
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Old July 4th, 2011, 09:07 AM   #2
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Never been ice skating, but my friend tells me the differences all come down to ice skates having no traction when vertical, and inlines have all of it. i.e. slides on inlines require getting low and using much wheel angle, and much aggressive force, so are decidedly trickier, than simply turning an ice skate sideways when vertical.

BTW, Inlines will turn *much* better if you rocker them (use 80/84/84/80mm wheels), to simulate the curved blade of ice skates. Unstable at very high speeds though.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 05:41 AM   #3
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I find ice more difficult. The blade is narrower than wheels, thus balance becomes more important. Also, I'm not used to my foot being jerked in random directions as the ice skate's blade encounters grooves in the ice from other skaters.

In terms of falling, I find ice to be frightening in that there's no traction. Usually with inline I can find some last ditch way to recover my balance or at the very least control the fall. With ice, I get the sensation that I'm going down and there's not much left to do.

I can't help but think there'll be some translation between the two different types of skating. I first started quads when I was 4, inline skating when I was 16. First time ice skating was 24 and I didn't find it all that difficult. More of an adjustment than a completely new skill set.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 07:56 PM   #4
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I find ice skating less dangerous than inline skating, more suitable for learning new skills. Ice skate blade is much more predictable as it doesn't deform unlike wheels. Hockey stop, 1 foot glide, backward crossovers are easier on ice skates. Inline skater should adjust very quickly, in a few hours at most. When you move from ice skates back to inlines in spring, you will find them harder to maneouver, more unstable even if they are rockered.

If I could choose between ice and inline skating on comparable trails, I would choose ice skating. When ice is wet, it seems to have much less friction than inline skate wheels, less effort is needed to maintain very high speed. Inline skating gets more interesting in the summer because of good weather, more interesting trails (instead of just skating on ice rink).

Women ice skates are awful with those teeth, many women can't use them anyway and they are thus just hindrance in skating, as they are affraid to skate faster and use them merely for pushing. If you are female, give male ice skates a chance.
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 04:03 AM   #5
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Yeah, falls are scarier on inlines!
First, here's where I'm coming from; I learned to ice skate around age 4 or 5. I went to roller skating rinks occatioinally with groups of friends from jr high through high school. Was never very good at it, always went back to ice. Then when I was in my mid 20's inlines came around, and by the time I was around 30, Rollerblade had made them popular, and I finally bought a pair.
So, for me there were 2 reasons why falling on inlines frightened me a little more; Ice isn't as abrasive. You fall down, and as long as you didn't crack an elbow, knee, or your head, you wait to stop sliding, get up, and go on. No road rash from ice. Falling on inlines indoors on a rink isn't so bad, but that's not really what they were made for, is it? Reason #2 is; You just wear heavier clothes when you're on ice! That's also why skiing isn't as scary. All the heavy gear. Have you ever been skiing in the spring in shorts and short sleeves and thrown a yardsale at 20 or 30 mph? Snow hurts when you're not in winter clothes!

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Old July 25th, 2011, 03:53 AM   #6
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I grew up ice skating. As long as my blades were sharpened properly, I had no issues. I don't skate competitively any more but still ice skate recreationally.

FWIW, the other night at an open skate, I attempted a toe loop on my quads and was able to land it without landing on my ass
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Old August 8th, 2011, 05:17 AM   #7
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That's cool--thanks for all the replies! I'm finding a lot of my experience similar to all of yours.

I've been getting more comfortable on inline skates thanks to some great coaching from my friend Lorne (For anyone in Vancouver, his lessons are amazing, and the pricing is phenomenal - his site's here: http://www.inlineskatingvancouver.com/ ). And having switched to some 100mm skates with really good arch support, I've actually started doing some ice skating moves, like mohawk turns and spin stops. and they feel vaguely similar to ice skates now.

So your inline skates seriously influence how similar the feel is to ice skating.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 05:14 AM   #8
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I'm a pretty good ice skater (freestyle and dance) and I'm getting to be pretty good on quads (derby and jam) but I was never able to master my inlines, and not for lack of trying. With both quads and ice skates there is a clear "edge" inside or outside- I never found that place on my inlines. I eventually gave up on them and put together some outdoor quads, which I love. But maybe this is just me.
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Old December 27th, 2011, 05:57 AM   #9
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Talking speed, hockey, downhill,

Question... what kind of rollerblading are you comparing to what kind of ice-skating?

there is no comparing speedskating to icehockey or quadskating to longtrack, right?

For me i'm a reasonable longtrack skater, but I *know* even the blades of longtrack are totally different from hockey or figure-skating.

compared to speedskating you are a lot lower to the "ground" on ice ... with is easier for the ankles. From 110 mm on wheels you go to a comparable "60 mm" on ice...

And very right - clothing is quite different too....
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Originally Posted by Java View Post
Yeah, falls are scarier on inlines!..... Snow hurts when you're not in winter clothes!
had a fall doing downhill (alpine) skiing on a nice sunny spring day: T-shirt...

where "normally" when i'm dressed for skiing I dont mind falling....
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Old December 27th, 2011, 04:33 PM   #10
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Default This question seems "Right up my ally"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
Hot on the heels about my question for skiing versus inline skating...

Are there significant differences between inline skating and ice skating? Personally, when I started inline skating, I found a few differences:

Falls seemed scarier on inlines (resulting in poorer stance+balance)
inlines less maneuverable (at least my 84mm wheels are)
Stopping totally different (hockey stop is easy on ice skates for me--yet I'm afraid to try a power slide on inlines. even t-stops are out of the question for me.)

But now that I've taken lessons, it's as if the differences have mostly evaporated. Stopping is still different, but maneuverability issues have disappeared. And I've kind of gotten over the fear of falling--but still haven't fallen on inlines versus regular falls on ice skates / skis when developing skills. You guys see any other differences or similarities? Will all of this inline skating translate back into improvements in ice skating technique?
Yes, you onto something here. In the beginning they are different however as you progress you will see those differences practically disappear. *There are some exceptions which I will get to shortly.

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Originally Posted by OTA View Post
I find ice more difficult. The blade is narrower than wheels, thus balance becomes more important. Also, I'm not used to my foot being jerked in random directions as the ice skate's blade encounters grooves in the ice from other skaters.

In terms of falling, I find ice to be frightening in that there's no traction. Usually with inline I can find some last ditch way to recover my balance or at the very least control the fall. With ice, I get the sensation that I'm going down and there's not much left to do.

I can't help but think there'll be some translation between the two different types of skating. I first started quads when I was 4, inline skating when I was 16. First time ice skating was 24 and I didn't find it all that difficult. More of an adjustment than a completely new skill set.
I would be willing to bet you were on rentals right? Ok bare with me on this one, I have always said ice skating is its own worst enemy! What I mean by this is you go on your 1st time or perhaps the 1st time in awhile and you are using rentals, odds are they are made of plastic they are broken down or perhaps leather that is also broken down. Neither of which are broken in to your feet nor are the blades centered for your weight/center of balance. (mainly talking figure skates here since they can be adjusted much like speed skate frames, just the adjustments are smaller) Wait it gets better the blades have probably not been sharpened in a very long time, there are reasons why this happens (all of which are wrong).

1. First reason is labor cost: It takes time to sharpen skates properly say 20 minutes, so the owners/managers have to pay somebody to sharpen them. So it takes an hour to sharpen three pairs of skates and if your rink has 300 pairs it would take 100 hours to sharpen them all, say at $10 per hour that's $1000, oh yeah blades get dull so need to be sharpened say about every 6 weeks (I recommend every 3 weeks but remember we are talking about rentals here) so at 6 weeks per sharpening that would be 8-9 times per year for 300 skates meaning $9000 per year on sharpening labor cost.

2.Blade life: (mostly non-skating owner/managers) so each time you sharpen a blade you are taking a small amount of the tempered steel off the blade so not only am I saving money by not sharpening them but I'm extending the life of the skate blade! (really your not, if the skate is not sharpened the blade will slide around and follow other grooves in the ice.) The skater is more likely to fall more and perhaps get injured or injure somebody else will dull rental skates on!

3. Injuries: "if the blades are dull they will be less likely to cut somebody in a fall" On this one I'd say maybe not completely false but odds are with a sharpened skate the fall probably would not have occurred to begin with.

Anyway so the skates hurt your feet, they are dull so you slide around and spent more time laying on the ice than you did skating on it. You probably had a horrible time and tell yourself that you are never doing this again! I always tell people that are interested in seasonal ice skating or going 6-10 times in a Winter to buy a pair of skates and have them sharpened regularly. Even used hockey skates off E-bay would be better than rentals. You will enjoy the experience and even want to come back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaro View Post
I find ice skating less dangerous than inline skating, more suitable for learning new skills. Ice skate blade is much more predictable as it doesn't deform unlike wheels. Hockey stop, 1 foot glide, backward crossovers are easier on ice skates. Inline skater should adjust very quickly, in a few hours at most. When you move from ice skates back to inlines in spring, you will find them harder to maneouver, more unstable even if they are rockered.

If I could choose between ice and inline skating on comparable trails, I would choose ice skating. When ice is wet, it seems to have much less friction than inline skate wheels, less effort is needed to maintain very high speed. Inline skating gets more interesting in the summer because of good weather, more interesting trails (instead of just skating on ice rink).

Women ice skates are awful with those teeth, many women can't use them anyway and they are thus just hindrance in skating, as they are affraid to skate faster and use them merely for pushing. If you are female, give male ice skates a chance.
I'll say I agree with the less resistance on ice skates. On inlines you have much more to look out for like trash, small items, holes/cracks, rocks, twigs and even car fluid spills and like oil if you on say a empty parking lot. And with worn spots on wheels and such.

Now for my favorite the toe-pick on figure skates because that is the biggest difference between figure skates and hockey skates right? Actually I don't believe it is. What else does a Figure skate have that hockey skate does not have? A Heel: This means your center of gravity is different right off the bat! When you see most hockey skaters they have their knees bent and they lean forward, this is where you will find the best center of balance, while when you watch a figure skater they remain mostly upright bending at the knees only that's because with the heel an upright posture puts you where you need to be on the blade.

Now for the rest hockey skates have a thinner blade than figure skates they also have less of a rocker so there is more blade to ice contact. Figure skates have more of a rocker/radius but the blade is wider than a hockey blade. I don't want to write a book here, so for now I'm leaving ice speed blades out of it. I will say that figure and hockey skates have a concave hollow ground into them when sharpening and speed blades do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasterne View Post
I'm a pretty good ice skater (freestyle and dance) and I'm getting to be pretty good on quads (derby and jam) but I was never able to master my inlines, and not for lack of trying. With both quads and ice skates there is a clear "edge" inside or outside- I never found that place on my inlines. I eventually gave up on them and put together some outdoor quads, which I love. But maybe this is just me.
Well it is most likely the type of inlines you are trying to use. Each type skate has a purpose and they are not created equally. I have more questions for you than answers like what type/brand of inlines are you trying to use? What type of wheels, size and hardness? What type of surface are skating on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
Question... what kind of rollerblading are you comparing to what kind of ice-skating?

there is no comparing speedskating to icehockey or quadskating to longtrack, right?
I actually compare them all the time, As a small child (4-6) I skated quads, after that I grew up in the ice rink figure skating and playing hockey. As a teenager I also got into inlines since our rink started to close during the Summer, I also went back to quads too for speed and Artistic. As an adult I got into Inline speed skating while I was serving in the Army and stationed in Italy, also did some Ice speed skating briefly in Asiago, Italy. In Italy the banked parabolic tracks were often around a flat outdoor skate area. These sometimes had aggressive skateparks (ramps) in them too so yeah I did that also. After I left the service I moved home to Birmingham, Alabama where I wanted to open a speed skating track with a skatepark in the center.......tracks cost way to much so I opened a skate park in Birmingham. It was open for many years but I only stayed with it for about 3.5 years then decided to join the Army again. My Mom kept it open for another 6 years after that. Now I could start talking about aggressive skates and their qualities but I already rambled way to much....

Oh I'm 42 with about 38 years of skating experience. Here is a few video links in case anyone is curious about my screen name:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnNzydTkBwU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7SFteRC6zs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-Rqj4lbyZ4

-Dale
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Old January 1st, 2012, 12:38 PM   #11
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Cool compare / differences

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I actually compare them all the time
wich is as sensible with respect to the started question/subject as "comparing" banana-eating to kicking a football.

when there are no similarities, what does a comparison makes sense for?
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Old January 1st, 2012, 01:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
wich is as sensible with respect to the started question/subject as "comparing" banana-eating to kicking a football.

when there are no similarities, what does a comparison makes sense for?
With all due respect I disagree, they all involve skating and I for one at least see there are more similarities between quads, inline, and ice than differences. I have done many variations of these and different disciplines in each often in the same day in fact. I was not blasting your opinion just discussing mine. I may be the exception to the norm but the general mechanics of skating remain the same, you have inside and outside edges for all of these types of skating do you not? But hey I've only been at this for 38 years now so what do I know?

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Old January 1st, 2012, 06:23 PM   #13
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I see quite a few similarities between inline speed skating and both short track and long track ice skating. I also see a few very subtle differences.

Of course there are the obvious similarities in body positioning, stride, push, glide, recovery, etc. During starts there is the common wild flailing of arms and legs as racers stomp away from the line.

For me... one of the not-so-subtle differences comes from the weight difference between inline and ice. The high weight of the 110mm wheels is quite difficult to throw around for long periods of time and make it difficult to get rapid footspeed changes compared to a short track blade... and the fast footspeed is much more draining to maintain.

Ice short track turns compared to indoor inline turns are interesting to compare/contrast. Inline turns are dependant on friction between wheels and floor and thus there are limits to the amount of speed a skater can carry before breaking loose and flying out to the turn. With ice skating... the blade engages the ice and allows much higher speeds in turns without 'blowing out'. This means the ice skater's legs must carry and push thru much higher G loads thru the turns.

An aspect of blades vs wheels which has become evident to me recently is the relative forgiveness wheels have when setting down not quite perfectly. If you set down inlines on your rear wheel... not such a big problem because it is spinning at speed already and not much momentum is lost. If you set down an ice blade on its back end... you send up a spray of ice chips and throw away momentum in the process. I just switched to a different ST setup and am having trouble fine tuning the equipment and my stroke to get 'quiet' again. My new setup is allowing me to be faster because I can push harder and farther... but I'm not getting the most benefit yet because of my flawed set-down.

If you set down an inline on its front wheel... again, not such a big deal. If you set down an ice blade on its front you have a very high chance of the tip digging in and throwing you off your skates and into the sidewall.

And when you go down... your body is flying into other skaters with razor sharp edges. Short track skaters wear a lot of kevlar. Sometimes it is in the form of a total-body suit underneath their team skinsuit. Often kevlar is sewn into specific locations inside the team suit. I wear kevlar leggings, gloves, neck gaiter, protective eyeglasses and a helmet with a bit more coverage than the common ice helmet to help keep blades away from my face when I go down. I've not had any worries about bleeding out and dying because I got run over by an inline.

I've not touched on the subject of the power stroke on Long Track clap blades compared to inlines. There's a real can of worms for you!
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Old January 1st, 2012, 06:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I see quite a few similarities between inline speed skating and both short track and long track ice skating. I also see a few very subtle differences.
Well said! This is the kind of discussion I was hoping this thread would stimulate.

Instead of "banana-eating to kicking a football" statements.

Happy New Year,
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Old January 1st, 2012, 07:09 PM   #15
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No Problem!

Just watched your video clips.

Why the heck aren't any of you guys wearing helmets as you thrash around on jumps, rails and tables? This is traumatic brain injury just waiting to happen! I'm really surprised the rink allows you on the ice like that. I know it isn't cool or macho... but I can live with that. Functioning gray matter I cannot live without.
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Old January 1st, 2012, 07:35 PM   #16
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No Problem!

Just watched your video clips.

Why the heck aren't any of you guys wearing helmets as you thrash around on jumps, rails and tables? This is traumatic brain injury just waiting to happen! I'm really surprised the rink allows you on the ice like that. I know it isn't cool or macho... but I can live with that. Functioning gray matter I cannot live without.
Ok I'm not saying I disagree, and we have touched on this topic while discussing another thread "why don't speed skaters wear pads" in the Speed forum. I can't answer for everyone but I grew up figure skating and I can say that there are jumps that can take you 5+ feet high and length from take-off to landing is over 20' not to mention that pairs figure skaters are getting lifted well above somebody's head, or the "death spiral" where the girls head is coming within a inch of the ice while she being swung around by her partner. So why don't figure skaters wear helmets then? Anyway having grown up in that environment, I am in my comfort zone without them. However when I speed skate on inline skates I wear a helmet (with exception to recently while I was skating here in Afghanistan, I was still waiting on one to arrive) When I play Ice Hockey I gear up in full gear. Now for aggressive skating I used to own a skate park and it was so difficult to get the skaters to wear even just a helmet. We did it but it required constant supervision. Part of the problem were the skate videos/DVD's that are out today, NONE of the pro skaters wear any protective gear and of course the kids always want to be just like them right?

Anyway I concede that you are correct we should have been wearing a helmet at least. Hindsight is always 20/20.

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Old January 1st, 2012, 09:55 PM   #17
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Sorry.... I shouldn't have beat on that dead horse again.

along the lines of protection... many short track suits have built in knee pads and internal pockets for removeable rigid shin guards.
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Old January 2nd, 2012, 04:02 AM   #18
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Finally made it to the ice rink, and had an absolute blast. It felt compellingly familiar but oddly wrong to begin with. But the wrongness dropped away pretty fast. It initially felt a bit disconcerting, that there was no obvious reason for having traction at all. It felt, quite frankly, like it was magic, and one just had to have faith (luckily Faith is my middle name - literally! )

I thought having to work the edges would mess me up, given how sloppy one can be with them on inlines (hell, you can even turn on inlines with boots leaned outwards!). But a small amount of extra attention to that cleared it up, and was by the end of the session was getting the hang of modulating the grip. Which incidentally is quite like you do when skiing.

All and all, my inlining (and skiing) instincts served me extremely well. Was doing crossovers within 5 mins of getting on the ice, and by the end of session almost everything I can do on inlines I could also do on ice. Some things were perhaps even easier, notably grapevine, due to the slidiness of everything, you don't need to continually lift wheels like you do on wheeled skates. Slides are especially easier. You can get slides happening without being super aggressive. I had the beginnings of a hockey stop coming along by the end of session, which is more than I can say about my inlining.

Only trap thing was a tendency to catch my toe pick when doing crossovers, and occasionally when trying to "toe wheel" a free skate behind me.

It's lots of fun. I definitely recommend it.
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Old January 2nd, 2012, 06:47 AM   #19
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Finally made it to the ice rink, and had an absolute blast. It felt compellingly familiar but oddly wrong to begin with. But the wrongness dropped away pretty fast. It initially felt a bit disconcerting, that there was no obvious reason for having traction at all. It felt, quite frankly, like it was magic, and one just had to have faith (luckily Faith is my middle name - literally! )
Well Faith, had the skates been sharpened you would have had the traction you were missing. Glad you enjoyed it!

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Old January 2nd, 2012, 07:18 AM   #20
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Well Faith, had the skates been sharpened you would have had the traction you were missing. Glad you enjoyed it!

-Dale
Mental rentals. No choice! But I think I got lucky - they weren't too bad. I never felt I was lacking enough traction, I just found it hard to swallow that metal-on-ice could achieve it!

Actually I think sharper blades may have been counterproductive. Much of my fun today was doing the sort of things in a really lazy fashion (like grapevines and 360s), that on inlines require actual physical effort and precision. If the blades had been sharper I think I would have had to be just as precise.

Think I want to buy some ice skates now. I don't want anything with a toe pick (I can live without being able to do those three art jumps that need it). Toe picks/stops & me = asking for face plants. Not keen on hockey skates (too uncomfy). So I was looking at rec skates like Bladerunner or similar. Being an ice newbie, I'm not sure what the in-and-outs of skate selection are. I know most rec inlines suck because the frames are too long to be maneuverable, but it seems on ice blade length isn't all that important? Advice please...
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