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Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

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Old April 5th, 2016, 02:08 PM   #1
Juice_
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Default SG Avenger Skate/Plate Tuning

Hello All,

I've read many similar threads here on the forum regarding SG Avengers and I'm having trouble make sense of all of it. I'm gonna spit out some basics here to hopefully keep it short.

I'm a derby skater, primarily a jammer. I'm 5'1 and about 125 lbs. For two years, I skated on basic Sure Grip Rebels with a Probe plate. I changed those up eventually too better bearings and purple cushions and loosened the trucks. And was using 88a Heartless wheels (loved these suckers). We skate on a mix of floors, Mondays its super sticky sport court and on Thursday it is polished concrete.

I upgraded to a new sure grip boot (which I love) and a sport mounted SG Avenger plate with purple cushions, trucks tighten all the way down and same wheels. I could immediately tell these plates were different but not in a bad way, just different. My issue is - I cannot for the life of me plow stop anymore. I cannot get chatter. I just glid and slide and go and never stop.

Is this a technique issue? I have a feeling it is due to the fact that the axle is now located in a different place along my foot.

Any advice?
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Old April 5th, 2016, 03:41 PM   #2
Shazzamm1971
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Default Why are you running such a stiff set up?

If your using SG Purple cushions at your weight your doing it all wrong. Work your way from Purple to yellow to BLUE with progressively looser action. Actually just go get the blues and start there with preload (cranked down). Make sure you adjust the pivot pin with each change of the kingpin nut preload. Should just be seated with no slop and not jacking the truck hanger either. Find the sweet spot. I use an 81 duro floor side and a 85 duro cushion skate side and weigh 210Lbs. My daughter is closer to your weight at 85lbs and with the blue SG cushions in she prefers the blues with a half turn on the kingpin nut. She has only been running this plate for a week and absolutely rocks it.
Your setup with the "purples with adjuster cranked down" is so wrong. Whoever set up you skates or gave you the advice needs to back away from the wrench.
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Old April 5th, 2016, 03:46 PM   #3
Juice_
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazzamm1971 View Post
Make sure you adjust the pivot pin with each change of the kingpin nut preload. Should just be seated with no slop and not jacking the truck hanger either.
Can you explain this more clearly? Maybe I'll go ask YouTube, I'm a pretty visual person anyway.
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Old April 5th, 2016, 05:07 PM   #4
Armadillo
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Default

In a nutshell, this is your problem:
Your 88A wheels are too soft for the improved action of the Avenger plate, which keeps the wheels in better contact with the floor for their full width as you lean the plate.

The 88A wheels have too large a contact patch & grip for your light weight, unless they tip up off the floor some, which the Avenger design minimizes.

Yes, going softer on cushions is smart, but won't help unless you also, more importantly, go firmer on the wheel duro.

The Avenger plates should still maintain adequate grip for you using decent wheels in the low 90's duro range, and even with their keeping wheels down on floor more, they should be able to break free from the floor enough to do the plow stops with some chatter.

-Armadillo
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Old April 5th, 2016, 06:27 PM   #5
Juice_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
In a nutshell, this is your problem:
Your 88A wheels are too soft for the improved action of the Avenger plate, which keeps the wheels in better contact with the floor for their full width as you lean the plate.

The 88A wheels have too large a contact patch & grip for your light weight, unless they tip up off the floor some, which the Avenger design minimizes.

Yes, going softer on cushions is smart, but won't help unless you also, more importantly, go firmer on the wheel duro.

The Avenger plates should still maintain adequate grip for you using decent wheels in the low 90's duro range, and even with their keeping wheels down on floor more, they should be able to break free from the floor enough to do the plow stops with some chatter.

-Armadillo
I have some yellow cushions, will switch those out.

In some ways it just feels counter-intuitive to use harder (i.e. slicker) wheels when all I'm already doing is sliding during my plows, no?

I will take the suggestion though and borrow some wheels from a friend and go skate around tonight to see how it feels.
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Old April 5th, 2016, 08:44 PM   #6
Armadillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice_ View Post
I have some yellow cushions, will switch those out.

In some ways it just feels counter-intuitive to use harder (i.e. slicker) wheels when all I'm already doing is sliding during my plows, no?

I will take the suggestion though and borrow some wheels from a friend and go skate around tonight to see how it feels.
Yes, I misread that OP, and harder will likely slide more.
If wheels are sliding without slowing you, then wheels obviously aren't gripping, and harder will likely grip less. Are there any grooves left in the 88A wheels? 88A wheels should not lose ALL all their plow stopping grip from just the plate swap. How many other wheel sets have you tried on the new plates?

Sometimes if the wheel contact patch is too large, the wheel can ride up on top of the floor's dirt/dust breaking grip. On a dusty floor, a firmer wheel with fresh grooves can often plow stop better than a soft wheel with no grooves.
The grooves accept the dirt and keep the urethane from being pried up off the floor by dirt/dust.

How dirty are the 88A wheels and how dirty/dusty is the is the floor?
Do 88A wheels slide out on turns too, with the Advantage plates, when you are going fast?
Dusty floors neutralize grip for both firm and soft wheels, especially when grooves are shallow or missing.

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