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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old December 27th, 2008, 08:07 AM   #1
MachV
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Default Finding your optimal skate set-up

http://www.pureskatingnews.com/2008/...te-set-up.html

and it's companion article: 104mm & 110mm wheels compared

http://www.pureskatingnews.com/2008/...-compared.html
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Old December 27th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #2
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Default interesting

These are both interesting articles, unfortunately moving between wheel sizes can become expensive.
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Old December 27th, 2008, 01:02 PM   #3
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Another perspective is to consider that skating at one's best requires optimizing equipment (wheels, frames, boots), technique, and body, to a specific type of skating. Skaters have been known to decide which type of skating (e.g., indoor, track, marathon, A2A) to focus on for a season, and to optimize everything for that. Ths is done early enough in the season to build muscles and physiology must suitable for the selected type of skating, and tuned to the equipment.
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Old December 27th, 2008, 07:44 PM   #4
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i agree with the points the articles are making for the most part, and it's been widely understood for some time now, well over a year or two anyways.

But what surprises me is that they (MPC) are coming out with a 104mm wheel. This seems like a misstep, imo. The difference between 104mm and 100mm is little more than an eighth-of-an-inch (1/8"+). This is very little, and will have not much of an advantage over an 100mm set-up. I was expecting companies to come out with 106mm. And let me point out that a few mm of differences are more significant at the high end (approaching 110mm), where a skaters abilities are stretched to the limits, than at the low end (100mm), where a skater is presumably comfortable already.

The only reason i can think that this was done (going with a 104mm wheel rather than a 106mm or 107mm), was that the 104 mm wheel could be skated on most 100mm frames, while a 105 or 106mm wheel could only be skated on perhaps one brand of 100m frame, and would require a whole new round of frames by skate manufacturers, (whihc would either not be deemed to be cost effective, or at least, not welcomed whatsoever).

So, this is a way of putting new wheels on the market, whihc will probably be only marginally beneficial to some skaters. What would have been really beneficial- a 106mm wheel - would have required too much re-tooling by the manufacturers, and is not to be at this time.

I think there are many other considerations pertinent to this topic whihc could be considered, but the big point here is that the entry point in the straight sub-110 set-up has been entered at a point not much different than the existing 100mm baseline. Perhaps it will have some usefulness to indoor skaters more so than to outdoors, and i would expect this to be the case, where turning and maneuverablity are more in demand. But for outdoor set-ups, my feeling in that regard is, why bother?
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Old December 27th, 2008, 08:11 PM   #5
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There are all ready two frames on the market that do hold wheels up to 105, one being the ION by liberty sport the other is the pilot trixie.

I know matter has outdoor wheels in 105's
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Old December 27th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #6
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Thanks, good to know.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 03:50 AM   #7
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I am pretty sure the 104 is an OEM wheel for Cado Motus. MPC is making 105s for themselves, of that I am positive.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 04:17 AM   #8
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104mm wheels keep the frame to 12.4 if needed.This is quite a sweet spot for smaller footed skaters .
106mm wheels takes the frame out to 12.6 which I feel is getting a little to big for myself anyway.
Question..will we see hybrids with these new wheel sizes?
105/105/100/105 for example.
is 4 x 104 or 105 better than 110/100/100/110?
To many questions and the skaters now have a lot of choice,unfortunately I have to pick on gut instinct as it is impossible to try all the combinations which may or may not be better.
At least we have choice now though..I remember 13.5 inch frames with 72mm wheels was all we had,looking back its no wonder we had trouble changing from quad to inline.

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Old December 28th, 2008, 04:33 AM   #9
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I think you may be right about the Cado Motus, as the articles have a very prominent advertisement for Cado Motus on the top of the page.

Kiwi, i think frame length makes a very big difference from my experience. I have tried a few frames in 110 straight set-ups and in hybrids, and anything less than about 13" is just too short for me, and i feel like i am losing power. But i would have to describe myself as a strong skater, elite veteran, 5' -7" size 8 US boot, 150#, and the standard for my comparisons is how i perform at marathon distance outdoor. I also use only 20mm wide wheels for point of comparisons. I have been on a 13.4" Ion Avenger for the last year or so, if not longer, and that is optimal length as for me.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 05:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by online inline View Post
I think you may be right about the Cado Motus, as the articles have a very prominent advertisement for Cado Motus on the top of the page.

I have been on a 13.4" Ion Avenger for the last year or so, if not longer, and that is optimal length as for me.

It is Cado Motus' website. The articles are written by the sponsored skaters from their testing and racing.
Same comments that have come from gneal & others. lol.

4x110 Avenger is 13.2".
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Old December 28th, 2008, 05:32 AM   #11
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Yes, the Ion Avenger is 13.2". Do you remember how long the early Mogema 4x110 was?
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Old December 28th, 2008, 05:56 AM   #12
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Original Mogema 4x110 was 13.2". It was basically the same frame as the 13.2" 4x100, but machined differently.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 06:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwimaster View Post
Question..will we see hybrids with these new wheel sizes?

Kiwi
That depends on wether or not skaters get over the fact that they should be on a skate with different size wheels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwimaster View Post
is 4 x 104 or 105 better than 110/100/100/110?

Kiwi
The 110/100/100/110 would be the same "gear" as a 4x105.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 12:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwimaster View Post
Question..will we see hybrids with these new wheel sizes?
105/105/100/105 for example.
YES this is why I answered positively about he 105 MPC. PLUS, MPC had 105s @ Worlds (w/ 110 hubs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwimaster View Post
is 4 x 104 or 105 better than 110/100/100/110?
Kiwi
According to the Cado site, they put a 3-1 as 'faster' than a 4-104, and would assume a 4-105.


I wouldn't make a 4-104 @ 12.4 as that only puts 1mm between the wheels, ASSUMING they were actually 104mm from the factory, which I have yet to see a wheel made that isn't almost 1+ mm big from the factory. 12.5" would be the shortest I would SAFELY make a 4-104, and 12.625" for a 4-105. Our 4-wheel frame is currently 12.75", and have no plans on changing length, just adding 2mm to the deck for clearance for some of the newer boots that are coming out so you can use 105s.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 05:26 PM   #15
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Hi George.
It would be helpful to know the distance from the front axle to the front mount so as to be sure of a 50/50 set up before ordering frames.
My boot was especially made to fit one frame(Millennium) so now that I am looking at changing I need to be sure my set up isn't compromised.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 09:10 PM   #16
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Which frame do you want??
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Old December 29th, 2008, 12:23 AM   #17
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I havn't decided yet.I think it would be a good thing in general if these dimensions were included,I would not be pleased if I bought a frame and it didn't sit nicely on my boot.
Actually I would never buy a frame without confirming this.


I did a quick breakdown of all possible combinations of 110/105 and 100mm wheels from 4 x 100 to 4 x 110. I got to 12 different skates that all look reasonable..gears 1-12 if you will.


Online inline..I am 5'8" 158ibs(still weight to come off I should be 150)
I consider myself fairly strong (for an old guy)but I use a short frame as I skate all distances from 200m to marathons, bank track and road.
the short frame helps me with leg speed and getting around in the pack which is a bit lacking in my skill set with larger frames..
I am sure if I skated marathons only then i would most likely use something a bit longer.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 01:22 AM   #18
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kiwi, we are of similar stature and not too different in age, i would guess.

If my experience may be of any help, i went back and forth for quite a while between 4x110 to 3x110+100, to even trying 106mm wheels on a 4x110 frame. I did this over about three years time, skating outdoor marathon distance primarily.

Only recently did i feel that the 4x110 frame was my best weapon, without doubt. And remember, i do not do any of the track skating you do nor the shorter distances, which would probably predispose you to a shorter frame.

With that in mind, i would think you might make a good best guess at a sub-13" frame, all the way down to a 12.8" or 12.75" ideally. And if i were you, i would try out the 4x105 frames as they avoid the pitfalls of the hybrids, though if you wanted a frame to be as low as possible (for indoor, say), i would seriously consider a hybrid in order to get the lower deck height. In a sprint type race, you might use that same frame and equip it with 100mm wheels for better speed off the line.

Hope this helps.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 03:30 PM   #19
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gneal wrote:
Quote:
I have yet to see a wheel made that isn't almost 1+ mm big from the factory.
Thanks for posting this as it confirms my recent experience with a new set of 100mm wheels on my TruRev frame. The #2 wheel touched #1 and/or the frame mount bolt on each frame. My solution was to use an old 100mm worn down to @ 96mm in the #2 position for a few weeks, then move #1 to the #2 position and then put the unused new wheels in the front.

Since I skate outdoors exclusively, I've wondered how much space should be between the wheels? What is the safer spacing to minimize leaf and tree trash jams?

I'm considering going to a 110mm frame with 100mm or 105mm wheels to get used to the change in frame height and/or increased wheel size. Your imput will be helpful as I consider the many options available.

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