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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old October 2nd, 2015, 10:54 PM   #1
ese002
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Default MPC Black Magics in the rain?

The weather watch for A2A has begun and while it is much to early to call, right now the forecast looks sketchy.

On an 87 mile course, mounting rain wheels when it is mostly dry is almost as bad as mounting dry wheels when it is rainy.

Does anyone know how Black Magic's perform in the rain? I'm trying to determine how quick I should be to mount the Storm Surge's.

Last year I needed rain wheels but did not have them. I had just moved to 110's and the only rain wheels I had were 100's. Naturally, the WRW Truth 87A's I was using turned out to be absolutely abysmal in the rain.

I am somewhat optimistic about the Black Magic's. In certain contexts they are billed as track wheels. My 100mm rain wheels are actually re-purposed track wheels.
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Old October 3rd, 2015, 03:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ese002 View Post
The weather watch for A2A has begun and while it is much to early to call, right now the forecast looks sketchy.

On an 87 mile course, mounting rain wheels when it is mostly dry is almost as bad as mounting dry wheels when it is rainy.

Does anyone know how Black Magic's perform in the rain? I'm trying to determine how quick I should be to mount the Storm Surge's.

Last year I needed rain wheels but did not have them. I had just moved to 110's and the only rain wheels I had were 100's. Naturally, the WRW Truth 87A's I was using turned out to be absolutely abysmal in the rain.

I am somewhat optimistic about the Black Magic's. In certain contexts they are billed as track wheels. My 100mm rain wheels are actually re-purposed track wheels.
As a general rule, the MPC range seems to hold its own in the wet. Not just the storm surges. Maybe some Road War Evo's might be a better bet. More flex in the hub. The stiffer hub in the magics might make them more slick than the Evos.
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Old October 5th, 2015, 03:52 PM   #3
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Hi,

I use the BM's (76kg, XF at wheels 1/4 and XXF at 3/4). Last year we had a marathon (4 laps) where 50% of the road was wet (not soaking wet but there was drizzle rain for some time). No issue at all, others who had Road-War (non-Turbo, great rain wheel, better than Storm!) were not much better at the hill that we had to climb.

For A2A I'd go for Atom Boom, they are about as fast as the BM and sticky in the rain. Friend of mine races on them and confirms they are great. I habe not tried them personally but seen my friend skate (we are most often in the same, not too slow, group).

Hope this helps
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Old October 5th, 2015, 05:25 PM   #4
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So could someone please summarize the differences between the following wheels as far as their suitability for different surfaces/uses:

Atom Boom (MPC compound)
Atom Boom Magic (has the MPC compound but stiffer mpc hub??)
MPC Turbo (the road war outdoor version)
MPC Road War Evolution
MPC Black Magic (same as evolution with stiffer hub???)

Is the Atom Boom pretty much the same as the Road War Evolution?
And the Boom Magic pretty much the same as the MPC Black Magic?

MPC can make a really good compound, but their marketing falls short as far as differentiating between models and changes over time! Not to mention rebranded wheels by other companies.

Thx.
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Old October 5th, 2015, 07:49 PM   #5
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...MPC can make a really good compound, but their marketing falls short as far as differentiating between models and changes over time! Not to mention rebranded wheels by other companies.

Thx.
No wheel manufacturer is actually good at explaining the differences between their own wheels, nor on much of any objective scale for any particular aspect. Durometer isn't particularly helpful, but at least it's an objective scale that can be measured, but those aren't listed for most wheels, either.

Imagine if we have Coefficient of Friction (mu) measurements on various surfaces (2 different kinds of roll-on, other indoor surfaces, polished concrete, rough concrete, asphalt, coated concrete track) at various weights and maybe angles (like 20lbs/wheel, 30, 40, 50, and at 90 degree angle, 70, 50.) And dry Vs. wet grip. Objective rolling resistance measurements, also at weights and angles?

Yes, that's a lot of measurements, but boy howdy, how nice would even a quarter of those measurements be. A 10th. Just give me a few I can compare against further than marketing terms and (no offence, anyone) anecdotal reviews.
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Old October 5th, 2015, 09:06 PM   #6
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No wheel manufacturer is actually good at explaining the differences between their own wheels, nor on much of any objective scale for any particular aspect.
Quite true. However, MPC is especially obscure. I picked up the Black Magic's at the New York 100K last year. It wasn't until a few weeks ago I learned that MPC considered them to be track wheels. It still is not mentioned on the web site. It only appears in an announcement on their Facebook page.

Hyper used to rank their wheels by grip, roll, and wear. You had to take all of their estimations with a grain of salt but at least they tried. Of course, this was a time all manufacturers listed durometer.
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Old October 6th, 2015, 05:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajasen View Post
So could someone please summarize the differences between the following wheels as far as their suitability for different surfaces/uses:

Atom Boom (MPC compound)
Atom Boom Magic (has the MPC compound but stiffer mpc hub??)
MPC Turbo (the road war outdoor version)
MPC Road War Evolution
MPC Black Magic (same as evolution with stiffer hub???)

Is the Atom Boom pretty much the same as the Road War Evolution?
And the Boom Magic pretty much the same as the MPC Black Magic?

MPC can make a really good compound, but their marketing falls short as far as differentiating between models and changes over time! Not to mention rebranded wheels by other companies.

Thx.
You can add the Bont Red Magic to this group. Before Northshore I searched the net for info on these wheels (excluding the Turbo which I believe is an older generation wheel and the Atom Boom Magic which I've never heard of until now). Here is the best guess from what I found on the internet (remember what Abraham Lincoln said about the internet). The only difference is supposedly the hubs. The RW Evolution has a softer hub than Black Magic. Bont Red Magic have the same MPC hub in red and they say they made it stiffer so I assume it is closer to a Black Magic hub than RW Evolution. Atom has their own hub. Based on this info, what I could find in stock, and prices, I purchased Atom Boom XF and Red Magic XF. I tested them at the same time with left/right skates. As I recall, I was happy with both, but the atom felt a little stiffer and I preferred the grippier Red Magic. I also found the Atom Boom had visible wear while the Red Magic were still like new after my test chasing bikes.

FYI, in the past I recall seeing Francisco of MPC skate with a mix of RW Evolution and Black Magic. This year at NY 100K, it looked to me like his wheels had a different hub - I guessed this must have been a new MPC prototype, but maybe I just didn't get a close enough look and I'm totally wrong.

Going back to the original question of wheels for A2A if wet (it's looking dry now!), I'd agree with stealthsports and niko. If Boom are an option, then I've heard they are nearly as fast as G13 but work very well in the rain. My testing which showed faster wear may indicate why you get grip in the rain. This difference makes no sense to me since the urethane is supposedly identical to the other MPC poured wheels. I thought the only difference was supposed to be the hub. If your options are limited to MPC, then the RW Evolution makes sense, though I suspect you might be happiest with mixing in some Black Magic in the middle for more roll. As stealthsports mentioned, MPC hold their own in the rain. Just don't do what I did last year and go with G13 F0 and hope for dry pavement. I called it quits at stone mountain after slipping around for too many of the 70 miles.
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Old October 22nd, 2015, 04:12 AM   #8
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Too late to matter now, but for the record, I was on Black Magic XF's for the 49 in the rain last year and I wouldn't hesitate to go with them again as a wet/dry compromise. They seem to slip predictably enough that going 80-90% of my marathon pace on the flat felt comfortable, and that's about what I'd do in the dry anyway. But try to pick up the pace or push hard on the uphills and it feels like I soon reach a point where more effort just results in more slippage instead of more speed.

I also used the Road War Evos in a rainy local half marathon earlier this year, and I couldn't tell much difference between them. But in a short race, I was definitely limited by (lack of) grip. Pure rain wheels would've been a better choice on that occasion.
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