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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old May 18th, 2019, 02:45 PM   #1
fierocious1
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Default nothing wrong with shimming

DA45s. Or removing thickness between the plate and the cushion.
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Old May 18th, 2019, 04:02 PM   #2
Dec8rSk8r
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Default nope

I have had to cut cushions down to get them to fit.
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Old May 19th, 2019, 12:27 AM   #3
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Well, that depends, eventually you'll cause the yoke to not sit evenly on the cushions.

Arguably this is some of the reason why the change on steering happens.

I always just try to get it to sit flat.
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Old May 19th, 2019, 06:19 PM   #4
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The amount of shimming that I do is minute. No issues with skates sitting flat. But can change the attitude especially if skating a long frame vs a short frame or if you are skating lower speeds vs high speeds. Then change the duro
of cushions as needed. Usually, changes are easier to do when slowing down response than to speed it up. If there were a way to readily change pivot angle easily other than shimming, I would go that route, but there isn't and it really works for a personal tune on plate/response tuning. But it doesn't work on more verticle KP designs because of trucks getting jacked out of the pivot cups.

Thought I would start something in here since it is too quiet for some people.....
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Old May 20th, 2019, 12:05 AM   #5
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Shimming is all and only about the pivot pin.
SA or DA if the hanger isn't parallel to the plate the pivot pin will not work or move properly in it's cup.
Adjustable pivot pins are great, unless the adjustment they offer isn't enough, for example I run cones top and bottom, the cones are shorter than barrels, so I use 1/2 and 1 mm plastic shims to get the hanger closer to parallel with the plate and the adjustable pivot pin can make an exact placement.
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Old May 20th, 2019, 07:38 AM   #6
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Changing the height of the plate side cushion will make differences to how the plate steers. This is because of the way the compression starts to be applied to the truck yoke by the plate side cushion.

Personally think this has a lot less to do with the pivot pin and more to do with the truck yoke ange vs the plate. By adding or removing height of the plate side cushion you will make the yoke sit either dead flat on the cushion and be on the same angle as the kingpin.

Decreased height will effectively reduce the kingpin angle. As well as make a small gap between the kingpin and the ivor pin, which changes the room/resistance there and doesnt allow the truck to turn as much.

When you increase the height over the point of where the yoke sits flat on a cushion it will effectively increase the angle the yoke sits on because it will begin to tilt the other way on the kingpin compared to a decreased height. Additionally there will be slightly more room on the other side of the truck yoke this way. This will allow the truck to twist more on the assembly as well. So the steering for given plate lean will increase.

This is considering you aren't cranking cushions WAY down which would practically negate any shimmying effect one would do. I know you don't, just saying if someone did, their results wouldn't be the same as yours.

Pivot angle is barely a difference when you consider the other conditions you are changing in a plate assembly when shimming cushion being up or down.

The other thing I would guess is after you get past a certain amount of plate lean the plates will turn more like a unchanged cushion height(where unchanged means level and yoke is perpendicular to the kingpin). I don't know how much lean that would take before they started to turn the same though.
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Old May 22nd, 2019, 02:26 PM   #7
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Mort, honey, calm down, We can see the smoke coming out of your ears from NH.

That first link is great.

https://www.skates.com/Roller-Skate-...s-s/244490.htm

Half way down the page they give you a choice of all the HANGERS Sure Grip offers, and some after market one's also.

Actually, the OP isn't discussing anything here, you are, and I'm pointing out the actual use for spacers on the King Pin, which is to make micro-adjustments of the pivot pin, otherwise this would be just another non-sense thread.
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Old May 22nd, 2019, 10:41 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ursle View Post
Mort, honey, calm down, We can see the smoke coming out of your ears from NH.

That first link is great.

https://www.skates.com/Roller-Skate-...s-s/244490.htm

Half way down the page they give you a choice of all the HANGERS Sure Grip offers, and some after market one's also.

Actually, the OP isn't discussing anything here, you are, and I'm pointing out the actual use for spacers on the King Pin, which is to make micro-adjustments of the pivot pin, otherwise this would be just another non-sense thread.

The only one here confused is you buddy. No smoke lol you really think I care much what you think? I'm at least helping the blind(you) see you are wrong. The only frustration is that you cant see you are. Which is more entertaining than anything.

Further down the page is a listing for a "hanger" which is not a truck. Its for plates that have a baseplate>hanger>truck. I'm sure you understand this, but want to argue for the sake of arguing for whatever reason.

Correct geometry of a skate plate will have the pivot pin seated center in the pivot cup, just touching, and the truck yoke sitting centered and perpendicular to the kingpin. By shimming the plate side cushions height up or down you get a change in the way the cushions interact with the truck yoke.

On da45 plates the change in pivot on location iin the cupis extremely small, and has no effect here. On lower kingpin angles it makes a much larger difference, and you almost cant run a different cushion height than what the plate is designed for. Like more than 1mm either way and it's not going to sit correctly , adjustable pin or not.

Maybe he will show pictures so you can catch up to reality. His plate has no "hangers" it's a baseplate, kingpins and trucks. Sorry for your misinformation bro.
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Old June 6th, 2019, 12:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
The only one here confused is you buddy. No smoke lol you really think I care much what you think? I'm at least helping the blind(you) see you are wrong. The only frustration is that you cant see you are. Which is more entertaining than anything.

Further down the page is a listing for a "hanger" which is not a truck. Its for plates that have a baseplate>hanger>truck. I'm sure you understand this, but want to argue for the sake of arguing for whatever reason.

Correct geometry of a skate plate will have the pivot pin seated center in the pivot cup, just touching, and the truck yoke sitting centered and perpendicular to the kingpin. By shimming the plate side cushions height up or down you get a change in the way the cushions interact with the truck yoke.

On da45 plates the change in pivot on location iin the cupis extremely small, and has no effect here. On lower kingpin angles it makes a much larger difference, and you almost cant run a different cushion height than what the plate is designed for. Like more than 1mm either way and it's not going to sit correctly , adjustable pin or not.

Maybe he will show pictures so you can catch up to reality. His plate has no "hangers" it's a baseplate, kingpins and trucks. Sorry for your misinformation bro.
Mort I have to hand it to you bud. You do understand.no telling how many times I have explained it and most never do get it.
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Old June 7th, 2019, 04:52 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by fierocious1 View Post
Mort I have to hand it to you bud. You do understand.no telling how many times I have explained it and most never do get it.
You mean to say I understand ? Or don't? Lol now I am confused. **edit** sorry it was jumbled up and I just got off work lol, I think I follow now.

I first noticed this anomaly when I fixed up the geometry on a set of vanilla plates. I didnt really change the compression much and at the time didnt even use grease on his skates. But the way the truck yoke made contact with the cushions changed, so it changed the way the trucks liked to steer. This was mainly to do with the way the truck NJ was trying to compress the cushions, and the cushions weren't allowing the truck to turn in the way they should have.

Even though the truck was now in better contact with the cushions, which I figured would feel MORE stable, it wasn't to him. It felt squirrelly as all get out. Because it could turn like intended lol. I also put flat washers on instead of cupped retainers.

It's funny how small a difference it takes to change the way the truck behaves. Makes me kinda want to experiment with angling cushions for more extreme mods.
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Old June 7th, 2019, 01:02 PM   #11
fierocious1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
You mean to say I understand ? Or don't? Lol now I am confused. **edit** sorry it was jumbled up and I just got off work lol, I think I follow now.

I first noticed this anomaly when I fixed up the geometry on a set of vanilla plates. I didnt really change the compression much and at the time didnt even use grease on his skates. But the way the truck yoke made contact with the cushions changed, so it changed the way the trucks liked to steer. This was mainly to do with the way the truck NJ was trying to compress the cushions, and the cushions weren't allowing the truck to turn in the way they should have.

Even though the truck was now in better contact with the cushions, which I figured would feel MORE stable, it wasn't to him. It felt squirrelly as all get out. Because it could turn like intended lol. I also put flat washers on instead of cupped retainers.

It's funny how small a difference it takes to change the way the truck behaves. Makes me kinda want to experiment with angling cushions for more extreme mods.
Yep you understand. Its not extreme amounts of thickness that makes a difference. I haven't had true 45 degee trucks to work with but it would produce the same results. I like my setup so really no need to change anything. Besides way too busy now to experiment with making new plates.
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