S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Quad Roller Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 29th, 2019, 07:28 AM   #1
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 8,015
Default You CAN go home again

Where to start. Tuesday I guess. i was out for a bike ride. I had just completed the short section where I ride the street, and was getting back on the sidewalk as I headed to the Leon Creek Bike Trail. The route from the street up the wheel chair entry to the sidewalk is convoluted. So, as usual, I took a straight route that takes me over some gravel. then grass, then the side walk. Well, I guess I must have twitched at just the wrong moment, and my front wheel washed out in front of me and I went down on my left side. One of the nice things about recumbent bikes is, falls are usually a lot less damaging then falling from a diamond frame. Unfortunately, I put my left foot down and tweaked my bad ankle pretty good. I dug up my lace up boot ankle brace and have been wearing it. The ankle is better, but still VERY sprained.

Now Thursday comes along and the neighbor asked me on a ride. I usually don't ride on Thursday because I skate in the evening. But I went anyway, thinking with the bad ankle, I won't skate anyway. The ride goes well, and I don't lose tire pressure in my tubeless tires like I did the other day. I don't feel like skipping skating, and had just seen my old Rebel/Magnum skates. So I thought, why not put on the other boot ankle brace, I have two, and use the Rebel skates. At least I can go and chat with my rink friends, even if I don't skate much. But first, I needed to do a bit of skate maintenance. The last time those skates were skated was by a friend who did what I told him not to. He tried to tune the skate by tightening down the cushions. So I had to undo all the kingpin nuts to loose, jiggle things up and re-tighten. That went OK except for the one nut that did not come out, but undid the kingpin itself. So, found some tools, set all the cushion nuts properly and went to the rink.

So I get there, the 2nd week after the HATED DJ got booted. Nice crowd. An abundance of lovely ladies. Nice. I put the skates on and try them out. A little too loose. A bit wiggly. Off to make an adjustment, then back to skating. At this point, I had a combo of weird. Being on skates I haven't been on for some time, and not really knowing how bad my ankle is. Remember I have already had it in the boot brace a couple days. Don't really have a clue how it will take to skating. The action felt a little weird. Like it was turning in more abruptly than my Invader. Oh, and did I forget to mention, this skate had Purple cushions, not my usual yellow.

The rink music is now by request. Lotta folks into cRap music. Whaddaya gonna do? I don't mind as much, as at least it is not some lame-o DJ shoving it down my throat. And anyways, I have my bluetooth headphones. So I dial up a good tune and skate. With the ankle support from the brace, I am going to be able to skate as much as I might want to. Only near the end, did it start getting irritated, but my quads were tired by then anyway.

OH SNAP. Well, how do you do? The snap of purple cushions. I had forgotten all about it. Yellow cushions don't snap back the way purples do. I remember waaaay back in my DA45 skating, I had always surmised that skating a DA45 is a better, more fun way, of learning to skate well. What I mean is, you learn the turning power of the skate better. Then, as you progress as a skater, you learn to make sharper turns not just by leaning on the skate, but by lifting axles. This was a theory I had proven to myself about a year and a half ago when I forgot my skates, but was able to still turn well with rentals. I am also coming to the conclusion that my yellow cushions don't really turn better than the purples, but it is just a bit easier to do.

As for the "you CAN go home again", I had a GREAT time, bad ankle and all, skating my Rebel/Magnums with the purple cushions. I'd turn and get a kick on them snapping back like I haven't felt in YEARS. One little maneuver in particular was fun. As I enter a turn backwards, I progressively tighten the turn until the skates want to pop around to forward. I then lift both front axles and pivot on my heels. The purple cushions felt great doing this. It gave it power steering. The energy of the cushions really popped me around with more energy, not coming from me, but from the skate.

So, if any of you DA45 guys wanna have a bit of fun, dust off a set of purples and take them for a spin. I think I am going to skate these for a while.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2019, 02:34 AM   #2
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,276
Default Glad you had a good time, heal quickly..

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
Where to start. Tuesday I guess. i was out for a bike ride. I had just completed the short section where I ride the street, and was getting back on the sidewalk as I headed to the Leon Creek Bike Trail. The route from the street up the wheel chair entry to the sidewalk is convoluted. So, as usual, I took a straight route that takes me over some gravel. then grass, then the side walk. Well, I guess I must have twitched at just the wrong moment, and my front wheel washed out in front of me and I went down on my left side. One of the nice things about recumbent bikes is, falls are usually a lot less damaging then falling from a diamond frame. Unfortunately, I put my left foot down and tweaked my bad ankle pretty good. I dug up my lace up boot ankle brace and have been wearing it. The ankle is better, but still VERY sprained.

Now Thursday comes along and the neighbor asked me on a ride. I usually don't ride on Thursday because I skate in the evening. But I went anyway, thinking with the bad ankle, I won't skate anyway. The ride goes well, and I don't lose tire pressure in my tubeless tires like I did the other day. I don't feel like skipping skating, and had just seen my old Rebel/Magnum skates. So I thought, why not put on the other boot ankle brace, I have two, and use the Rebel skates. At least I can go and chat with my rink friends, even if I don't skate much. But first, I needed to do a bit of skate maintenance. The last time those skates were skated was by a friend who did what I told him not to. He tried to tune the skate by tightening down the cushions. So I had to undo all the kingpin nuts to loose, jiggle things up and re-tighten. That went OK except for the one nut that did not come out, but undid the kingpin itself. So, found some tools, set all the cushion nuts properly and went to the rink.

So I get there, the 2nd week after the HATED DJ got booted. Nice crowd. An abundance of lovely ladies. Nice. I put the skates on and try them out. A little too loose. A bit wiggly. Off to make an adjustment, then back to skating. At this point, I had a combo of weird. Being on skates I haven't been on for some time, and not really knowing how bad my ankle is. Remember I have already had it in the boot brace a couple days. Don't really have a clue how it will take to skating. The action felt a little weird. Like it was turning in more abruptly than my Invader. Oh, and did I forget to mention, this skate had Purple cushions, not my usual yellow.

The rink music is now by request. Lotta folks into cRap music. Whaddaya gonna do? I don't mind as much, as at least it is not some lame-o DJ shoving it down my throat. And anyways, I have my bluetooth headphones. So I dial up a good tune and skate. With the ankle support from the brace, I am going to be able to skate as much as I might want to. Only near the end, did it start getting irritated, but my quads were tired by then anyway.

OH SNAP. Well, how do you do? The snap of purple cushions. I had forgotten all about it. Yellow cushions don't snap back the way purples do. I remember waaaay back in my DA45 skating, I had always surmised that skating a DA45 is a better, more fun way, of learning to skate well. What I mean is, you learn the turning power of the skate better. Then, as you progress as a skater, you learn to make sharper turns not just by leaning on the skate, but by lifting axles. This was a theory I had proven to myself about a year and a half ago when I forgot my skates, but was able to still turn well with rentals. I am also coming to the conclusion that my yellow cushions don't really turn better than the purples, but it is just a bit easier to do.

As for the "you CAN go home again", I had a GREAT time, bad ankle and all, skating my Rebel/Magnums with the purple cushions. I'd turn and get a kick on them snapping back like I haven't felt in YEARS. One little maneuver in particular was fun. As I enter a turn backwards, I progressively tighten the turn until the skates want to pop around to forward. I then lift both front axles and pivot on my heels. The purple cushions felt great doing this. It gave it power steering. The energy of the cushions really popped me around with more energy, not coming from me, but from the skate.

So, if any of you DA45 guys wanna have a bit of fun, dust off a set of purples and take them for a spin. I think I am going to skate these for a while.
DA45 is all I skate.
__________________
Dims = promoting and carrying out baby deaths. Collusion, whistleblower, fakepeachment,fake reality and you're a racist!
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2019, 05:30 PM   #3
wired
Member
 
wired's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: KY USA
Posts: 2,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
So, if any of you DA45 guys wanna have a bit of fun, dust off a set of purples and take them for a spin.
If you really want to have some fun do the work and get to where you can really use blues. Your ankles have more "snap" than any little bits of urethane will ever have.

.
__________________
Common wisdom is anything but...
wired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2019, 05:55 AM   #4
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 8,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wired View Post
If you really want to have some fun do the work and get to where you can really use blues. Your ankles have more "snap" than any little bits of urethane will ever have.

.
Blues are no holy grail of DA45's. Blues exist so 98 pound skaters can get full turning. At over 200 lbs, I don't need blues. If fact, I don't need yellows. I get full turning from purples, and I enjoyed the snap back. I skated the yellows today. Turned just like the purples, just had less energy returning to center. I enjoyed the purples more. I think I'll try and dig up my red gummies and give them a whirl.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2019, 06:50 PM   #5
Doc Sk8
Yankee Catfish
 
Doc Sk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Big hill on Mars
Posts: 12,154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
Blues are no holy grail of DA45's. Blues exist so 98 pound skaters can get full turning.



So, me, all the way up to 240 @ one point didn't need blues?? Horse crap. It's all I run on my DA45s, be it Avengers, Magnums, Dance Imperial lites or Royals.



At over 200 lbs, I don't need blues. If fact, I don't need yellows. I get full turning from purples, and I enjoyed the snap back. I skated the yellows today. Turned just like the purples, just had less energy returning to center. I enjoyed the purples more. I think I'll try and dig up my red gummies and give them a whirl.

Well I guess if you are incapable of centering your action w/o the cushions helping that is your loss. You do realize that every bit of energy you get back in the rebound of the action does not equal the amount of energy you put in. Hysteresis never fails to rob ya of the energy put in.


So do what ya want, that's you. Just don't expound about what you do as if the whole world should do it your way. I don't and won't. All blues w/ NO preload is the way I run my DA45 actions.
__________________
"The difference between good skates and great skates comes from knowing where to get the numbers."
Doc Sk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2019, 05:51 AM   #6
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 8,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8 View Post
Well I guess if you are incapable of centering your action w/o the cushions helping that is your loss. You do realize that every bit of energy you get back in the rebound of the action does not equal the amount of energy you put in. Hysteresis never fails to rob ya of the energy put in.


If you want to pony up the funds to get an orthopedic surgeon to fix my left ankle, PM me, we'll set it up.

So do what ya want, that's you. Just don't expound about what you do as if the whole world should do it your way. I don't and won't. All blues w/ NO preload is the way I run my DA45 actions.


Really? I have your permission to do what I want? Wow. Cool.

Tell me, what do you think Sure Grip would say when asked why they have cushions of different hardness. Likely they would answer, to accommodate people of different weights and different preferences.
Congrats for being Wired's tool. This is exactly what he wanted. Shame on you.

I bet, at your weight, if you skated a yellow cushion and blue cushion back to back, not knowing which was which, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. For me, the difference between yellow and purple is that with the yellow, you can easily create some turning with just a bit of pressure, where you would need more pressure with a purple. And blue, even less pressure. You seem to like that. I had FUN skating my purples. I am sorry if that destroys your fragile little world.

Congrats again for being Wired's little tool. He'll be sending you a fruit basket and a stripper Monday or Tuesday.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2019, 07:57 AM   #7
wired
Member
 
wired's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: KY USA
Posts: 2,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
Congrats for being Wired's tool. This is exactly what he wanted. Shame on you.

I bet, at your weight, if you skated a yellow cushion and blue cushion back to back, not knowing which was which, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. For me, the difference between yellow and purple is that with the yellow, you can easily create some turning with just a bit of pressure, where you would need more pressure with a purple. And blue, even less pressure. You seem to like that. I had FUN skating my purples. I am sorry if that destroys your fragile little world.

Congrats again for being Wired's little tool. He'll be sending you a fruit basket and a stripper Monday or Tuesday.
Oh really? And your basis for this bucket of foolishness?

Different cushions exist so one can tune their skates to their tastes and abilities. It takes quite a bit of time and effort to learn to be able to exploit the full capabilities of a skate's action. For most it takes months working their way down in durometer.

The skaters I know that have taken the time seldom go back to harder cushions. They know there is more "snap" in their ankles than any bit of energy robbing urethane.

Skate what you want but your assertion that "Blues exist so 98 pound skaters can get full turning" is inaccurate and rude. If you want to call names please keep it in the off topic section.


.
__________________
Common wisdom is anything but...
wired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2019, 07:10 PM   #8
Doc Sk8
Yankee Catfish
 
Doc Sk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Big hill on Mars
Posts: 12,154
Default You sir, are confused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
Congrats for being Wired's tool. This is exactly what he wanted. Shame on you.

Obviously, you are in dire need of a lesson or two.

Lesson 1) I am not a tool. Therefore I cannot be wired or any other individual's "tool".

Lesson 2) What wired may or may not have "wanted" was irrelevant to my response. As long as you have been on Skate Log, you should know that by now.

I bet, at your weight, if you skated a yellow cushion and blue cushion back to back, not knowing which was which, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

@ all the different personal weights I have sk8ed over the last 10 years, I have had no trouble telling what was what in my action. I suspect even w/ a double blind test I would have no trouble telling them apart.

For me, the difference between yellow and purple is that with the yellow, you can easily create some turning with just a bit of pressure, where you would need more pressure with a purple. And blue, even less pressure.

I suspect that would apply to anyone that knows how to tune their sk8s..but hey, what do I know?? Oh wait, ALL my DA45 actions run @ zero lash. Can't loosen them any more and will NOT make them tighter

You seem to like that. I had FUN skating my purples. I am sorry if that destroys your fragile little world.

Whatever you care to ride does not "destroy" anything in my world, which is far far from fragile, BTW. Quite frankly, what you like to ride bothers me not one whit. My annoyance was you spouting some moronic formula for body weight vs cushion durometer. Ain't no such thing. If Roll Line was correct I would have the clear yellows (hardest) in my sk8s. Wrong.... I have the clear greens (softest). So the manufacturer says I need the hardest for my weight. I say I need the softest because that is what I roll.

Congrats again for being Wired's little tool. He'll be sending you a fruit basket and a stripper Monday or Tuesday.
Sadly the only "tool" in this discussion is the one that started name calling. Maybe the issue here is my response crushed your little world view??
__________________
"The difference between good skates and great skates comes from knowing where to get the numbers."
Doc Sk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2019, 03:22 PM   #9
ursle
Street Skater
 
ursle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 4,137
Default

Before this discussion goes any further down the rabbit hole.

Let's throw the arius out of this discussion.

Beginning skaters use harder cushions, advanced skaters use softer cushions, advanced skaters have taught their body (core) to balance better, hard cushions are like bicycle training wheels, softer cushions require less force to compress the cushion, better balance from hours of skating allow the skater to use less force turning, which translates into more fun, quicker turns and when skating fast, a pure form of advanced skating.(because of the balance required with soft cushions that don't limit the action, hard cushions are something to lean into and push against, soft cushions simply compress, the skater has to lean much further into them, and that comes with experience)

Top speed with soft cushions may be lower than with hard cushions because of the loss of energy to the cushions, if you want to skate at top speed get on inlines.

Cushions don't snap back, they absorbe energy both compressing and decompressing, hard cushions don't compress as much, so they decompress faster, but they aren't snapping energy into the turn, they are not a perpetual motion machine, they are simply less fun.
__________________
Liberal authority comes from rational assessment of true facts followed by correct implementation of useful measures that result in a better outcome.
ursle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2019, 05:09 PM   #10
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,616
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
Before this discussion goes any further down the rabbit hole.

Let's throw the arius out of this discussion.

Beginning skaters use harder cushions, advanced skaters use softer cushions, advanced skaters have taught their body (core) to balance better, hard cushions are like bicycle training wheels, softer cushions require less force to compress the cushion, better balance from hours of skating allow the skater to use less force turning, which translates into more fun, quicker turns and when skating fast, a pure form of advanced skating.(because of the balance required with soft cushions that don't limit the action, hard cushions are something to lean into and push against, soft cushions simply compressDeform the skater has to lean much further into them, and that comes with experience)

Top speed with soft cushions may be lower than with hard cushions because of the loss of energy to the cushions, if you want to skate at top speed get on inlines.

Cushions don't snap back, they absorbe energy both compressing and decompressing, hard cushions don't compress as much, so they decompress faster, but they aren't snapping energy into the turn, they are not a perpetual motion machine, they are simply less fun.
Firmness of a cushion needed depends on many things, not just skill level though.

If one needs more turning they may need one or more of the following: better form, more compliant cushions, suspension modifications such as increased cushion heights, flat washers instead of deep dished or shallow dished cups, firmer boots/new boots if a skate boot is I'll fitting or if the soles have become super soft, lubricated suspension, a shorter wheelbase, or more kingpin angle with the same wheelbase, a different wheel profile and lip design. There may be more than that but those are what stand out at the moment.

Firmer cushions have a greater tendency to reset to neutral at higher speeds, this is useful for high agility, high speed, hard skating where more resistance creates stability in high exertion situations, be it low speed and acceleration to high speed, or high speed skating with max agility where the support is welcomed. Also, when 1 foot slaloming, if you can compress a given cushion without issues or fatigue the extra resilience is very nice, it's not that it springs you onto the other edge. But it simply feels better. This is my take on SG yellows vs SG purples if both are greased and setup correctly.

I haven't bothered to go down from 80A in my arius plates, probably could just haven't bothered yet. But in those plates, cushion firmness is not what makes the plate stable. And They will carve a tighter circle than I have grip for at virtually any floor at any speed so, switching would likely not give me any advantage whatsoever

Going fast is fun in quads, and when you can hang with the inliners while in quads. Why switch? We already get yelled at for going fast, why would I want to use an innately faster skate so I can put forth even less effort? Lol. Also why give up that ultra loud hockey stop that can turn someone into a fainting goat??

Outdoors though.... inlines are king, but quads are still fun
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2019, 12:19 AM   #11
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 8,015
Default

Silly putty. Jam skaters, of which I am not one, are arguably some of the best and most advanced skaters going. They use 10 degree plates and hard cushions. So there goes the soft cushion theory.

Use what you like, and toss out idiot opinions.

If hard cushions work for ya, run em.

If soft cushions feel better, use em.

It's roller skating folks, not rocket science.

If there is one thing I have learned in skating, you can never predict what an individual skater will or won't like. Best you can do is describe the differences in behavior of different setups, and let the skater choose which way to go. That's the bottom line.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2019, 01:57 AM   #12
dvw
Secretary of Skate
 
dvw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hendersonville, TN
Posts: 4,411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
Firmer cushions have a greater tendency to reset to neutral at higher speeds,

They do, but is that desirable? I run soft cushions and my plates return to neutral when I tell them to. There's nothing restricting or affecting that. After all, who's in charge, my skates or me?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
I haven't bothered to go down from 80A ... They will carve a tighter circle than I have grip for...

Because your suspension runs out of compliance, and the wheel lifts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
Silly putty. Jam skaters, of which I am not one, are arguably some of the best and most advanced skaters going. They use 10 degree plates and hard cushions. So there goes the soft cushion theory.

While jam skaters are generally very skilled at what they do, they don't "skate" in the conventional sense, so not really a fair comparison. They typically run long plates, soft wheels, hard suspensions because the type of static dance moves they do benefits from it.
__________________
Find some roller derby girls. Don't try to romance them! That don't end well. okie 10/12/2011
Royals FTW! When only the shiny will do... Doc Sk8 05/19/2012
dvw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2019, 05:13 AM   #13
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 8,015
Default

Purples have more snapback

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post
They do, but is that desirable? I run soft cushions and my plates return to neutral when I tell them to. There's nothing restricting or affecting that. After all, who's in charge, my skates or me?

Skates are never "in charge", but this is about different cushions and how they respond. And to answer the question you floated is, yes, it is desirable.... to me. The guy who started the thread. Not saying anyone else needs to like it.


Because your suspension runs out of compliance, and the wheel lifts.

Here is another good point. I USE that end of compliance. I rather get a kick out of playing with the end of compliance. And after not having it happen sooner, I liked it happening sooner. It was different. Fun.

While jam skaters are generally very skilled at what they do, they don't "skate" in the conventional sense, so not really a fair comparison. They typically run long plates, soft wheels, hard suspensions because the type of static dance moves they do benefits from it.
Kind of splitting hairs here. I would say, and have long said, that, depending on the skater of course, jam skaters do stuff that is not skating. But the skating stuff they do do is pretty impressive. I forget the guys' name, but there was an extraordinary guy I'd see from time to time around LA. Fantastic skater. I know a guy now who is a very good jam skater.

And then you actually back my point up with, "long plates, soft wheels, hard suspensions because the type of static dance moves they do benefits from it." Their setup is used because it makes what they do easier. Purples helped my get to the loss of compliance quicker, which I liked.

Having developed single axle skills over the years, I don't have to depend on DA45 for turning. I like the turning (still), I use it, but it is not the only thing *I* do as a skater. So yeah. I liked the purples. Might like some reds too.
The end of compliance will happen faster than the purples. I might like playing with that too.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 21st, 2019, 09:17 AM   #14
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,616
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post
They do, but is that desirable? I run soft cushions and my plates return to neutral when I tell them to. There's nothing restricting or affecting that. After all, who's in charge, my skates or me?






Because your suspension runs out of compliance, and the wheel lifts.

if anything wheels lift due to the axles being crap, not the suspension being too resistant for the turns I make.I can easily actuate my trucks with a gentle push of my thumb, but when I lean over the outer bearing isnt supported like it should be. Recently though, I got this fixed however the new axles I have installed are even smaller OD, so now its 7.88 instead of 7.94 , while the wheels are held more level they now have more wiggle room >.> grip is very slightly better now until the traction breaks and the wheels vibrate in a slide.



While jam skaters are generally very skilled at what they do, they don't "skate" in the conventional sense, so not really a fair comparison. They typically run long plates, soft wheels, hard suspensions because the type of static dance moves they do benefits from it.
I'd agree that by my sense of "skating" jam skaters cant touch the group I roll with around the floor.

Shuffle skaters have better at speed skill, while jam skaters have better low speed moves as agility goes.

Then you have people like us that do everything, and the skill diversity makes us better than either of them 99.9% of the time. Always good to have a big bag of tricks not just 1 trump card


Anywho back to suspensions, if I skated slower and need more compliant suspension to make a turn, maybe.. but I skate most of my laps on the far outside where I dont need to make a bunch of ultra tight circles. My grip isn't diminished for the speed and radius I am skating 99.9% of the time. If it was then when I take out my stabilization pins in my gen1 arius trucks , I'd gain a bit of grip when cornering, but I dont.

This may change if I ever get better axles where they dont allow as much wheel deflection, then the suspension compliance may begin to factor in. As of now, mine does not. Also the arius doesnt exactly behave the same as a traditional kingpin plate when the cushions are stiffer either.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2019, 09:08 PM   #15
BigFoot
Senior Member
 
BigFoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
Beginning skaters use harder cushions, advanced skaters use softer cushions
I did the opposite. I started on soft and medium cushions, then went to hard cushions as my skating improved. There were a couple of reasons for it. I liked the firm power transfer, stability, more solid hockey stops, and no wobble at high speed. Ease of turning wasnít a problem because I turn the same way as when I skated on in-lines or ice skates, which, of course, donít have cushions Ė go back on your heal, lean, point toe where you want to go. Iím a DA10į red cushion guy now. I tried DA45 and hated them. Even with nylon, metal washers, wood (yes, wood) with red cushions. No dice. Too turny and unstable. It took tremendous concentration and effort to avoid the speed wobble, and that mainly required me to stay below 10-12 MPH. But I think Mr. Rufus got it right: use what you like. Whatever blows your skirt up.

BTW, totally off-topic, but is anyone else enjoying the NHL playoffs? Fastest game in sports, hand-to-hand combat, and awesome skating skills. It has it all. Iím pulling for the Columbus Blue Jackets. Three solid wins against Division leading Tampa Bay Lightning. Go Jackets!
BigFoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2019, 01:55 AM   #16
rufusprime99
Ninja Naked Mole Rat
 
rufusprime99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Antonio Tx
Posts: 8,015
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFoot View Post
I did the opposite. I started on soft and medium cushions, then went to hard cushions as my skating improved. There were a couple of reasons for it. I liked the firm power transfer, stability, more solid hockey stops, and no wobble at high speed. Ease of turning wasnít a problem because I turn the same way as when I skated on in-lines or ice skates, which, of course, donít have cushions Ė go back on your heal, lean, point toe where you want to go. Iím a DA10į red cushion guy now. I tried DA45 and hated them. Even with nylon, metal washers, wood (yes, wood) with red cushions. No dice. Too turny and unstable. It took tremendous concentration and effort to avoid the speed wobble, and that mainly required me to stay below 10-12 MPH. But I think Mr. Rufus got it right: use what you like. Whatever blows your skirt up.

BTW, totally off-topic, but is anyone else enjoying the NHL playoffs? Fastest game in sports, hand-to-hand combat, and awesome skating skills. It has it all. Iím pulling for the Columbus Blue Jackets. Three solid wins against Division leading Tampa Bay Lightning. Go Jackets!
Pointing the toe. Yep, I do that. In fact lifting axles, front or rear is a big part of my skating. And lifting one axle means being only on the other. And a stiffer cushion is helpful in those situations.

In the long and annoying saga of my bad knees and ankle, I stopped striding. Or ever being on ONE skate. Like, EVER. I sticky skate. Keep both feet down at all times. That is not to say I keep all four axles down though. I freak some people out. I catch them watching my feet. They never leave the ground, and a lot of my axle lifts are pretty subtle. I alternate using the turning power of DA45 and axle tricks almost 50/50. If *I* went to red cushions, I would need to do more axle stuff, as the DA45 turning would be diminished. But I could certainly get by. The question is, would I like the different dynamic of red cushions. Probably would for a while. And then I'd change back to a purple, or yellow.

As for hockey, never did get into it. I used to like basketball a lot, and I kind of wanted to get plugged into March Madness, but did not. Been bike riding a lot, and reading about bike riding a lot. At this rate, I may get into watching the tour de France.
__________________
Don't let people live in your head rent free. ~princessfluffhead~ BontQRL/InvaderDA45: Seba-FRX: Alkali CA9
rufusprime99 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2019, 05:38 PM   #17
wired
Member
 
wired's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: KY USA
Posts: 2,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
I stopped striding. Or ever being on ONE skate. Like, EVER.
Kinda hard to develop much power that way...

.
__________________
Common wisdom is anything but...
wired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2019, 05:36 PM   #18
wired
Member
 
wired's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: KY USA
Posts: 2,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFoot View Post
... no wobble at high speed.
If you have wobbles at high speed you don't have the brain/muscle training that allows full use of soft cushions. A LOT of people hate on soft cushions for this exact reason.

You can't just put soft cushions on and skate and expect good results.

It usually goes like this:

* Find the point with a cushion combination (doesn't matter, same top and bottom, different top and bottom, cupped or flat retainers, grease whatever...) where you wobble at speed. Tighten the action to where the wobble just stops and skate.

* Next week loosen the action until the wobble starts and then tighten a bit till it just stops. Each time you should be able to control the wobble while the skate has more action.

* Repeat the above working your way to softer cushions.You never want the cushions so tight they bulge or so loose the truck is not controlled by the cushions. With some people you might need to use a split cushion configuration to achieve this. Usually harder on top and softer on the bottom before having the same (softer) hardness top and bottom. That is what I had to do back in my Roll Line days.

This is not a short or fast process. For most it takes months. If you do this on a low action plate you will likely have to repeat at least part of it if you go to a higher action plate like a DA45. Most would rather say "that doesn't work for me" or "I tried it and it sucked" than do the work. I hear that all the time but seldom from someone that took the time to train themselves. Usually it's the opposite, "I finally took the time and WOW!"

The advantages of soft cushions are not only better maneuverability but increased traction in turns since you put more longitudinal urethane on the floor faster. In many cases you can use a harder wheel with softer cushions since there won't be as much slippage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFoot View Post
But I think Mr. Rufus got it right: use what you like. Whatever blows your skirt up.
That is good as far as it goes but unless you share and understand other ideas there is little point of a forum for discussion.

.
__________________
Common wisdom is anything but...

Last edited by wired; April 16th, 2019 at 06:45 PM.
wired is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.