A few adjustments, new bearings/wheels and wow!

[zebra1922]

I fitted a Falcon F-16 plate to my Ridell 120 boot a few weeks back, and it bothered me that when I looked at other peoples skates at the rink and in pictures, the rear wheels were further back than mine.Whilst trying to get the front wheels just ahead of the ball of my foot I'd mounted the whole plate forward.

Long story short, 6 new holes and 1 inch backward later, new plate mount. Tried it out tonight with some new wheels (Bones Art Elite 101A) and new bearings (Qube 8 ball) and wow! What a difference.

Probably all the different parts had an effect. Balance felt so much better (well, after I stopped falling forwards instead of backwards!), and those bearings are brilliant, light push and I roll right down the rink. Harder wheels helped with the manourvering and I didn't notice any adverse slipping when accelerating hard - brilliant.

Confidence was low due to a knee injury, but after 30 minutes I was back to my level (admittedly not very high) but everything felt smoother and more comfortable. Can't wait for my next session to try a couple of new things (left backwards 3 turns - not yet got the hand of the inside or outside edge so they will top the list for now).

[jackbkwikn]

And now your just like everyone else.
Should of left it forward..

[zebra1922]

Originally Posted by jackbkwikn

And now your just like everyone else.
Should of left it forward..

But is there a reason everyone else has the rear axle under the heel? For me it improved my balance, before the change I was falling backwards too much.

For a session/basic art skater, why would I want a short forward mount?

(And I didn’t fill the old holes so can move it forward again any time)

[wired]

Originally Posted by zebra1922

But is there a reason everyone else has the rear axle under the heel?

If you look closer you will see that their plate goes almost from toe to heel. It's the only way most of those plates could be mounted.

OTOH if your plate is shorter than the length of the boot sole it more important that you locate the front axle in a bio-mechanically optimal location.

Originally Posted by zebra1922

For me it improved my balance, before the change I was falling backwards too much.

That is because you have bad form.

There are no extra points awarded for standing up straight when on skates. Quad skates work better with more weight on the front wheels than back which dictates a slightly forward leaning athletic stance. Kind of like running. You can't run well on your heels.

Originally Posted by zebra1922

For a session/basic art skater, why would I want a short forward mount?

Because it's more fun. A shorter wheelbase gives more tuning ability, think Mini vs F150.

If you want to have a plate pushed back all the way to the heel you likely need a longer plate. However there are few here that have found that as fun. As Doc says "you can learn to skate anything". In my opinion there is much fun to be found with a shorter, more responsive, wheelbase. There is a mechanical reason that front axle placement should be where you can get maximum big toe push. Falling down a few times until you get the hang of how your body was designed to function isn't the worst thing in the world.

This forum use to be more thoughtful. For an example a wonderful post by Gle8 Show your work. Worth a read.

Above all have fun!


.

[zebra1922]

Originally Posted by wired

If you look closer you will see that their plate goes almost from toe to heel. It's the only way most of those plates could be mounted.

Have looked closely, why do you think I changed my plate position?

I'm interested how you know what I'm seeing and whether I'm seeing a "Standard"mount with the wheels outside the pressure points. I'm definitely seeing the majority of skaters with rear wheels directly under the heel pressure point. I see a variety of forward wheel positions from agility mount to in front of the forward pressure point. Please don't make assumptions about what I'm looking at or seeing.

Originally Posted by wired

That is because you have bad form.

With the best will in the world, how do you know whether I have bad form or not without seeing me skate?

Originally Posted by wired

There are no extra points awarded for standing up straight when on skates. Quad skates work better with more weight on the front wheels than back which dictates a slightly forward leaning athletic stance. Kind of like running. You can't run well on your heels.

Now I've already indicated I have a short plate, and it was too far forward of both my heels and my toe. There is now a better balance with wheels more accurately located below the heel and ball of my foot

Originally Posted by wired

Because it's more fun. A shorter wheelbase gives more tuning ability, think Mini vs F150.

I know this, which is why I bought a relatively short plate in the first place. Why am I getting so much criticism and being treated like an idiot for highlighting how I've changed the position of my plate and am seeing better results?

Originally Posted by wired

If you want to have a plate pushed back all the way to the heel you likely need a longer plate.

Why - you can have a plate with the rear wheels under your heel and still have a shorter plate with the front under the ball of your foot. This is still a short plate to aid turning and dance moves.

Originally Posted by wired

This forum use to be more thoughtful. For an example a wonderful post by Gle8 Show your work. Worth a read.

I had a good read of this, my set up is pretty mochas advised. When I said I moved my rear wheels back, that was from a short forward mount to what he calls the agility mount. Still shorter than the standard amount giving me good manoeuvrability.

Originally Posted by wired

Above all have fun!
.

I try to, that was the point of my post. I changed a couple of things and found I had more fun. What is so wrong with that such that it appears attract criticism of my skating or what I've done?

I agree there are a zillion different ways to mount skates and a zillion different opinions which is best and I respect each and every one of them. I'm always happy to take suggestions but not so much on people making assumptions about my skating and what works for me.

But as you said, have fun.

[leshomes]

[jackbkwikn]

I disagree there's 2 ways to mount a plate."the right way and the wrong way".
What size boot and what size plate are we talking about anyway.

[zebra1922]

Size 11 (US) boot, size 7.0 falcon plate. Plate length 265mm, I can’t find the wheelbase chart but I think c. 168mm.

The new mount place is similar to D in the pics above, was more like C initially.

[jackbkwikn]

178.

[leshomes]

Originally Posted by zebra1922

Size 11 (US) boot, size 7.0 falcon plate. Plate length 265mm, I can’t find the wheelbase chart but I think c. 168mm.

The new mount place is similar to D in the pics above, was more like C initially.

There must be a huge difference in how they handle going from C to D. I’d fall back and crack my head on a D Mount.

[zebra1922]

Originally Posted by jackbkwikn

178.

Bigger than I thought. Still, I believe slightly shorter han would be used for a ‘standard’ mount (A - wheels behind rear pressure point, advance front pressure point) so in theory should give me more manouvreability. Seems to work in practise with the ‘agility’ mount position. I’ll see how it feels again at my next session on Friday but I was really happy with the new placement first time out.

[Mort]

F short plates.

"Turning" ... yet to see anyone out corner me even when I had a 193mm wheelbase on a size 10 vanilla freestyle. My foot is 283mm in length.

My current plate size is 186 IIRC. Its 1 size down from the original. What difference did it really make? Nothing other than the rear leverage point makes it easier to ride a wheelie, much like a forward mount will make skills like grapevine, spins and other toe work more difficult.

I prefer my rear axle centered up under my heel, it makes the pivoting feel natural, as if barefoot, so adjustment of pivoting from on foot to skates is near zero.

Most of my shoes have a small heel rise, but it's not enough to affect the balance aspect

Almost everyone I skate with are all on longer mounts. Essentially a forward mount with a closer to normal heel position. We adjusted our suspension to suit, aaaannnnddd All is well.

Imo if you need your plate to turn more, and you have to go to a short wheelbase to accomplish this.., maybe your skating form or athleticism is the problem?

Many times I've seen these "short forward" plates people roll and it tends to prevent them from really getting a good lean in, with not just their body, but the plate lean as well.

The primary factor in how a skater can turn is the skater, not some hack job bandaid fix of cutting down an inch of wheelbase for negligible results.

Just my thoughts. Lol

[zebra1922]

Originally Posted by leshomes

There must be a huge difference in how they handle going from C to D. I’d fall back and crack my head on a D Mount.

Interesting you’d fall back on a D mount, as I’d have thought this more likely on the C as your weight is behind the rear axle.

Just goes to show there is no right answer, just what works best for you.

[leshomes]

Originally Posted by zebra1922

Interesting you’d fall back on a D mount, as I’d have thought this more likely on the C as your weight is behind the rear axle.

Just goes to show there is no right answer, just what works best for you.

And maybe trip over that big boat anchor out the front.

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by Mort

F short plates.

"Turning" ... yet to see anyone out corner me even when I had a 193mm wheelbase on a size 10 vanilla freestyle. My foot is 283mm in length.

My current plate size is 186 IIRC. Its 1 size down from the original. What difference did it really make? Nothing other than the rear leverage point makes it easier to ride a wheelie, much like a forward mount will make skills like grapevine, spins and other toe work more difficult.

I prefer my rear axle centered up under my heel, it makes the pivoting feel natural, as if barefoot, so adjustment of pivoting from on foot to skates is near zero.

Most of my shoes have a small heel rise, but it's not enough to affect the balance aspect

Almost everyone I skate with are all on longer mounts. Essentially a forward mount with a closer to normal heel position. We adjusted our suspension to suit, aaaannnnddd All is well.

Imo if you need your plate to turn more, and you have to go to a short wheelbase to accomplish this.., maybe your skating form or athleticism is the problem?

Many times I've seen these "short forward" plates people roll and it tends to prevent them from really getting a good lean in, with not just their body, but the plate lean as well.

The primary factor in how a skater can turn is the skater, not some hack job bandaid fix of cutting down an inch of wheelbase for negligible results.

Just my thoughts. Lol

I 2nd long plates! Mine turn just fine, handle really well at high speed and are stable. Tons of fun instead of trying to stay on top of a shorter sweet spot, the sweet spot is much longer = carefree and fun!

[rufusprime99]

Originally Posted by Mort

F short plates.

"Turning" ... yet to see anyone out corner me even when I had a 193mm wheelbase on a size 10 vanilla freestyle. My foot is 283mm in length.

My current plate size is 186 IIRC. Its 1 size down from the original. What difference did it really make? Nothing other than the rear leverage point makes it easier to ride a wheelie, much like a forward mount will make skills like grapevine, spins and other toe work more difficult.

I prefer my rear axle centered up under my heel, it makes the pivoting feel natural, as if barefoot, so adjustment of pivoting from on foot to skates is near zero.

Most of my shoes have a small heel rise, but it's not enough to affect the balance aspect

Almost everyone I skate with are all on longer mounts. Essentially a forward mount with a closer to normal heel position. We adjusted our suspension to suit, aaaannnnddd All is well.

Imo if you need your plate to turn more, and you have to go to a short wheelbase to accomplish this.., maybe your skating form or athleticism is the problem?

Many times I've seen these "short forward" plates people roll and it tends to prevent them from really getting a good lean in, with not just their body, but the plate lean as well.

The primary factor in how a skater can turn is the skater, not some hack job bandaid fix of cutting down an inch of wheelbase for negligible results.

Just my thoughts. Lol

1 Me
2 I
3 My
4 My
5 I
6 My
7 I
8 Imo
9 AND FINALLY, when Mort gets to your, he criticizes. YOUR form or athleticism is the problem.

Mort in a nutshell.

[zebra1922]

Originally Posted by rufusprime99

1 Me
2 I
3 My
4 My
5 I
6 My
7 I
8 Imo
9 AND FINALLY, when Mort gets to your, he criticizes. YOUR form or athleticism is the problem.

Mort in a nutshell.

Roofie - how about if you've not got anything to contribute to the actually forum topic, you don't contribute at all. Agreed? Excellent.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by zebra1922

Roofie - how about if you've not got anything to contribute to the actually forum topic, you don't contribute at all. Agreed? Excellent.

Hes mad cause I called him out on another post, hes gotta troll the skate posts because I dont spend my time sh!tposting in the off topic area.

While I typically refrence myself, a local skater(s) with the same setup and style as me is also not lacking agility due to their plate length. Just prefer to use myself as the example instead of speaking like " I know a guy". Dont want to talk on their behalf when they arent even interested in this chat.

What one should take away from my post is that it doesn't matter what gear you really have, skill will dictate performance of that gear, and show its limitations as well. A 50$ skate isnt going to let you skate quite as fast nor as long as a very well made speed skate, but if you work on yourself, elite skill and athletic prowess will let you hang with those skaters who own high end gear. Most of us can put on rentals at a rink and bust just about everyone.

Our(friends and myself) problem with forward mounted short plates is that you comprise rearward stability in favor of minute agility at low speeds, and virtually no increase at higher speeds, just to have a skate that typically ends up being a handful to control. So one cant skate warp 9 all session long without stabilizing muscles being fatigued.

Everything is a compromise.

Originally Posted by rufusprime99

1 Me
2 I
3 My
4 My
5 I
6 My
7 I
8 Imo
9 AND FINALLY, when Mort gets to your, he criticizes. YOUR form or athleticism is the problem.

Mort in a nutshell.

Sorry, not gonna sugar coat it, people with less physical ability just arent going to skate as well with equivalent skates and skill. I didnt say his or anyone's form in particular, just if you feel you MUST have a SF mount to make a skate turn you might have some issues with yourself and want to blame it on gear. Which seems to be pretty common.

The only thing that sucks with our builds is they're fast, so the same shuffle pump speed requires us to roll a few mph faster than someone with a shorter wheelbase snyder royal plate. So getting in a shuffle line with other people always feels like I'm about to run them over. Making that worse is the person in front of you is a wind break lol

[rufusprime99]

There is no world. Only Mort.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by rufusprime99

There is no world. Only Mort.

The world is a bunch of perspectives, the OP can choose whatever they want. I at least give valid reasons for my preferences.

Purpose built skates arent good for a person looking for a general all purpose skate. That's one of my main gripes against SF/DA45. People tend to push the rear axle beyond the bodys natural pivot points.

Also I'm not a fan of bont soles. Too stiff. That's good for racing, but session or all purpose skating, leather is far better, it allows for much easier slide control...But people hardcore push bont, my session skates dont grip as well as when I put on my redline boot or the bont I tried on them, but the control I have is insane in my vanilla.

People can try whatever they like, enjoy what they like, but to just sit around an praise a type of mount, plate, boot. Etc is blind. I dont reccomend arius plates much after I wrecked my original. They require modifications to keep from getting messed up and people to understand certain mechanical aspects to really make use of them. Everyone in my crew pretty much uses them now. We all have fixed axis pin sleeves into the trucks, shims on the plates, indexed axis pins, trimmed cushions, and some of us, modified axles. I still think they are the best basic design, but they missed the mark from an engineering standpoint.

Too much rigidity in a newer skaters setup will lead to complications in learning slides. Far too often a newish skate who can barely t stop or plow is given a racing level skate when they should be on a rather crappy skate by comparison. Lesser skates usually slide out easier, and are far easier to control, require less break in, and didnt break the bank for something they may not like. An easy fix for 7mm plates is to put axle sleeves on and use 8mm bearing to encourage slop in the assembly which aids in slide initiation and control. Once a skater has that dialed in they can go back to the tighter fit of 7mm bearings.