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Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

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Old March 4th, 2014, 02:39 AM   #1
curq
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Default Confused by new rule

One part of the new rules is messing with me, and I just don't understand it. I get the first part, but I do not understand 6.3.5.1. They sound exactly the same to me- Jammer A was in the box, she got released because Jammer B got a penalty, but then Jammer A earned another penalty and is returning to the box. What needs to happen for her to be "excused from their unserved time"? What am I missing here?! Is there a typo or word missing or something?


6.3.4.1 - If the other Jammer is seated in the box before the first Jammer has returned to the box to serve their time, the second Jammer will remain in the box until their penalty is complete, or until the first Jammer is once again seated, whichever comes first. When the original Jammer is once again seated, they will serve the remainder of their first penalty, plus the amount of time served by the second Jammer. This combined penalty time will be served by the original Jammer regardless of the other Jammer’s actions from this point forward.

6.3.5.1 - If the other Jammer is seated in the box before the first Jammer has returned to the box, they will serve as many seconds as the original Jammer had served. The original Jammer is thereby excused from their unserved time, and is no longer required to return to the box. If they report to the box anyway, they will be instructed to return to the track.
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Old March 4th, 2014, 03:01 AM   #2
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Never mind! I figured it out! My brain was thinking the two were related to each other, but looking at the full passage in the rules made it obvious what the second one meant! Just needed to read a bit more.
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Old March 16th, 2014, 02:01 AM   #3
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Why did the WFTDA have to change so much again? And why are some of the rules so damn wordy? For such a reletivly straight forward sport, the rules are so complex. I've only been learning to be a referee for 6 months and I'm as confused as hell again. I even sent myself to the penalty box this week as I was soooo bad and missed so many penalties. Made a couple of the girls smile whilst I was there
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Old March 16th, 2014, 01:55 PM   #4
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I'm not speaking as a representative of either WFTDA or MRDA, so don't treat this like I am..

Rule changes are driven by membership. They looked at how the game has evolved since the shift to the no minors ruleset, and these were the changes that they wanted as the people who are playing the game.
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Old March 16th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #5
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I'm not speaking as a representative of either WFTDA or MRDA, so don't treat this like I am..

Rule changes are driven by membership. They looked at how the game has evolved since the shift to the no minors ruleset, and these were the changes that they wanted as the people who are playing the game.
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As a simple Englishman I just find the rules rather complicated. It's almost as if they are trying to make them complicated for thd sake of being complicated
Maybe I'm just getting too old to learn new tricks
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Old March 19th, 2014, 02:08 AM   #6
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There are lots of sports that appear to be simple on the surface. Someone I know recently used curling as an example. Seems easy enough, but the official rules for that sport clock in at 55+ pages.

There's a lot going on in roller derby at any given moment, and I feel like an awful lot of the rules are devoted to keeping players as safe as possible given what they're doing.

Believe me, I understand the steep learning curve when things like this rules update happen... I certainly struggle with it myself. However, I think it's ultimately for the good of the game.
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Old March 19th, 2014, 02:13 AM   #7
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Honestly, I think that most of the rule changes are just illuminations of the existing rules.

The biggest changes are the 30 second penalties and how to reform the pack. We played them already and it does change the game for the better.

Just as removing the minor penalties made the game better IMO.
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Old March 19th, 2014, 02:55 AM   #8
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My recreational ball hockey league had a 40 page rule book. It wasn't all that complicated, they were just trying to remove all ambiguity.
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Old March 20th, 2014, 03:40 AM   #9
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The reason for the 'wordiness' is because if we don't make it specifically clear, we have people arguing the definition of alphanumeric when it comes to numbers. Making the rules go from "Must be alphanumeric containing at least 1 number" to

A skater’s number may include only modern Arabic numerals and Latin
letters (uppercase or lowercase, but see Section 2.7.4.2), without accents:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0

In short terms, blame the people who try to abuse loopholes.
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Old March 22nd, 2014, 04:12 AM   #10
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What Darkjester said.

There were also a fair number of people who didn't exactly get the meaning of "alphanumeric." Or who assumed that they could have a symbol in there (legal at either end if it's 2" or smaller, never allowed in the middle).

I believe that the exact wording was put in due to some feedback they got from a friend of mine. Some of the countries that derby is spreading to use different alphabets with letters that don't exist "over here." Deutschland and Oesterreich have ß (double s), and there's vowels with umlauts.

Damn those Americans and Brits for trying to shut everyone else down! Nah, it's about referees not having to suddenly call out a letter they aren't familiar with. There are or were a couple of groups trying to form derby teams in Russia. I haven't heard much about them, I suspect it was still in the "attempting to recruit skaters" stage. Cyrillic is a whole other alphabet!
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Old May 12th, 2014, 12:05 PM   #11
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What Darkjester said.

There were also a fair number of people who didn't exactly get the meaning of "alphanumeric." Or who assumed that they could have a symbol in there (legal at either end if it's 2" or smaller, never allowed in the middle).

I believe that the exact wording was put in due to some feedback they got from a friend of mine. Some of the countries that derby is spreading to use different alphabets with letters that don't exist "over here." Deutschland and Oesterreich have ß (double s), and there's vowels with umlauts.

Damn those Americans and Brits for trying to shut everyone else down! Nah, it's about referees not having to suddenly call out a letter they aren't familiar with. There are or were a couple of groups trying to form derby teams in Russia. I haven't heard much about them, I suspect it was still in the "attempting to recruit skaters" stage. Cyrillic is a whole other alphabet!
There's actually no problem with Cyrillic and Latin - in Russia we use Latin for our derby names
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Old May 12th, 2014, 08:24 PM   #12
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The rules are wordy because some skaters are full-time lawyers when they're not in their skates, and are excellent at finding exploitable loopholes.

Most common thing I hear, "Well, the rules do not specifically say you can't do that."

I've officiated two games now where one team would remove the jammer cover as soon as the opposing jammer secured lead jammer status. Every time.

Frustrating and confusing as hell for all officials involved. But, technically legal.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 08:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
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The rules are wordy because some skaters are full-time lawyers when they're not in their skates, and are excellent at finding exploitable loopholes.

Most common thing I hear, "Well, the rules do not specifically say you can't do that."

I've officiated two games now where one team would remove the jammer cover as soon as the opposing jammer secured lead jammer status. Every time.

Frustrating and confusing as hell for all officials involved. But, technically legal.
I don't see why they would do that, unless they plan to pass every time. They can't score as inactive jammer.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 09:50 PM   #14
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I don't see why they would do that, unless they plan to pass every time. They can't score as inactive jammer.
The jammer would put the cover back on as she approached the rear of the pack. And then on exit of the engagement zone it'd come right back off.

All it really did was piss off every Official in the place. I saw no tactical advantage. it's not like the opposing blockers suddenly forgot who the jammer was simply because she took the cover off.

Yes, they lost both games I officiated... By a considerable margin.
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Old May 12th, 2014, 10:21 PM   #15
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2.3.3. “An inactive jammer is any Jammer who is not wearing the Jammer helmet cover with the stars visible for any reason. An inactive Jammer has all the advantage of all Jammer abilities accept scoring points and earning lead Jammer.”

It would be silly for someone to remove their panties to be “stealthy”… because they would have to perform a maneuver of putting the panties back on in order to score. Meanwhile, the lead jammer can still lap and score on the inactive jammer. She can still be knocked out of bounds and engaged.

First time a jammer does that and drops her panties or can’t get them on while going through the pack (I would actually let her slide right through the pack so fast she would get no score) their coach would rethink that strategy.
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