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Old August 28th, 2014, 08:24 PM   #1
inkh0rn
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Default Antik Spyder - intermediate skater impressions after a DA45 lifestyle

Hi all. I've posted this in the main quad forum as well, but as these are Derby-specific skates, I'm hoping there are some in here who can offer advice.

Been on inlines exclusively since early this year, when I sold my previous pairs of quads - SG Rebel Avengers and some Sondico soccer boots on Avenger plates. As an intermediate wanting to become more advanced and balanced in skills, I had decided to focus on inlines only after flitting between both codes. I also fancied aggressive inline.

Having had one too many falls at the skatepark - and realising that at 42 it's never going to be much more than just rolling down the ramps for me - I decided to get some more quads and get back into quad skating (and maybe hit the ramps on those! Gently, that is...). I used to love the feel of skating quads, and I have to say, skating aggressive inlines is not skating per se - it's just lining up for tricks or riding ramps. I have pro model Xsjado skates and they are bloody awful to just skate in.

After much research, taking budget and preference into account - I wanted a skate that could handle session, outdoor and maybe some skatepark or even derby use - I settled on the Antik Spyder package skate in a US12/UK11.

Love the boot; the Envy wheels will be fine for outdoors and skatepark (I have scrounged back my Roll-Line Olympic 93As for indoor); however, it's the plate and action that made my first session rolling these an horrendous experience.

First, the cushions seem absolutely sh*te. From searching the forum I see the advice is to swap out for Riedell magics or SG supers - I can get those easily, although I have to say it irks me when the SG Avengers' purple stock cushions were absolutely fine out of the box. Until I've swapped them out, I can't really comment though. The stock black cushions were so cranked down out of the box that I loosened them about 3-4 threads each then let them expand out - they were more manoeuvrable after that but still crap. I'm trying not to kick myself for buying a Triton plate, as I know there are plenty on here that will do that for me .

Second, the mount. OMG what a horrible feeling! Balance all wrong, toe stops catching on the floor on crossovers even with them backed all the way up to the plate - and backwards, so unstable! Having gone from crappy 'plastic' quads to SG Rebel Avengers a couple of years ago, I suppose I've got used to the balance and feel of the sport mount. However, I was not progressing in some skills and I noticed all my skate mates' mounts were more standard - so I figured I would maybe lose a little motion but gain stability & speed. Not my experience at all from last night. Normal 'go fast turn left' felt weird, but my confidence built up slowly but surely...and then I tripped myself up going into sideways/mohawk/whateveryoucallit and found I could hardly do it! Backwards the same way was ok-ish but still unstable...however, I couldn't turn and go backwards skating clockwise, my weak side, and forwards crossovers this way I was constantly catching the toe stop on the floor - I couldn't even begin to describe what went wrong. Everything was wrong! I thought standard was supposed to be more stable, but I haven't felt so unstable since I first began skating!

Common sense tells me that I have been off quads for a significant while, and so my first roll on this new setup shouldn't be my final judgement as it will take time to adjust. However, I felt instinctively that had I been back on SG's/DA45 Avengers, I would have at least returned to basic proficiency and had the confidence to join in the speed skate. The Spyders terrified me; they were definitely out to bite (sorry).

I will have to just keep skating them and try to get used to the mount and balance points. I'm sure new cushions will help.

What's got me thinking, though, is that I was also told last night to re-mount the plates slightly more forward - as it is, the rear wheel is behind my ankle bone, and the front under the ball of my foot/towards the first knuckle of my big toe - a mate said he'd had some and had to shift the plate forward an inch, and he's a standard mount man all the way!

Anyone had any direct or indirect experience of mount issues on Spyders or other Antiks with a similar mount, and had to do the same? In other words, is their factory mount 'standard' or is it even more rearward than most standard mounts?

Please don't hit me up with a pile of Tritoss abuse - I know it's not a great plate, but changing that for an Avenger or higher spec 10-20 degree just wasn't and isn't an option budget-wise at the mo. They will have to do.

Fiddling aside, I am left wondering...will I be able to re-adjust...or have I been DA-45'd for life? Answers on a postcard please
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Old August 30th, 2014, 07:20 AM   #2
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A good detailed picture of the mount would be helpful. If the front axle is under the ball, the move forward is only a little for better speed, but could be more if you want to. Can't say much about the side to side issue with the mount without seeing it.

The gummy cushions should help the turning, butů. I see some other inlines listed. Knowing how I like the cutting ability of an inline, and how well a DA45 turns, you might need to go that route again. But, see how the softer urethane cushions feel to you. That might give you enough of what you want.

Triton. Tsk tsk.
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Old August 30th, 2014, 02:08 PM   #3
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A good detailed picture of the mount would be helpful. If the front axle is under the ball, the move forward is only a little for better speed, but could be more if you want to. Can't say much about the side to side issue with the mount without seeing it.

The gummy cushions should help the turning, butů. I see some other inlines listed. Knowing how I like the cutting ability of an inline, and how well a DA45 turns, you might need to go that route again. But, see how the softer urethane cushions feel to you. That might give you enough of what you want.

Triton. Tsk tsk.
Cheers Rufus. I thought no-one was going to reply....there's a puzzling lack of detailed reviews on the Spyders on the interwebs, especially by peeps who've had them a while.

Put in some SG purple super cushions with new smaller retainers for the cones. Has improved response 200%. In fact I may have to go to reds on these plates as the purples seem way more squirrely than they were on avengers. Took them to the skatepark today (in at the deep end, eh), they felt good. Will have to see how they are at the next rink sesh :-)
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Old August 30th, 2014, 04:35 PM   #4
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Put in some SG purple super cushions with new smaller retainers for the cones. Has improved response 200%. In fact I may have to go to reds on these plates as the purples seem way more squirrely than they were on avengers. Took them to the skatepark today (in at the deep end, eh), they felt good. Will have to see how they are at the next rink sesh :-)

There is a reason for that. Compare where the sk8rs weight is carried on a DA45 vs a more conventional plate.

Looking at the pix of said sk8, the plates look like they are the latest mat finished iteration of the Powerdyne Triton.


I would avoid the sk8 park if they are Tritons. The originals had a history of bending in the middle and trucks snapping... Of course I have not seen any of the "new" ones. No one around here is on Tritons any more.

Fiddling aside, I am left wondering...will I be able to re-adjust...or have I been DA-45'd for life? Answers on a postcard please
I swiped this last sentence from your post in the quad forum. If this post will suffice as the requested "post card" ...... the fact that you have even asked this question tells me the short answer is yes.
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Old September 1st, 2014, 08:41 PM   #5
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I swiped this last sentence from your post in the quad forum. If this post will suffice as the requested "post card" ...... the fact that you have even asked this question tells me the short answer is yes.
Thanks for your sagely advice as ever, Doc.

You're right, of course - I'm never going to feel the same about skating these 15 degree Triton things as the Avengers. Especially at speed, where the whole physics of the plates just feels so wrong.

The longer mount felt more stable when pumping in the ramps, though. Had I had stock sport mount Rebel Avengers on, I'm sure I would have bit it a few times due to the mount.

Long term plan would seem to be to sell the Tritons while still new, and get some more Avengers mounted...maybe a size 6 plate, even, in a more standard mount. But that's one for the future ;-)
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Old September 1st, 2014, 09:07 PM   #6
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LOL. Same for me. I am so used to leaning over a lot and compensating with the DA45. I know I'd fall over with less turn.
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Old September 2nd, 2014, 12:15 AM   #7
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LOL. Same for me. I am so used to leaning over a lot and compensating with the DA45. I know I'd fall over with less turn.
I skated probe plates before my arius and back then I Tried a buddy's labeda G80.. About ate shyt. Lol I went to turn and lean and the skate did nothing. The carrera that my friend uses nowadays turns a lot like my arius or other da45 plates. The difference isn't much really. But that skate isn't normal by any means either.
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Old September 2nd, 2014, 03:34 PM   #8
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You say: "After much research, taking budget and preference into account - I wanted a skate that could handle session, outdoor and maybe some skatepark or even derby use - I settled on the Antik Spyder package skate in a US12/UK11."

The Triton plate needs a lot of tweaking to get any decent level of turning responsiveness from it. Not impossible though, but their excess weight and being prone to breaking makes them not much worth the effort.

As for one plate to handle four kinds of skating, I think that DA45 will only handle two of them well - derby and session. For outdoor skating, unless surface is very smooth, and for skatepark skating, if you jump & land, the DA45 plates are a poor choice.

They transmit too much vibration, through the near vertical pivot pin, from the rougher outdoor rolling surfaces, and when jumping and landing, they do not cushion the impact well. They also turn too aggressively off track whenever you land with your focus of weight a little bit off the mark, making it easier to fall.

In addition, they are less stable than steeper KP plates when rolling at the higher outdoor speeds encountered going downhill, with a big tailwind, or both combined.

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Old September 5th, 2014, 11:16 PM   #9
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Default We shall rebuild them!

Remounted the Tritons to the front of the boot...still not super snappy turning, but much more at home now. Balance & response much closer to the DA45 feel I'm used to. Will be interesting to see how they handle at speed at the rink.

Seems the cushion change and remount may have made these into the skates the blurb promises they would be. Time will tell ;-)
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Old September 6th, 2014, 12:07 AM   #10
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Default Remounted!

First, the position of the rear of the plate - the imprint of how far back the factory mount was still visible:

[IMG][/IMG]

And the side view, plate all the way to the front. I noticed I could see the toe stops when skating - I forgot that this was what I was used to with the Rebel Avengers:

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Old September 6th, 2014, 12:51 AM   #11
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You should like the forward mount for go-fast. Nice to hear things are going in the right direction.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 05:38 AM   #12
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What an interesting thread - I'm a DA45 skater too who's also transitioned to outdoors skating, but have no problems at all running Avengers outdoors.

My first skates were She Devils - 126 Tritons - and I hated the stiff, heavy, unresponsive plates with a passion. I inserted softer cushions and loosened the trucks a fair way, but was almost relieved when I finally decided the boots were too damn big and that I needed a new set. I finally achieved perfection with my Blue Streak Avengers.. then quit derby after my very first session skating in them (allergic to cow poop). The question of stability is interesting, as despite the looseness of the Avengers compared with Tritons, I felt a ton more stable simply due to not having to fight the plate at every move. I now skate outdoors for training, but despite my derby-centric setup I've no intentions at all of switching out for a more vertical plate or different boots.

I have read that the shorter angles mean that more of your weight and various impacts are absorbed by the cushions, whereas DA45 plates may be a bit rough and squirrelly for outdoors, but you know what - there is no issue to my mind, and I cover some kilometres. My skating routes take me over smooth and rough bitumen, areas of concrete path that are seriously degraded, paving stones with clukkity-clack gaps & ridges every metre, wooden slat bridges, and pebblecrete type stuff. Only the bridges give enough vibration to pose a problem, though frankly I think they would no matter what plate or wheels I had. My feet don't go to sleep even with rough bitumen vibrations.

I do have half a mind to buy some softer cushions and switch them in just for comparison's sake, but am very happy with my setup and its suitability for outdoor skating. The only adjustment I make when switching from indoors to outdoors is a one-half turn tighten of the trucks - this is all they need, even though my indoors setup is pretty (super!) loose. I also have 80A wheels (Roll-Line Helium). Best of all is that I keep my DA45 plates and all the benefits. I skate indoors sometimes for fun, and can chuck on the Prestos, loosen the trucks a little, and have that awesome responsiveness and speed back again. (I can't afford a set each of indoor & outdoor skates).

So I'm wondering, if you find yourself missing the DA45 even slightly, why not save up for the cheaper aluminium version and go back to them? (Or perhaps something a little halfway that's lighter than the 3-Tonne Triton at least, there are plates out there around 22║ or so and cheaper than Avengers). I'm a marathoner and use outdoor skating as my cross-training sessions, and generally skate around 25-35kms 4x weekly with no problems at all. I'm even pondering going for taller and slightly harder wheels for more roll. I'd rather put up with perhaps slightly more vibration on a DA45 than the heavy clumpiness of a Triton when skating outdoors, dodging errant children and loose doggies..


TL;DR: Yes. You are absolutely a DA45 converteure quelle tragique. Save up, get another one. Entropy has no problem skating them outdoors, therefore you won't either.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 11:48 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by [B
TL;DR:[/B] Yes. You are absolutely a DA45 converteure quelle tragique. Save up, get another one. Entropy has no problem skating them outdoors, therefore you won't either.
Entropy, what a legendary reply to this thread. I am most impressed. I am also in agreement that DA45 outdoors = more awesomeness - I too have skated them on all manner of outdoor surfaces from super smooth concrete to rocky road crumbled tarmac with added gravel.

I think you are right that more Avenger action is needed. I shall put plans into action ;-)
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Old September 7th, 2014, 11:28 AM   #14
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Entropy, what a legendary reply to this thread. I am most impressed. I am also in agreement that DA45 outdoors = more awesomeness - I too have skated them on all manner of outdoor surfaces from super smooth concrete to rocky road crumbled tarmac with added gravel.

I think you are right that more Avenger action is needed. I shall put plans into action ;-)
If you are looking for a bargain in a used DA45, keep an eye out for an Invader DA45. Same sweet action, just a few more ounces, and likely a nice cost saving.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 02:15 PM   #15
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Beware of the "firmer wheels give more roll (outdoors)" fallacy.
Too soft wheels will certainly slow you down from their too much squish giving too long of a surface contact patch, which yields a greater level of "snow plow" resistance, but there is an optimum level of wheel firmness to match any given level of surface roughness, and going too far firmer than that ideal level starts slowing you down, as more of your rolling energy starts being sucked up by the resulting greater amplitude of vertical axle motion that the too high firmness wheels produce.

The goal in finding the optimum wheel firmness, relative to the degree of outdoor rolling surface roughness, is to have the vertical height of protruding surface imperfections cause as little lifting of the axles (and your mass along with them) as possible.

If more squishy wheels can handle hitting surface protrusions with greater depth of squish (and subsequent rebound), without elevating the axle as much as firmer wheels, then the amount of energy stolen from roughness is diminished.

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Last edited by Armadillo; May 16th, 2015 at 08:37 PM. Reason: Wrong=> "firmer wheels give more roll (outdoors)"
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Old May 12th, 2015, 08:24 PM   #16
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Hi all. I've posted this in the main quad forum as well, but as these are Derby-specific skates, I'm hoping there are some in here who can offer advice.

Been on inlines exclusively since early this year, when I sold my previous pairs of quads - SG Rebel Avengers and some Sondico soccer boots on Avenger plates. As an intermediate wanting to become more advanced and balanced in skills, I had decided to focus on inlines only after flitting between both codes. I also fancied aggressive inline.

Having had one too many falls at the skatepark - and realising that at 42 it's never going to be much more than just rolling down the ramps for me - I decided to get some more quads and get back into quad skating (and maybe hit the ramps on those! Gently, that is...). I used to love the feel of skating quads, and I have to say, skating aggressive inlines is not skating per se - it's just lining up for tricks or riding ramps. I have pro model Xsjado skates and they are bloody awful to just skate in.

After much research, taking budget and preference into account - I wanted a skate that could handle session, outdoor and maybe some skatepark or even derby use - I settled on the Antik Spyder package skate in a US12/UK11.

Love the boot; the Envy wheels will be fine for outdoors and skatepark (I have scrounged back my Roll-Line Olympic 93As for indoor); however, it's the plate and action that made my first session rolling these an horrendous experience.

First, the cushions seem absolutely sh*te. From searching the forum I see the advice is to swap out for Riedell magics or SG supers - I can get those easily, although I have to say it irks me when the SG Avengers' purple stock cushions were absolutely fine out of the box. Until I've swapped them out, I can't really comment though. The stock black cushions were so cranked down out of the box that I loosened them about 3-4 threads each then let them expand out - they were more manoeuvrable after that but still crap. I'm trying not to kick myself for buying a Triton plate, as I know there are plenty on here that will do that for me .

Second, the mount. OMG what a horrible feeling! Balance all wrong, toe stops catching on the floor on crossovers even with them backed all the way up to the plate - and backwards, so unstable! Having gone from crappy 'plastic' quads to SG Rebel Avengers a couple of years ago, I suppose I've got used to the balance and feel of the sport mount. However, I was not progressing in some skills and I noticed all my skate mates' mounts were more standard - so I figured I would maybe lose a little motion but gain stability & speed. Not my experience at all from last night. Normal 'go fast turn left' felt weird, but my confidence built up slowly but surely...and then I tripped myself up going into sideways/mohawk/whateveryoucallit and found I could hardly do it! Backwards the same way was ok-ish but still unstable...however, I couldn't turn and go backwards skating clockwise, my weak side, and forwards crossovers this way I was constantly catching the toe stop on the floor - I couldn't even begin to describe what went wrong. Everything was wrong! I thought standard was supposed to be more stable, but I haven't felt so unstable since I first began skating!

Common sense tells me that I have been off quads for a significant while, and so my first roll on this new setup shouldn't be my final judgement as it will take time to adjust. However, I felt instinctively that had I been back on SG's/DA45 Avengers, I would have at least returned to basic proficiency and had the confidence to join in the speed skate. The Spyders terrified me; they were definitely out to bite (sorry).

I will have to just keep skating them and try to get used to the mount and balance points. I'm sure new cushions will help.

What's got me thinking, though, is that I was also told last night to re-mount the plates slightly more forward - as it is, the rear wheel is behind my ankle bone, and the front under the ball of my foot/towards the first knuckle of my big toe - a mate said he'd had some and had to shift the plate forward an inch, and he's a standard mount man all the way!

Anyone had any direct or indirect experience of mount issues on Spyders or other Antiks with a similar mount, and had to do the same? In other words, is their factory mount 'standard' or is it even more rearward than most standard mounts?

Please don't hit me up with a pile of Tritoss abuse - I know it's not a great plate, but changing that for an Avenger or higher spec 10-20 degree just wasn't and isn't an option budget-wise at the mo. They will have to do.

Fiddling aside, I am left wondering...will I be able to re-adjust...or have I been DA-45'd for life? Answers on a postcard please
Hi inkh0m, it`s been a while since you posted this, my apologies for dragging up an old thread. I have now got my Antik Spyder quads and like yours they came with the cushions cranked right down. I want to emulate you and replace the black cushions with the purple SG`s, I`m just wondering if you still think this is the way to go or if you have found anything even better? I`m a novice in all this so would appreciate any advice.
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Old May 13th, 2015, 04:05 PM   #17
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Wow, that factory mount sucks.
Looks better after the re-mount.
That toe stop hangs down so low, no wonder you catch it on crossovers. If DA45 is your thing, I'd say go for it when you have the funds.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 03:31 AM   #18
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You're unlikely to find a lot of reviews for the Spyder because of what it is. It's the lowest-shelf/lowest-priced boot from Antik (Riedell's cachet brand). It's made in China rather than Minnesota, probably doesn't come in half-sizes, has rubber soles and possibly might even be a vinyl upper (not sure about that last one).

I believe the intended market for these are fresh meat skaters with a budget that would allow them to aim a wee bit higher than the R3, but not quite high enough for something they'd make here in the U.S. in half-sizes with a better plate.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 09:23 AM   #19
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You're unlikely to find a lot of reviews for the Spyder because of what it is. It's the lowest-shelf/lowest-priced boot from Antik (Riedell's cachet brand). It's made in China rather than Minnesota, probably doesn't come in half-sizes, has rubber soles and possibly might even be a vinyl upper (not sure about that last one).

I believe the intended market for these are fresh meat skaters with a budget that would allow them to aim a wee bit higher than the R3, but not quite high enough for something they'd make here in the U.S. in half-sizes with a better plate.
I can confirm that the boots are indeed leather. These Spyders are entry level quads, made in China and as such are good value for money. This is just my opinion of course, and it may well change if I experience a plate breakage! Anyway, so far so good, I will change the cushions for S.G. purple. Just a question if anyone is interested in answering. Is it generally easier to skate slowly or quickly when re-learning ? I seem to have more balance problems when trying to take it easy and have gone a over t twice when at a standstill, just as if I had been stood on a rug that was suddenly whipped out from under my feet. Can I also just ask for recommendations for a pad set ( available in the U.K.?) tia
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Old May 16th, 2015, 08:46 PM   #20
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If you love skating your DA-45 plates outdoors, for whatever reasons, I can only tell you that for mainly straight ahead, asphalt trail outdoor speed skating, with proper speed skater low stance form, other styles of less steep action angle plates will allow you to skate at faster sustained speed than you can with the more exaggerated turning response DA-45 style of plates.

The higher the skater skill level of the outdoor-rolling DA45 lover, the more their disadvantages can me minimized, but they will always be present and working against you to some degree.

-Armadillo
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