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Old January 18th, 2020, 07:56 PM   #21
ursle
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I never said it took away insurance coverage you half wit.
It forced people to get coverage, or pay a penalty.
The fact that it was forced upon people is total crap. Some of us out here began to incur more costs in a already burdened financial situation.
Worse yet, your ignorance to this issue is astounding. You think its going to hurt insurance scammers? No, I wasnt even starting to touch that, but if you think that mandating health insurance is going to magically make hospitals and health care providers decrease their fees.... you're a fool.
The ignorance of how money flows, the greed of men must be above you. Especially if the issues ar hand would make a Democrat look bad. You're the mirror of rufusprime99.
So in other words, your only complaint about obamacare is "it" was mandated, exactly like the successful implementation of insurance in Massachusetts by Romney, which it was modeled after, and because of it 20 million Americans got insurance, if you didn't have insurance because of the cost or because insurance companies were unregulated, could refuse you, well, it got you insured at a fair price for actual coverage with no excuses by the company about pre-existing conditions, to pretend otherwise is to ignore the facts.

I mentioned taking for profit insurance out of the market, you can pretend to not understand or just be angry from ignorance, not my problem.
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Old January 18th, 2020, 09:31 PM   #22
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Obummercare took My Daughters insurance cost from $200 a month to over $500 a month, so it didn't hurt anybody, right.
Same result here as well. Drove our prices up to cover others that didn't.
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Old January 19th, 2020, 12:53 AM   #23
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Same result here as well. Drove our prices up to cover others that didn't.
And there's your communism, helping the greater good is communism to those that practice it to the detriment of those they extort.


Yet you use the national highway system, you may or may not be on a national health care system, right, next year after the communist in the white house is in jail, universal health care and education will embark.


The US will attempt to educate it people and keep them alive.

You communist's are trying to prevent that, it's a problem, money talks, bs walks.
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Old January 19th, 2020, 01:29 PM   #24
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So in other words, your only complaint about obamacare is "it" was mandated, exactly like the successful implementation of insurance in Massachusetts by Romney, which it was modeled after, and because of it 20 million Americans got insurance, if you didn't have insurance because of the cost or because insurance companies were unregulated, could refuse you, well, it got you insured at a fair price for actual coverage with no excuses by the company about pre-existing conditions, to pretend otherwise is to ignore the facts.

I mentioned taking for profit insurance out of the market, you can pretend to not understand or just be angry from ignorance, not my problem.
No , being mandated was only one of the problems, actually the primary one where insurances starts to GO UP, because companies KNOW you MUST have it.

Remember when auto insurance was not mandatory? How did that help its prices? Hahahah, it did not. It went UP, NOT DOWN.

Research is the difference between speculation and investment buddy.

You mentioned it? Pft, you only hinted at that is what would naturally happen, as if profiteering at the expense of others wont start? Are you a fool?

Listen, I'm all for a supplement system in health care where people can get their necessities looked after without breaking their banks. The problem with this is regulating it without some crackpots coming in and manipulating the system. Its always going to happen mind you, but there were no steps put in place that helped to regulate the costs of medical services, nor were there any to mitigate the increase of premiums insurers will charge the public.

I had a basic ultrasound done. In an impoverished area, and paid ceiling level prices. What should've cost around 100 to 300 $ was being charged to me at 596$. Yet you want to argue for widespread health care without rectifying the vastly overcharged public...
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Old January 19th, 2020, 02:17 PM   #25
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No , being mandated was only one of the problems, actually the primary one where insurances starts to GO UP, because companies KNOW you MUST have it.

Remember when auto insurance was not mandatory? How did that help its prices? Hahahah, it did not. It went UP, NOT DOWN.

Research is the difference between speculation and investment buddy.

You mentioned it? Pft, you only hinted at that is what would naturally happen, as if profiteering at the expense of others wont start? Are you a fool?

Listen, I'm all for a supplement system in health care where people can get their necessities looked after without breaking their banks. The problem with this is regulating it without some crackpots coming in and manipulating the system. Its always going to happen mind you, but there were no steps put in place that helped to regulate the costs of medical services, nor were there any to mitigate the increase of premiums insurers will charge the public.

I had a basic ultrasound done. In an impoverished area, and paid ceiling level prices. What should've cost around 100 to 300 $ was being charged to me at 596$. Yet you want to argue for widespread health care without rectifying the vastly overcharged public...
There are 2 prices for services, if you have insurance the cost is huge. If not a lot less. Sometimes it is the cash price plus an "insurance bump" price.
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Old January 19th, 2020, 02:54 PM   #26
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No , being mandated was only one of the problems, actually the primary one where insurances starts to GO UP, because companies KNOW you MUST have it.

ACA had different levels of plans with fixed prices, there was no monkey business, you're confusing apples and oranges.(private vs aca)


Remember when auto insurance was not mandatory? How did that help its prices? Hahahah, it did not. It went UP, NOT DOWN.

It's not required in NH and there are lots of companies to choose from, lots of price points, ACA is or was priced nationally.


Research is the difference between speculation and investment buddy.

You mentioned it? Pft, you only hinted at that is what would naturally happen, as if profiteering at the expense of others wont start? Are you a fool?

Again, ACA is price structured, across all states.
I didn't pay 596$ for an ultrasound, I don't suffer fools


Listen, I'm all for a supplement system in health care where people can get their necessities looked after without breaking their banks. The problem with this is regulating it without some crackpots coming in and manipulating the system. Its always going to happen mind you, but there were no steps put in place that helped to regulate the costs of medical services, nor were there any to mitigate the increase of premiums insurers will charge the public.

Again, ACA was price structured nationally, private insurance can charge whatever you will pay.


I had a basic ultrasound done. In an impoverished area, and paid ceiling level prices. What should've cost around 100 to 300 $ was being charged to me at 596$. Yet you want to argue for widespread health care without rectifying the vastly overcharged public...
Should've shopped around, but, conflating the price of a private practitioner to ACA coverage is all you're doing here, if you had insurance it would've covered the ultrasound.

Yes, I want to advocate for widespread health care, with private insurance companies not involved, pretty simple, take the for profit insurance away, W Virginia before ACA had one in seven people uninsured, and was the 49th least health state, W Virginia was dragged into today's world, trust me, the rest of the world laments.
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Old January 20th, 2020, 01:16 AM   #27
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There are 2 prices for services, if you have insurance the cost is huge. If not a lot less. Sometimes it is the cash price plus an "insurance bump" price.
Really, and you have any licensed doctor in the US that agrees.(kidding psychopaths will do anything for money.)

In the US, uninsured people are why the prices are so high, they walk in get 200,000$ worth of treatment and walk out, the hospitals know that 20% of the patients don't pay and charge everyone accordingly, getting the deadbeats on insurance stops that leak.

I can see how as an uninsured person, you may think that there are tiers of prices, if the hospital can get any money out of a deadbeat at all, it's a poker game, and the hospital is losing money, but less.
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Old January 20th, 2020, 02:35 AM   #28
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Should've shopped around, but, conflating the price of a private practitioner to ACA coverage is all you're doing here, if you had insurance it would've covered the ultrasound.

Yes, I want to advocate for widespread health care, with private insurance companies not involved, pretty simple, take the for profit insurance away, W Virginia before ACA had one in seven people uninsured, and was the 49th least health state, W Virginia was dragged into today's world, trust me, the rest of the world laments.

I do have insurance, and No, it does not cover ultrasounds, because the minimum deductible had not been reached that year, and virtually never is, because I typically never need to visit the hospital.

But your type wants me to pay into insurance scam so other people can yank my $$ for nothing lol.

I'm well versed on how insurance works, and until you can take away the gross profiteering of it, you're fighting a losing battle, same thing with hospitals. Most(not all) are extortionate in so many ways.
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Old January 20th, 2020, 01:58 PM   #29
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If your doctor had arranged for an ultrasound insurance would've helped.
For example if you...

Blood work pricing at a lab can range anywhere from $100 for one simple test, to $3,000 for several complex tests. On average, to get blood work done at a lab when the patient is uninsured will cost around $1,500.Feb 15, 2016


So insurance is a necessity, obamacare is insurance, 20 million, actually, more like 50 million Americans received insurance under obamacare, that's going the way of the Dodo bird.

Health care is the number 1 subject on voters minds, Trump's already claiming that only he can save pre existing conditions as his department of justice is this very minute suing to end obamacare.

Trump’s claim that he ‘saved’ pre-ex conditions ‘part fantasy, part delusion’

President Donald Trump attempted to take credit for one of the most popular elements of the Affordable Care Act: Its protection for people who have preexisting medical conditions.

"I was the person who saved Pre-Existing Conditions in your healthcare," Trump tweeted on Jan. 13.

The protection for people with medical problems has been a rallying cry for Democrats, and they used the issue to help propel their widespread election victories in 2018.

Trump repeatedly has sought to align himself with this issue – in May, for instance, claiming he would "always protect patients with preexisting conditions." We rated that claim False. His re-election campaign has made similar claims, which experts debunked.

Trump’s recent claim that he "saved" that guarantee of coverage adds a new twist, though. We contacted the White House to find out the basis for this statement.

Judd Deere, a White House spokesman, told us, "President Trump has repeatedly stated his commitment to protect individuals with preexisting conditions and his track record shows that he has consistently done what is necessary to improve care for the vulnerable." Deere also pointed us to a range of other policy initiatives – such as efforts on kidney health, approving generic drugs and loosening restrictions on short-term health plans.

But none of those addressed the basis of Trump’s tweet.

The health policy experts we consulted, however, were unambiguous: The president’s claim has no factual basis and flies in the face of his ongoing policy efforts.

"I feel like we’re being gas-lit," said Linda Blumberg, a health economist at the Urban Institute. "You can’t tell me you’re the savior of people with preexisting conditions when every single thing you’ve said or done is the opposite of that." (Gaslighting means manipulating the telling of events in such a way it leads people to question their recollections.)

This skepticism persisted across the political spectrum.

"That’s a rather extended version of aspirational rhetoric short of any evidence," said Tom Miller, a resident fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute.

The preexisting condition protection

Under the Affordable Care Act, or ACA, health insurance plans cannot charge people higher prices because they have a medical condition. This protection has been intact since the law took effect, under then-President Barack Obama.

As a 2016 candidate, Trump promised to repeal and replace the health law. That came to a head in 2017, when the law came within one vote in the Senate of being undone.

"That tweet is part fantasy, part delusion, part politics, and all lie," said Jonathan Oberlander, a health policy professor at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill. "The president is lying about preexisting conditions. He supported, and continues to support, efforts to repeal the ACA that would take those consumer protections away."

After that effort, Blumberg said, the president boasted that he had dismantled Obamacare – which is not only untrue, but, she added, confused many consumers.

Since then, the president has maintained his desire to undo the ACA and replace it with something new.

Neither his administration nor congressional Republicans have yet offered a replacement plan. None of the bills they have endorsed would maintain the guarantees of coverage for people with medical problems.

"By supporting repeal of the ACA, they’re supporting repeal of protecting preexisting condition prohibitions," Robert Berenson, another analyst at the Urban Institute, previously told us.

Texas v. Azar

Meanwhile, the Trump administration’s work elsewhere could undo the protection.

A group of Republican-led states are suing to have the entire ACA dismantled. Their argument stems from a law Trump signed: the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017.

That law gutted the individual mandate – the ACA’s requirement that everyone have coverage or pay a penalty – by reducing the penalty to $0.

In this case, known as Texas vs. Azar, the Republican states are arguing that the individual mandate was central to the ACA, and that without it, the entire law must be taken down. That would include the protections for people with preexisting conditions.

The administration has declined to defend the law in court, a move legal analysts have called almost unprecedented. The case is widely expected to go to the Supreme Court. Since the White House has unveiled no replacement, striking the law would leave a policy vacuum, allowing health plans to revert to discriminating against people with medical issues.

Miller argued that the still-pending court case and previous repeal efforts don’t necessarily mean there’s any imminent threat of the president gutting the ACA’s preexisting condition protections.

"For pure public opinion purposes, you want to say you’re protecting against preexisting condition protections," Miller said. "Does he know how to do it? No. Is he doing anything trying to change it? Not really."

But others noted that the administration’s stance is firmly against maintaining the ACA’s prohibitions.

"The Democrats have correctly said the Trump administration has in fact opposed protections for preexisting conditions by endorsing the lawsuit," Berenson said.

Our ruling

Trump tweeted that he "was the person who saved Pre-Existing Conditions in your healthcare."

The president had nothing to do with the ban on health insurance plans discriminating against people with preexisting conditions. This consumer protection is a core part of the health care law that became law during the Obama presidency. Trump has expressly supported the repeal of this law without offering a replacement that would keep the protection intact.

And to this day, his administration is arguing in court that the law – including this provision – should be undone.

The president’s tweet is not only untrue, but it misrepresents his administration’s efforts to repeal the health care law without offering any replacement that might maintain its core protections. We rate this claim Pants on Fire.
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Old January 20th, 2020, 05:44 PM   #30
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Should've shopped around, but, conflating the price of a private practitioner to ACA coverage is all you're doing here, if you had insurance it would've covered the ultrasound.

Yes, I want to advocate for widespread health care, with private insurance companies not involved, pretty simple, take the for profit insurance away, W Virginia before ACA had one in seven people uninsured, and was the 49th least health state, W Virginia was dragged into today's world, trust me, the rest of the world laments.
I didn't have time to wait, everywhere else was booked up, and yea, I have insurance, but mine doesnt have coverage without meeting a deductible first for some things.


The health of most west Virginians is appalling.

You're still failing to see that mandating insurance increases its price.

You're also failing to see that with everyone having it, hospitals arent stopped from being extortionists.
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Old January 21st, 2020, 02:34 PM   #31
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The health of most west Virginians is appalling.

You're still failing to see that mandating insurance increases its price.

You're also failing to see that with everyone having it, hospitals arent stopped from being extortionists.
Mandating insurance, real insurance with price tiers and control of the process is what it takes to bring insurance to insurance less places, they won't do it on their own.

Of course real insurance is going to be more expensive than pseudo insurance or no insurance, pseudo insurance~~~ the company drops you for no reason, the company won't pay for procedures, etc, vs Obamacare, set price tiers, everybody pays the same amount, the policy can't be cancelled, and overall, money is saved, more people save more money and hospitals don't have a 25-40% deadbeat clients list, people that use emergency services and don't pay, the whole medical industry needs to be monetized, get rid of the graft, well, obamacare was a good first step.

Obamacare set price levels it paid hospitals, they complied, in states that adopted it, everywhere else it's still the Wild West, you seem to be ignoring the facts, obamacare set price tiers for insurance wanted and set prices paid for procedures, it worked, until November of 16', and it's the number one topic on the minds of voters, well, voters with minds.
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Old January 22nd, 2020, 07:05 AM   #32
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Mandating insurance, real insurance with price tiers and control of the process is what it takes to bring insurance to insurance less places, they won't do it on their own.

Of course real insurance is going to be more expensive than pseudo insurance or no insurance, pseudo insurance~~~ the company drops you for no reason, the company won't pay for procedures, etc, vs Obamacare, set price tiers, everybody pays the same amount, the policy can't be cancelled, and overall, money is saved, more people save more money and hospitals don't have a 25-40% deadbeat clients list, people that use emergency services and don't pay, the whole medical industry needs to be monetized, get rid of the graft, well, obamacare was a good first step.

Obamacare set price levels it paid hospitals, they complied, in states that adopted it, everywhere else it's still the Wild West, you seem to be ignoring the facts, obamacare set price tiers for insurance wanted and set prices paid for procedures, it worked, until November of 16', and it's the number one topic on the minds of voters, well, voters with minds.
I'm not ignoring any facts.

The problem is that mandated insurance happened BEFORE a fix to keep the hospitals and their profiteering under control.

Hospitals(not all) have long been the epicenter of slums. They move in, take over, hostility mind you, but under the radar. I had a paper route when I was a teen for extra money while going to HS. The amount of "suspicious" house fires were amazing. In 20 years time several city blocks, once residential were leveled for the hospital all the while the area surrounding it nothing but slums.

I'm glad healthcare was enacted, I'm disappointed in the way it was orchestrated to say the least.
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Last edited by Mort; January 22nd, 2020 at 10:55 AM.
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