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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old April 15th, 2019, 08:08 PM   #21
BigFoot
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Originally Posted by ursle View Post
Beginning skaters use harder cushions, advanced skaters use softer cushions
I did the opposite. I started on soft and medium cushions, then went to hard cushions as my skating improved. There were a couple of reasons for it. I liked the firm power transfer, stability, more solid hockey stops, and no wobble at high speed. Ease of turning wasnít a problem because I turn the same way as when I skated on in-lines or ice skates, which, of course, donít have cushions Ė go back on your heal, lean, point toe where you want to go. Iím a DA10į red cushion guy now. I tried DA45 and hated them. Even with nylon, metal washers, wood (yes, wood) with red cushions. No dice. Too turny and unstable. It took tremendous concentration and effort to avoid the speed wobble, and that mainly required me to stay below 10-12 MPH. But I think Mr. Rufus got it right: use what you like. Whatever blows your skirt up.

BTW, totally off-topic, but is anyone else enjoying the NHL playoffs? Fastest game in sports, hand-to-hand combat, and awesome skating skills. It has it all. Iím pulling for the Columbus Blue Jackets. Three solid wins against Division leading Tampa Bay Lightning. Go Jackets!
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Old April 16th, 2019, 12:55 AM   #22
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I did the opposite. I started on soft and medium cushions, then went to hard cushions as my skating improved. There were a couple of reasons for it. I liked the firm power transfer, stability, more solid hockey stops, and no wobble at high speed. Ease of turning wasnít a problem because I turn the same way as when I skated on in-lines or ice skates, which, of course, donít have cushions Ė go back on your heal, lean, point toe where you want to go. Iím a DA10į red cushion guy now. I tried DA45 and hated them. Even with nylon, metal washers, wood (yes, wood) with red cushions. No dice. Too turny and unstable. It took tremendous concentration and effort to avoid the speed wobble, and that mainly required me to stay below 10-12 MPH. But I think Mr. Rufus got it right: use what you like. Whatever blows your skirt up.

BTW, totally off-topic, but is anyone else enjoying the NHL playoffs? Fastest game in sports, hand-to-hand combat, and awesome skating skills. It has it all. Iím pulling for the Columbus Blue Jackets. Three solid wins against Division leading Tampa Bay Lightning. Go Jackets!
Pointing the toe. Yep, I do that. In fact lifting axles, front or rear is a big part of my skating. And lifting one axle means being only on the other. And a stiffer cushion is helpful in those situations.

In the long and annoying saga of my bad knees and ankle, I stopped striding. Or ever being on ONE skate. Like, EVER. I sticky skate. Keep both feet down at all times. That is not to say I keep all four axles down though. I freak some people out. I catch them watching my feet. They never leave the ground, and a lot of my axle lifts are pretty subtle. I alternate using the turning power of DA45 and axle tricks almost 50/50. If *I* went to red cushions, I would need to do more axle stuff, as the DA45 turning would be diminished. But I could certainly get by. The question is, would I like the different dynamic of red cushions. Probably would for a while. And then I'd change back to a purple, or yellow.

As for hockey, never did get into it. I used to like basketball a lot, and I kind of wanted to get plugged into March Madness, but did not. Been bike riding a lot, and reading about bike riding a lot. At this rate, I may get into watching the tour de France.
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Old April 16th, 2019, 04:36 PM   #23
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... no wobble at high speed.
If you have wobbles at high speed you don't have the brain/muscle training that allows full use of soft cushions. A LOT of people hate on soft cushions for this exact reason.

You can't just put soft cushions on and skate and expect good results.

It usually goes like this:

* Find the point with a cushion combination (doesn't matter, same top and bottom, different top and bottom, cupped or flat retainers, grease whatever...) where you wobble at speed. Tighten the action to where the wobble just stops and skate.

* Next week loosen the action until the wobble starts and then tighten a bit till it just stops. Each time you should be able to control the wobble while the skate has more action.

* Repeat the above working your way to softer cushions.You never want the cushions so tight they bulge or so loose the truck is not controlled by the cushions. With some people you might need to use a split cushion configuration to achieve this. Usually harder on top and softer on the bottom before having the same (softer) hardness top and bottom. That is what I had to do back in my Roll Line days.

This is not a short or fast process. For most it takes months. If you do this on a low action plate you will likely have to repeat at least part of it if you go to a higher action plate like a DA45. Most would rather say "that doesn't work for me" or "I tried it and it sucked" than do the work. I hear that all the time but seldom from someone that took the time to train themselves. Usually it's the opposite, "I finally took the time and WOW!"

The advantages of soft cushions are not only better maneuverability but increased traction in turns since you put more longitudinal urethane on the floor faster. In many cases you can use a harder wheel with softer cushions since there won't be as much slippage.


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But I think Mr. Rufus got it right: use what you like. Whatever blows your skirt up.
That is good as far as it goes but unless you share and understand other ideas there is little point of a forum for discussion.

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Last edited by wired; April 16th, 2019 at 05:45 PM.
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Old April 16th, 2019, 04:38 PM   #24
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I stopped striding. Or ever being on ONE skate. Like, EVER.
Kinda hard to develop much power that way...

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Old April 21st, 2019, 12:57 AM   #25
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Firmer cushions have a greater tendency to reset to neutral at higher speeds,

They do, but is that desirable? I run soft cushions and my plates return to neutral when I tell them to. There's nothing restricting or affecting that. After all, who's in charge, my skates or me?



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I haven't bothered to go down from 80A ... They will carve a tighter circle than I have grip for...

Because your suspension runs out of compliance, and the wheel lifts.


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Silly putty. Jam skaters, of which I am not one, are arguably some of the best and most advanced skaters going. They use 10 degree plates and hard cushions. So there goes the soft cushion theory.

While jam skaters are generally very skilled at what they do, they don't "skate" in the conventional sense, so not really a fair comparison. They typically run long plates, soft wheels, hard suspensions because the type of static dance moves they do benefits from it.
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Old April 21st, 2019, 04:13 AM   #26
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Purples have more snapback

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They do, but is that desirable? I run soft cushions and my plates return to neutral when I tell them to. There's nothing restricting or affecting that. After all, who's in charge, my skates or me?

Skates are never "in charge", but this is about different cushions and how they respond. And to answer the question you floated is, yes, it is desirable.... to me. The guy who started the thread. Not saying anyone else needs to like it.


Because your suspension runs out of compliance, and the wheel lifts.

Here is another good point. I USE that end of compliance. I rather get a kick out of playing with the end of compliance. And after not having it happen sooner, I liked it happening sooner. It was different. Fun.

While jam skaters are generally very skilled at what they do, they don't "skate" in the conventional sense, so not really a fair comparison. They typically run long plates, soft wheels, hard suspensions because the type of static dance moves they do benefits from it.
Kind of splitting hairs here. I would say, and have long said, that, depending on the skater of course, jam skaters do stuff that is not skating. But the skating stuff they do do is pretty impressive. I forget the guys' name, but there was an extraordinary guy I'd see from time to time around LA. Fantastic skater. I know a guy now who is a very good jam skater.

And then you actually back my point up with, "long plates, soft wheels, hard suspensions because the type of static dance moves they do benefits from it." Their setup is used because it makes what they do easier. Purples helped my get to the loss of compliance quicker, which I liked.

Having developed single axle skills over the years, I don't have to depend on DA45 for turning. I like the turning (still), I use it, but it is not the only thing *I* do as a skater. So yeah. I liked the purples. Might like some reds too.
The end of compliance will happen faster than the purples. I might like playing with that too.
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Old April 21st, 2019, 06:16 AM   #27
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Here is another good point. I USE that end of compliance. I rather get a kick out of playing with the end of compliance. And after not having it happen sooner, I liked it happening sooner. It was different. Fun.
You didn't really understand what dvw was saying. His point was Mort is running out of traction because his wheels were lifting and leaving less urethane on the floor to prevent slippage. Not desirable, and not what you have been talking about

We have already established that you haven't taken the time or have the skills to use soft cushions so all you are doing is making up stuff to try and be "right".

What ever you want to do for your chuckles is fine. Just don't go around acting like it's the end all be all when you don't even know what is possible.

Reminds me of kids that had Stingray type bikes and claimed they were faster than my old 3 speed with 26" wheels. I'd run them to death any day of the week. They didn't have any idea how bicycles actually worked.

Later there were guys that had big engine jacked up muscle cars. None of them could keep up on a twisty road with a Vega or Corvair being driven instead of pointed. Suspension and skills can make up for a lot of horsepower if the goal isn't in a straight line.

Everyone was having fun until their bubble got popped. In many cases they just went back to others that had the same setups and congratulated each other on their skills and wonderful equipment. Others actually learned something and modified their equipment or skill set to be more versatile.

Three people here that actually have a clue have tried to help you understand what is actually going on but you continue...


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Old April 21st, 2019, 08:17 AM   #28
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They do, but is that desirable? I run soft cushions and my plates return to neutral when I tell them to. There's nothing restricting or affecting that. After all, who's in charge, my skates or me?






Because your suspension runs out of compliance, and the wheel lifts.

if anything wheels lift due to the axles being crap, not the suspension being too resistant for the turns I make.I can easily actuate my trucks with a gentle push of my thumb, but when I lean over the outer bearing isnt supported like it should be. Recently though, I got this fixed however the new axles I have installed are even smaller OD, so now its 7.88 instead of 7.94 , while the wheels are held more level they now have more wiggle room >.> grip is very slightly better now until the traction breaks and the wheels vibrate in a slide.



While jam skaters are generally very skilled at what they do, they don't "skate" in the conventional sense, so not really a fair comparison. They typically run long plates, soft wheels, hard suspensions because the type of static dance moves they do benefits from it.
I'd agree that by my sense of "skating" jam skaters cant touch the group I roll with around the floor.

Shuffle skaters have better at speed skill, while jam skaters have better low speed moves as agility goes.

Then you have people like us that do everything, and the skill diversity makes us better than either of them 99.9% of the time. Always good to have a big bag of tricks not just 1 trump card


Anywho back to suspensions, if I skated slower and need more compliant suspension to make a turn, maybe.. but I skate most of my laps on the far outside where I dont need to make a bunch of ultra tight circles. My grip isn't diminished for the speed and radius I am skating 99.9% of the time. If it was then when I take out my stabilization pins in my gen1 arius trucks , I'd gain a bit of grip when cornering, but I dont.

This may change if I ever get better axles where they dont allow as much wheel deflection, then the suspension compliance may begin to factor in. As of now, mine does not. Also the arius doesnt exactly behave the same as a traditional kingpin plate when the cushions are stiffer either.
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 01:03 AM   #29
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I like the turning (still), I use it, but it is not the only thing *I* do as a skater. So yeah.

Horses for courses. There is no One True Answer.
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 01:08 AM   #30
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if anything wheels lift due to the axles being crap, not the suspension being too resistant for the turns I make.I can easily actuate my trucks with a gentle push of my thumb, but when I lean over the outer bearing isnt supported like it should be.
Well if your axles are the softest part of the suspension....


Put some A1 axles in there. That won't be a problem any more.
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 04:24 AM   #31
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Well if your axles are the softest part of the suspension....


Put some A1 axles in there. That won't be a problem any more.
It's not the rigidity that is the problem. Its end play due to the OD of the axle dipping at the threads. I did get some A1 axles in there. And the OD of them went from stock @ 7.94mm to a1 axles at 7.88mm or so. Even with the diameter drop though the a1 axles have decent grip.

Stock axles have 7.94 shoulder for a length of 16mm, where they dip down to 7.3 to 7.5mm this makes the wheel able to deflect and rattle about with excessive end play.

The A1 axles I got in the trucks I swapped out 2 weeks ago have about 22mm of shoulder before the threads, so the outer bearing cant move out of the same vertical plane as the inner bearing like in the stock setup.

What I really need is a 7.98mm OD axle that has a total smooth shaft length of 90mm (2x 22mm shoulders before the threading and, 46mm trucks width )



My press fit brass axis pin sleeves are the softest part of my suspension. Well ignoring the wheels urethane and the boot.
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