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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old June 8th, 2018, 12:25 AM   #21
netplaceus
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Smile Update

I just skated on the new corrected alignment (of-set) as opposed to my messed up alignment that was not even midline, much more toward inside edges.

OMG so much better and I skate so much easier! The interesting thing is that I adapted to the weird setup and was right in there with all the other intermediate/advanced skaters. After 4 hours of skating with the correct alignment I felt great and could do almost everything I did before, except my crazy spinstop.

It appears to have been partly enabled by my misalignment! it was the only thing I did better than anyone else, my super power. It still works, but not anywhere near as tight as I made it before. I could stop really fast in a tight little circle and end up stopping like 8 inches looking someone eye to eye. Doing it in the a really small circle seems impossible now. Maybe with time, but I don't think so. Oh well, good trade off. My signature move, was not skill, just messed up skates!

Pain? Don't know yet, But not in the same spot anyway.
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Old June 8th, 2018, 11:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by netplaceus View Post
I just skated on the new corrected alignment (of-set) as opposed to my messed up alignment that was not even midline, much more toward inside edges.

OMG so much better and I skate so much easier! The interesting thing is that I adapted to the weird setup and was right in there with all the other intermediate/advanced skaters. After 4 hours of skating with the correct alignment I felt great and could do almost everything I did before, except my crazy spinstop.

It appears to have been partly enabled by my misalignment! it was the only thing I did better than anyone else, my super power. It still works, but not anywhere near as tight as I made it before. I could stop really fast in a tight little circle and end up stopping like 8 inches looking someone eye to eye. Doing it in the a really small circle seems impossible now. Maybe with time, but I don't think so. Oh well, good trade off. My signature move, was not skill, just messed up skates!

Pain? Don't know yet, But not in the same spot anyway.
When I skated inlines, offset could put the hurt on you. The taller the setup the worse it was. Quads being as low as they are, can make offset much easier to handle. Lets us know how it goes after a few sessions.
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Old June 9th, 2018, 12:25 AM   #23
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When I skated inlines, offset could put the hurt on you. The taller the setup the worse it was. Quads being as low as they are, can make offset much easier to handle. Lets us know how it goes after a few sessions.

I will thanks! When these boots wear out and I replace someday, I going experiment (if not sooner if pain continues), I need to be really used to the new setup before I can compare. My problem was likely (will see) because shop set my midline at the center stitching of the boot. So it was WAY inward.
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Old June 9th, 2018, 01:18 AM   #24
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Once again....
Inline sates and ice skates are mounted in the center, there’s no offset, the skater tips them and balances.

Roller skates are offset.

Offset.....roller skates
Centered.....inline and ice skates.
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Old June 9th, 2018, 06:05 PM   #25
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When I skated inlines, offset could put the hurt on you. The taller the setup the worse it was. Quads being as low as they are, can make offset much easier to handle. Lets us know how it goes after a few sessions.

I will thanks! When these boots wear out and I replace someday, I going experiment (if not sooner if pain continues), I need to be really used to the new setup before I can compare. My problem was likely (will see) because shop set my midline at the center stitching of the boot. So it was WAY inward.
Got a before/after shot of the mounting holes or plate alignments? Sounds like it was ridiculously inside.

There's probably lots of mounts out there that could stand an 1/8th inch correction. Many times people only look at the soles of the boots, and not how the actual boot is attached to said some. Which can cause improper centering, or offsets.

Inlines now have it easy usually. Fully adjustable frames and all that. Quads, lol not so much. While they can be set up for slotting in a boot, it isn't always a good practice as things could slide much easier, or at least it seems like that.
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Old June 9th, 2018, 09:18 PM   #26
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Got a before/after shot of the mounting holes or plate alignments? Sounds like it was ridiculously inside.

There's probably lots of mounts out there that could stand an 1/8th inch correction. Many times people only look at the soles of the boots, and not how the actual boot is attached to said some. Which can cause improper centering, or offsets.

Inlines now have it easy usually. Fully adjustable frames and all that. Quads, lol not so much. While they can be set up for slotting in a boot, it isn't always a good practice as things could slide much easier, or at least it seems like that.
Not saying it doesn't happen but I have never had my plates slip with the 2 bolt slotted mounting. ON the other hand not many of us skating with this type of plate on a quad either I have had them come loose on inlines but maybe I learned from that and it hasn't happened yet. Yes the slots in the boots make is so easy, If I take the boots off and move the plates to my other boots I put tape on the bottom of the boot on both sides of the existing plates so that they plate can be lined right up during re-installation.
The only issue I have had is I split one of the aluminum nuts in the boot sole once.
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Old June 10th, 2018, 01:24 AM   #27
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flikr.
Ha Ha! Now you see it now you don't...
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Old June 10th, 2018, 03:18 AM   #28
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Got a before/after shot of the mounting holes or plate alignments? Sounds like it was ridiculously inside.

There's probably lots of mounts out there that could stand an 1/8th inch correction. Many times people only look at the soles of the boots, and not how the actual boot is attached to said some. Which can cause improper centering, or offsets.

Inlines now have it easy usually. Fully adjustable frames and all that. Quads, lol not so much. While they can be set up for slotting in a boot, it isn't always a good practice as things could slide much easier, or at least it seems like that.
It was WAY off (to inside of mid), but what I find VERY interesting is that I just adapted to it. Which is why I find it really hard to believe deciding to not "offset" your skates is the end of the world that some make it out to be. Like a short forward (or fill in the blank with your mod!) you lose something and you gain something else. It's part science, part art. I think skaters could do far worse with cushions that are very soft or very hard. But many people adapt and are able to enjoy the benefits of a different configuration. Some I'm like, "OMG, how can you skate with that!" But that's how it works.

So let the proclamations of what is right, wrong, and proper come as they may. I adamantly believe that the 2 or 3 mm off-set to the outside OR not is well within artistic choice, there are pros and cons to both, that IS the nature of skating. Whether or not one prefers it, dislikes it or can't tell the difference will always be left to the individual skater. What is proper or outright wrong I guess will be decided my the skating community, manufactures, skate shops, etc. Obviously there is not a clear consensus.

All I know for sure at this point is that both configurations are widely used whether people are aware of it or not. It takes very little research to verify that last statement. I believe the two setups still falls safely in the realm of artistic choice, even if most people never know which one they received.
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Old December 4th, 2018, 04:46 AM   #29
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Let’s try and get on the same page here.

Ice and inline skates are mounted one way and roller skates slightly differently.

Ice and inline skates are centered under the boot.

Roller skates are offset to the outside of the foot.

With roller skates...the heel is centered, the front of the boot is not centered, the front is aimed at the spot or point between the second and third toe, this is sin city skates description, gleamed from Dave VanBelleghem...

To find the center line, first mark
the middle of the heel, in back. Then find the widest part of the boot, around the ball of the foot, and mark the midpoint there. Another way to mark the front center point is to put the boot on and find the point in between your second and third toe, then mark that spot. Draw a line across those points, from the heel to the toe.
Use this as a guide for the centering of your plate. When you do mount your plate, the front of the plate should not point to the exact middle or apex of the front, but more between the second and third toes.


So...when mounted properly, rollerskates are not centered but slightly offset.

Ice and inline skates are centered.

Yes there are some skatelog members that center their roller skates, well, they say they center them, chances are they don’t understand what it is they do

Why are rollerskates slightly offset?

Ice and inline skates are centered, the skater is balanced as they tip the skates and push to gain momentum.
Roller skates are slightly offset to give the skater proper balance as they manipulate their ankles to push against The skates as they accelerate.
99% of the human population finds that offsetting the plates slightly gives proper balance while roller skating.
Unfortunately, many rental rinks don’t mount the plates properly and the skaters on those skates are at a disadvantage.

Simply a case of “if you don’t mind it doesn’t matter

So, if you mount roller skates properly they are offset, don’t make the mistake of calling an offset mount “Centered”

So I was curious what the real truth was about this was and I emailed Roll-line and I was put in contact with their marketing manager; competitive division. ursle, you were essentially correct, although your reasons for being correct are different.

Turns out it has absolutely nothing to do with balance. It's was and still is "done to maximize the push action while preparing for the jumps, because mounting like this the toe stop is in the most correct position." More on the toe stop latter.

Push action? This is a story about LEVERAGE not balance. "Pushing out laterally from your body allows for the greatest amount of force.
Pushing out at an angle behind you becomes more difficult as that angle increases. So this tiny change toward the outside edge allows for a small increase in power because you can push longer laterally in the beginning of the push. You're in the sweet zone a little longer."

In other words because your skates are slightly offset to the outside you can start your push at a more optimum position that allows for greater leverage (sonner).

This has nothing to do with balance, it was and is done to increase power for jumps, etc. I would imagine, if anything, this creates a tiny "imbalance" that you compensate for, but it's a good trade off.

Derby skaters are taught push off from behind in a very different manor, this may (?) be why you see the 3mm offset less in derby skaters (if, in fact, that statement is even true), I don't know much about derby.

He did not explain more about the toe stop position and I did not ask. However, I noticed my Roll-Line Energy plate toe stop is offset to the outside edge. The toe stop is actually threaded at an angle (toward outside edge) into the plate. Interesting.

As for pain in some skaters, I'm not surprised. Offsetting hits you at a different angle, one that allows for MORE force on your ankles, feet.

I tried both configurations on some old boots and in my opinion what Roll-Line said about push action was true! It was a small difference, but it felt as if the beginning of my pushes were more effective, a little more power. But not a big deal, not worth pain for sure!

If anyone else out there experimented with the "3mm offset and no offset" let us know. Love to know how it felt to you.

PS:

I have 3 pairs of skates and I checked the alignment of all of them. I did the " between the second and third toe" mark and was shocked that it lined up perfectly with my center mark obtained from "dividing widest point" I did a long time ago.

I expected it to be close, but it was right on the original pencil marks! So to those of you who don't like the other method this seems to work very well too, at least with my feet anyway. I would do both, it's so easy.
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Old December 4th, 2018, 02:34 PM   #30
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So I was curious what the real truth was about this was and I emailed Roll-line and I was put in contact with their marketing manager; competitive division. ursle, you were essentially correct, although your reasons for being correct are different.

Turns out it has absolutely nothing to do with balance. It's was and still is "done to maximize the push action while preparing for the jumps, because mounting like this the toe stop is in the most correct position." More on the toe stop latter.

Push action? This is a story about LEVERAGE not balance. "Pushing out laterally from your body allows for the greatest amount of force.
Pushing out at an angle behind you becomes more difficult as that angle increases. So this tiny change toward the outside edge allows for a small increase in power because you can push longer laterally in the beginning of the push. You're in the sweet zone a little longer."

I noticed my Roll-Line Energy plate toe stop is offset to the outside edge. The toe stop is actually threaded at an angle (toward outside edge) into the plate. Interesting.

"Obviously, your energy plates are mounted backwards, the left plate toe stop is offset toward the toe, the right plate toestop is also offset toward the toe, if both plates are offset to the same direction you have a mismatched set of plates"

If anyone else out there experimented with the "3mm offset and no offset" let us know. Love to know how it felt to you.

PS:

I have 3 pairs of skates and I checked the alignment of all of them. I did the " between the second and third toe" mark and was shocked that it lined up perfectly with my center mark obtained from "dividing widest point" I did a long time ago.

I expected it to be close, but it was right on the original pencil marks! So to those of you who don't like the other method this seems to work very well too, at least with my feet anyway. I would do both, it's so easy.
The end justifies the means, you agree, offsetting the plate to the outside of the foot works best.

Of the three sets of used skates I've bought, two Oberhammer and one Riedel, all three had the plates mounted centered to the foot not the boot, not offset, so obviously, many people have no idea what they're doing when mounting plates to skates.

Roll-Line USA is a subsidiary of Roll-Line, I'd ask the engineer's at Roll-Line Italy any technical questions, not that a salesman in the US isn't qualified, chances are he didn't engineer any Roll-Line products.
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Old December 5th, 2018, 02:51 AM   #31
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"I noticed my Roll-Line Energy plate toe stop is offset to the outside edge. The toe stop is actually threaded at an angle (toward outside edge) into the plate. Interesting."

Yes, you are correct, sharp of you to notice! I met to say inside edge.
Very few shops know (us anyway) that RL's toe stops have a left and right side, Sinistra & destra.

But I was not sure why they did that and did not ask with a follow up question. However, after you pointed out my error I think I know why, it all makes sense now.

I think(?) this was done because the plate WILL BE mounted off centered that 3mm to outside and the toe stop hole is drilled offset 3mm to the inside and puts the toe stop back on the midline. What do you think? When I look at my skate it looks like the two cancel each other out perfectly.

However, I noted my outdoor skates with Avanti plates do not have the toe stops holes drilled offset. I don't know why, maybe because it is not know well or used much as an artistic plate? Maybe it's important to have the toe stops on the midline for jumps, etc. Seems logical, but I don't know for sure. Artistic skating is next to dead here in the US But in Italy it's HUGE!

By the way the person I talked to was not a US rep. I emailed RL's main offices in Italy and was put in contact with RL's marketing manager. They will just forward your question to the best person qualified to answer it. I have always received awesome customer service, they are very professional.

I don't think the engineers know much about skating, they know how to manufacture stuff, that is what they do. The knowledge is mostly with the marketing manager whose job it is to supply what works and what the market wants based on feedback and research.

I would have just pasted the email, but for whatever reason they mark the email as confidential and ask you not to forward or post it.
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Old December 6th, 2018, 10:48 PM   #32
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It is the proper way to mount a plate. If you left it straight, the outside of the foot would have too much power. Outside edging easy, but inside edging very hard. Moving the plate out changes the leverage giving the ball of the foot more power to inside edge.
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Old December 7th, 2018, 01:09 AM   #33
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It is the proper way to mount a plate. If you left it straight, the outside of the foot would have too much power. Outside edging easy, but inside edging very hard. Moving the plate out changes the leverage giving the ball of the foot more power to inside edge.
This sounds good too! I don't think I will every confidently feel I know the answer for sure myself.. Only thing I am sure of is the effect is very small, not a big deal either way. Most manufacturers seem to do it off centered and those into artistic skating. I skate at 4 different ranks here in Southern California, none of them offset. But that means nothing, just culture I guess.
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Old December 7th, 2018, 01:23 PM   #34
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This sounds good too! I don't think I will every confidently feel I know the answer for sure myself.. Only thing I am sure of is the effect is very small, not a big deal either way. Most manufacturers seem to do it off centered and those into artistic skating. I skate at 4 different ranks here in Southern California, none of them offset. But that means nothing, just culture I guess.
This question was run through the mill, more than once, 5, 6 years ago. It is as simple as leverage. The ball of the foot is the most powerful POINT on your foot. Well, aside from the heel, but that is in the back. But compare the ball to the side of your foot, and you'll find, the ball is weak by comparison. Therefore, to get proper balance in a skate, you need to give the ball a little more power while you take some power from the side of the foot.

A lot of package skates have a "straight" mount. No offset. This is, presumably, to make it easy for any schlep to mount a plate. A lot of low end boots have marks to mark the center. Line up the centers, and you're done. I skated several "straight" mounts. So I know, you can't edge properly. You can outside edge all day. But inside.... barely if at all. Then when I got a skate with a proper mount, and a good metal plate. It was like, cue the Angels singing. It was a whole new world. I could actually DO all of the stuff that was impossible before.
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Old December 8th, 2018, 03:02 AM   #35
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Default About edges.

Don't forget that the ankle articulates easier for an outside edge than it does an inside edge. Using the blade of your foot(outside edge) is easy. Using the inside edge is harder, but typically one doesn't need that much leverage on the inside.

Compared to most "standard" mounts mine is heel out and toe in by a very small amount on each end. It helps me do a lot of things for longer periods of time that would typically be stressful on my feet. So the way myself and others with a super long or forward wheelbase skate find it better than a "traditional" mount. This alignment would likely suck with shorter wheelbases(front axle farther back.)

Deviating from a traditional plate placement if you know the pros and cons of it may work out well. Much like choosing a plate that is "too long", or "too short" by some people's viewpoints.
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