S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Speed Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old June 25th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #1
tjyven
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
Default MG Custom

Anyone here know anything about the brand MG Custom? Just saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHSTOqhYdAk&t=3s
Looks good but would be interesting to know if anyone tried them.

If anyone tried Sierra it would also be interesting to get a review of them.
tjyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 01:18 AM   #2
shesk8
Senior Member
 
shesk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
Posts: 1,020
Default

that's interesting.... but, there is a lot missing there that'd have me runnin' to the stock shelf. Did you notice there is no consideration for the arch? Nor any heel lift provided, the skater was molded flat-footed. How do you suppose they factor in the 10mm* pitch between heel and toe mounts? And, the toe lift seemed rather arbitrary. Most boots are 10-11mm pitch between heel and toe mount blocks. Some boot makers give option to drop the pitch a little lower at the heel(to 7mm).
__________________
From Salt Lake City where ice meets inline...
Email: sales@theskatenowshop.com
www.theskatenowshop.com
shesk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 12:51 PM   #3
kufman
Senior Member
 
kufman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,086
Default

In my opinion, he makes the same mistakes that most of the custom boot makers make.

1. Strict alignment of the leg to be perpendicular to the ground. Not everybody is built like this especially if you have bowed legs. Having boots built to be straight up and down when you legs don't go that way is a disaster.

2. The mold is basically destroyed when it is taken off the foot. The ankle shape and angle at not preserved.

3. No arch as mentioned above.

4. Super tight toe box is not good for everyone. The narrower the foot bed, the less stability you will have.

5. Going around the ankle bone very tightly with carbon is just a bad idea. The ankle is a joint and needs to be able to move. At least the mold was done with body weight on the foot so that the ankle is as low as it would be normally. Boot makers that don't have you put weight on the foot as it is being molded usually get this wrong and the result is massive pain as the carbon digs into the bottom of the ankle bone.
kufman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2017, 09:23 PM   #4
tjyven
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
Default

Thanks for your insights!

Found this video from Sierra doing molds but maybe to bad quality to judge if they do them properly?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuHQNAZrYO0
tjyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2017, 10:10 PM   #5
tjyven
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
Default

Found this one also, better quality and shorter!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=275wXtmBx4g
tjyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2017, 05:38 PM   #6
Vadim
Junior Member
 
Vadim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Saint Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shesk8 View Post
Nor any heel lift provided, the skater was molded flat-footed. How do you suppose they factor in the 10mm* pitch between heel and toe mounts? And, the toe lift seemed rather arbitrary.
AFAIK this is the way they take molds for BIKE boots.
Vadim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2017, 01:45 PM   #7
kufman
Senior Member
 
kufman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim View Post
AFAIK this is the way they take molds for BIKE boots.
Bike boots only have 1 point of contact (under the ball of the boot) and they don't have support going up the ankles so built in pitch isn't very important. It is a good point that maybe some of there inline boot makers are actually bike boot makers and don't know any better.
kufman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2017, 06:17 PM   #8
evilzzz
Senior Member
 
evilzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London UK
Posts: 853
Talking

Well.. it kinda makes sense to me when you consider that molds are normally taken on a flat surface, but when the boot is constructed it has ~7mm of pitch in it.
you also need to consider that if you take the molds with any sort of moderate ankle bent and you boots are cast with that shape, what happens when you do stand upright, or your leg is fully extended at the end of your strikes? There will be pressure on the achilles and heel and your foot will be pushed further forward in the boot.

Intuitively I would say that you should have your ankles only slightly bent when taking molds - not bolt upright, but certainly not in the skating position.
__________________
http://enduranceskating.com
evilzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2017, 10:20 PM   #9
sxevegan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 475
Default

Here is how Dave Simmons (Simmons Racing) does his casting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4aNd6UAfh0
sxevegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 14th, 2017, 10:50 PM   #10
kufman
Senior Member
 
kufman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sxevegan View Post
Here is how Dave Simmons (Simmons Racing) does his casting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4aNd6UAfh0
My personal opinion (I own a pair of his customs) is that Dave makes a few mistakes too.

1. Little weight on feet results in ankle pockets being too high which causes pain on the bottom of the ankle bone. Also results in the incorrect arch height, foot length, and foot width.

2. Forced leg alignment it not correct for everyone. People with bowed legs will not skate with their knees inline with their big toes.

3. Tightly wrapped plaster around toes and little weight on foot results in too narrow of a foot bed.

4. No wedging to create 10mm pitch. Simmons doesn't do 10mm pitch anyway, usually 5 to 7 unless you request otherwise, but there should be something under there.

5. Cast gets damaged when foot is removed. May result in goofy ankle angles.

Again, just my opinion from experience.
kufman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 12:34 PM   #11
tjyven
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kufman View Post
My personal opinion (I own a pair of his customs) is that Dave makes a few mistakes too.

1. Little weight on feet results in ankle pockets being too high which causes pain on the bottom of the ankle bone. Also results in the incorrect arch height, foot length, and foot width.

2. Forced leg alignment it not correct for everyone. People with bowed legs will not skate with their knees inline with their big toes.

3. Tightly wrapped plaster around toes and little weight on foot results in too narrow of a foot bed.

4. No wedging to create 10mm pitch. Simmons doesn't do 10mm pitch anyway, usually 5 to 7 unless you request otherwise, but there should be something under there.

5. Cast gets damaged when foot is removed. May result in goofy ankle angles.

Again, just my opinion from experience.

Interesting insights Kufman! Have you seen anyone doing casting the way you think it should be done?
tjyven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2017, 01:45 PM   #12
kufman
Senior Member
 
kufman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjyven View Post
Interesting insights Kufman! Have you seen anyone doing casting the way you think it should be done?
Ok, here is my list.

Kaiser - Most detailed molds. Separate mold for the bottom of the foot. Uses the same material that dentists use when they make impression of your teeth. Can't remember if he uses full body weight or forced alignment of the knee. His boots are more love'em of hate'em as far as I can tell.

Brad Harper (EdgeTek) - Two piece molds with wedge I believe. I don't think he uses full body weight and he forces the leg alignment.

Bont - This is usually done as a self casting unless you live near a rep. The instructions recommend standing on a folded up towel with body weight. I don't recall whether or not it says to force align the leg. The down side is that you have to cut the mold off. On the bright side, it isn't plaster but rather a resin soaked sock.

McDaniel - Two piece molds that don't have to be cut off. Soft wedge under foot to get pitch and arch. Full body weight. Unfortunately, boot quality is bad and fall apart quickly. I don't think he makes boot anymore

Simmons - See Above

Pinnacle - Good idea for molding as he uses vacuum to pull the cast around the foot. I believe he uses a wedge under the foot. Uses at least partial body weight. Does force leg alignment and molds have to be cut off.

A couple ideas that I don't believe anybody does.

-Measure achilles tendon angle with respect to vertical and use to place mounting blocks at proper angle. Not everyone's legs are straight vertical.

-Support boots from the bottom using more 3-d shaping to the carbon and don't wrap carbon up next to ball of the foot or pinky toe (soft toe box).

-Use some padding around ankle bone and to the sides of the achilles tendon instead of straight carbon. The foot needs to be able change shape to some degree while you skate.
kufman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2017, 09:54 PM   #13
ese002
Senior Member
 
ese002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kufman View Post
A couple ideas that I don't believe anybody does.

-Measure achilles tendon angle with respect to vertical and use to place mounting blocks at proper angle. Not everyone's legs are straight vertical.
That would be good. It should not be necessary to use wedges with a custom boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kufman View Post
-Support boots from the bottom using more 3-d shaping to the carbon and don't wrap carbon up next to ball of the foot or pinky toe (soft toe box).
The soft toe box is how boots were always made until the more recent "carbon bowl" approach took over. Early difficulties with forefoot discomfort in my Pinnacle Elites made me think I should have saved not just money but also my feet if I chosen to get RT's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kufman View Post
-Use some padding around ankle bone and to the sides of the achilles tendon instead of straight carbon. The foot needs to be able change shape to some degree while you skate.
Older boots, including my Wolfs, often had a notch with padding but no carbon over the achilles. Achilles pillows seem to be out of fashion these days.
ese002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:02 PM   #14
BG's Dad
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 7
Default How long before 3D foot scans

I wonder how long before scans and 3D printers will be used for making boots? I believe I saw a picture of Kaiser making a foot bed mold with the client on their stomach and their knees bent, feet in the air. I would guess the alginate oozes between the toes by gravity.
BG's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:40 PM   #15
Spencer.Berry
Senior Member
 
Spencer.Berry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 361
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BG's Dad View Post
I wonder how long before scans and 3D printers will be used for making boots? I believe I saw a picture of Kaiser making a foot bed mold with the client on their stomach and their knees bent, feet in the air. I would guess the alginate oozes between the toes by gravity.
http://www.inlineplanet.com/forum/vi...c.php?=&p=4561
Spencer.Berry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:21 PM   #16
kufman
Senior Member
 
kufman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BG's Dad View Post
I wonder how long before scans and 3D printers will be used for making boots? I believe I saw a picture of Kaiser making a foot bed mold with the client on their stomach and their knees bent, feet in the air. I would guess the alginate oozes between the toes by gravity.
Ya, that part of his process probably isn't good as you don't have weight on the arches of your feet (i.e. the arches of the boots will be too tall). I forgot that he did the bottoms of the feet that way.
kufman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 11:00 AM   #17
BG's Dad
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer.Berry View Post
Wow, 11 years ago. Still I can envision a boot made with a 3D printer that would be more of a skeleton rather than a conventional boot.
BG's Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.