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Old March 24th, 2016, 03:41 PM   #1
Doc Sk8
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Thumbs up First ride, Arius Platinum trucks.

Spent about an hour on them last night. I need to sort my thoughts a bit more before I go into details, but definitely a step in the right direction.

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Old March 24th, 2016, 05:20 PM   #2
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One person at our rink has that one, and all he'll say is he would not ever go back to a traditional plate/truck set up. But he really doesn't say why.
And he is not my size so I didn't ask to try them.

I am looking forward to your future posts on this because that design intrigues me.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 05:44 PM   #3
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Also curious about the advancements they have made for this model. Very interested in this and future versions.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #4
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Default Don't get too excited..

The new trucks are an improvement. As far as advances?? Folks have been trying to make this design work since the 1880s. Note: I said trying?? There are mechanical constraints that will never be overcome in this design. Note the referenced patents in the Dan Miller's patent. 08550473

I find it amusing how many folks on them are saying they will never switch back. Make sure you look @ what they were on before they switched. I have talked to only 3 other sk8rs that have this plate. One is not satisfied and going for an Avenger. Another?? Well she is on Riedell's Super Star page. Lastly, one has never had any other high end plate to compare it to. Does not make for much of a comparison.

I have run into way too many folks that have had 2 pair of sk8s in their life and swear the sk8s they are on now are the best thing on the planet. AND...They make no bones about spreading the word.

The new trucks are a step in the right direct as they address the constraint of the cushion issue to some degree. The action while still is not perfect is better. Now I'll drop a hint. I'm still using some (measured) 75A one piece cushions. Why?? The new 2 piece 72A (measured 70A) are stiffer. I believe I know the reason. Anyone care to venture a wag as to why??

The problem I have with this design remains the same. While you can certainly stiffen the Arius action to the point of being essentially solid, I have yet to be able to get it to be soft enough to suit me. I can get it to not wobble @ speed, but then it will not turn. The rate of push back still ramps up too fast. Better now, but still not where I want it to be. I'm interested in seeing where the next softer cushions (I have 74 and 72A measured) of the old style yet to try. Both of these were a bit twitchy with the other trucks. The 75s felt different and better in the new trucks.

Experimenting continues.
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Old March 24th, 2016, 10:20 PM   #5
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There is a derby guy at our rink that has them. He has expressed that he is not a big fan of them. Mostly because he likes fine tuning as he puts it. He says they will probably be for sale soon and that he is going back to a DA45, Avenger I think. But I would definitely like to hear more of what Doc thinks of them with more time on them.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 11:13 AM   #6
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Using the gen1 cushions on the gen 2 trucks? Still the gen 1 plate right?

The stabilization pin hole from the gen 1 cushion would help compression, aside from that I dont know. Haven't seen the new stuff first hand.

Between avengers and arius id choose arius for indoors, the extra deckheight and weight is something that i dont want myself, also its power to the ground is better. The solid setup outdoors just doesnt do so well compared to the cushioned ride of traditional plates.

Proline
Avenger, invader
A pair of ultimates, not sure what ones.
Dont get to try much stuff here.

No royals yet. Didnt get a chance to roll pj's setup a while back at rollerjam.

I doubt ill ever switch back though. Not that I wont own or try others, but there are some aspects i wont part with on it, at least for rink skating. They really need those mold injected, and a modified shape, then again I havent seen the new goods.

I dont know if doc included me in his known skater number there. Lol.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 03:59 PM   #7
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Using the gen1 cushions on the gen 2 trucks? Still the gen 1 plate right?

Yep...

The stabilization pin hole from the gen 1 cushion would help compression, aside from that I dont know. Haven't seen the new stuff first hand.

You broke the code.


Between avengers and arius id choose arius for indoors, the extra deckheight and weight is something that i dont want myself, also its power to the ground is better. The solid setup outdoors just doesnt do so well compared to the cushioned ride of traditional plates.

Proline
Avenger, invader
A pair of ultimates, not sure what ones.
Dont get to try much stuff here.

Odd, never heard you mention the Pro Lines or Ultimates. Now, were they borrowed or your own sk8s set up for you?? Doing plate evaluations on borrowed sk8s is no evaluation @ all. A lot of times, not even a good place to start.

No royals yet. Didnt get a chance to roll pj's setup a while back at rollerjam.

PJs may or may not be set up the way you would need them to be to get a real feel. The only true way to tell is own it and sk8 it.. You have seen my walls. So to really evaluate how an action behaves one needs to own the sk8 and have others they own to compare them to. Anything else is just a TV w/ rabbit ears on the fringe of the signal.

I lost count years ago of sk8s I borrowed to check out that almost scared me off the boot and or plate, because they were not set up for me.

I doubt ill ever switch back though. Not that I wont own or try others, but there are some aspects i wont part with on it, at least for rink skating. They really need those mold injected, and a modified shape, then again I havent seen the new goods.

I dont know if doc included me in his known skater number there. Lol.
You are number 3 Marshall. Maybe I misunderstood a lot of what you have been telling me. I really thought your Arius was the first "high end" plate you actually owned and have spent a lot of time on.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 05:40 PM   #8
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You are number 3 Marshall. Maybe I misunderstood a lot of what you have been telling me. I really thought your Arius was the first "high end" plate you actually owned and have spent a lot of time on.
Well the ultimate was a borrow I tried, nice plate, very stable steered pretty well but it dod have a tendancy to quickly reach a choke point, pretty loose at near neutral. The proline which I own was on that bont boot, its not my style and the cushions were too stiff, it also doesnt turn as much as id like. Its not really any more firm comparing the proline and bont with that crazy glued up carrera. That carrera can freaking turn! However its can also be a little wobbly under high speed in the straigjts when maxing out outdoors if your not conditioned for it. Nothing crazy though.

Not trying to assume things, but it doesnt take too long on a plate for me to figure out the carving characteristics, and if I like the geometry or not. Mostly its not that, its the boot, too stiff and I dont like it. When things become too rigid you cant make the skate edge differently from the fore/aft position on the plate. Having the ability to cause minor distortions under load greatly changes the way a skate can carve. I couldn't do this when the Arius was on the bont. So i kind of hated it on that boot. Need to stick the proline on the vanilla, the bolt holes line up i think.

I was alot slower on the bont than my vanilla when using the arius. 3 weeks on it and couldnt get my toe push back that lets me have my ridiculous speed.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 06:13 PM   #9
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I was alot slower on the bont than my vanilla when using the arius. 3 weeks on it and couldnt get my toe push back that lets me have my ridiculous speed.
What? No ludicrous speed?

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Old March 25th, 2016, 06:51 PM   #10
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Mostly its not that, its the boot, too stiff and I dont like it. When things become too rigid you cant make the skate edge differently from the fore/aft position on the plate. Having the ability to cause minor distortions under load greatly changes the way a skate can carve. I couldn't do this when the Arius was on the bont. So i kind of hated it on that boot. Need to stick the proline on the vanilla, the bolt holes line up i think.

I was alot slower on the bont than my vanilla when using the arius. 3 weeks on it and couldnt get my toe push back that lets me have my ridiculous speed.
Interesting observation, I wonder if this is also a byproduct of your skating style as well as the boot/plate combo. Does the bont work for you on any other plate or is just the bont + arius that you have issues with?
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Old March 25th, 2016, 07:36 PM   #11
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Lol matt, yea they took it from me, probably couldnt easily break 20mph in them. I felt so slow...good power transfer, but top speed was garbage.


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Interesting observation, I wonder if this is also a byproduct of your skating style as well as the boot/plate combo. Does the bont work for you on any other plate or is just the bont + arius that you have issues with?
I didnt like it on the proline either. The weight was nice and all, but the rigidity of the setup is something i dont really like. Too rigid in a suspension and things get wacky. Thats why I need to swap the plate to my vanilla. The bont is about 200g lighter, and i jist dont like the feeling of it. The whole base of the boot camouflages the plate from its rigidity and the feedback suffers. I can feel the plate through the leather because its softer. It allows a type of feel that lets me make moves I cannot do with the same precision on the bont. Like trying to do a repeated skill blind folded almost.

The first hockey stop I did on the bont boot same plate pretty much the exact same alignment, i busted my ass from a gross overshoot due to the lack of flex. That was cool and all I adjusted and it didnt happen again. Backwards plow, same thing, slipped out. Ate sh!t lol, just once, but that move was incredibly harder on the bonts. Almost so hard I couldnt do it. I only had 2 falls wearing the combo but never could feel right on it. The stiff sole did help leverage the skate tho and made turning a lot easier. When I put the vanilla back on it felt like i couldnt turn for 2 laps, 5 laps and i was right at home again.

Over 20 hours on that setup and I couldn't make it perform just right. After the first 30 minuites i was pretty sure thats how it was gonna be but I tried for alot longer and never really got anywhere.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 07:53 PM   #12
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First ride, Arius Platinum trucks.
I wonder how the Arius platinum trucks work on the Arius platinum frame?
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Old March 25th, 2016, 08:39 PM   #13
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I wonder how the Arius platinum trucks work on the Arius platinum frame?
Should be identical. The platinum is just strengthened to keep the toestop boss from breaking off.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 08:44 PM   #14
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I wonder how the Arius platinum trucks work on the Arius platinum frame?
Buy me a pair of 6s and I'll let ya know. I don't use stops (the stop mount is the only real diff I can see) so I really don't don't think there would be much to learn.


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Old March 25th, 2016, 10:51 PM   #15
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Buy me a pair of 6s and I'll let ya know. I don't use stops (the stop mount is the only real diff I can see) so I really don't don't think there would be much to learn.


Agreed.

So how bout them trucks? How much different than gen 1 trucks? Wes will need the new styles for the project. Id like the plate made with the toestop modifications too, better to clone the updated version. Heh.

Thiugh the biggest afvabtage will be from the bushings being replaced with bearings.
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Old March 25th, 2016, 11:16 PM   #16
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Agreed.

So how bout them trucks? How much different than gen 1 trucks?

Based on my one session, better, especially when used w/ the OG cushions. I see more urethane shavings in the future. .

Wes will need the new styles for the project. Id like the plate made with the toestop modifications too, better to clone the updated version. Heh.

Yeah, makes sense although I think 7075 may solve the strength issues, even on the OG plate profile.

Thiugh the biggest afvabtage will be from the bushings being replaced with bearings.

You really need to look @ the prototype trucks. They have needle bearings in them.
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Old March 26th, 2016, 02:13 AM   #17
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Should be identical. The platinum is just strengthened to keep the toestop boss from breaking off.
I saw them at the local shop and that was the first thing that occurred to me.

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Buy me a pair of 6s and I'll let ya know. I don't use stops (the stop mount is the only real diff I can see) so I really don't don't think there would be much to learn.
I asked for that, didn't I?
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Old March 26th, 2016, 02:57 AM   #18
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I can see a hole enlargement going on in those cushions soon.


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You really need to look @ the prototype trucks. They have needle bearings in them.
Can you get the bearing codes off it? I was wondering what they had in there. I figured a needle bearing setup would be prime, then shim it to a snug fit and let the axis pin close it the rest of the way up.

I was thinking needles as well honestly. Probably need a couple washers and shim stock. But that would be the best instead of plastic dowels. Mine have a lot of play in them now(still nowhere near as much as traditional kingpins tho), Ill have to take them apart and get some pictures for show and tell.

I believe the alu axles i used from that inline skate have a better fit than the stock axis pins. Ill check the micrometer /caliper sometime to verify that. It would be nice to have a very snug slip fit, abec 1 bearings to guarantee a standard in size and a 7.9925 axis pin. 7075, i think Ti or steel is ovekill, but im not opposed to them either.
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Old March 26th, 2016, 11:07 PM   #19
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I can see a hole enlargement going on in those cushions soon.

Or other shape adjustments.

Can you get the bearing codes off it?

They are pressed in, and have a bigger OD than the hole in the current trucks.

I was wondering what they had in there. I figured a needle bearing setup would be prime, then shim it to a snug fit and let the axis pin close it the rest of the way up.

Shim what?? The bearing?? I'm lost again.


I was thinking needles as well honestly. Probably need a couple washers and shim stock. But that would be the best instead of plastic dowels. Mine have a lot of play in them now(still nowhere near as much as traditional kingpins tho), Ill have to take them apart and get some pictures for show and tell.

I think needle bearings are overkill. A better grade of plastic bushing should suffice. I'm not real sure the current parts are any kind of technical grade material.

I believe the alu axles i used from that inline skate have a better fit than the stock axis pins. Ill check the micrometer /caliper sometime to verify that. It would be nice to have a very snug slip fit, abec 1 bearings to guarantee a standard in size and a 7.9925 axis pin. 7075, i think Ti or steel is ovekill, but im not opposed to them either.

The bearing in the prototype trucks is an open roller. The axis pin rolls directly on the rollers.
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Old March 27th, 2016, 03:44 AM   #20
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Shimming, that portrays to the truck. Whete the inner race would sit on the axis pin. You would need a standoff or a "speed ring" normally found on axles of skates to keep the truck from being butted up agains the plate. The shims would further take up the slack between the plate and the inner races.



If you would, imagine a wheel turned on its side with this setup
2mm (8mm id 10mm od)shim- bearing(press fit/loctite) spacer- bearing(press fit loctite) 2mm(8mm id 10mm od) shim.

Basically need the shims to take up the area that used to be taken up by the washer like part of the bushings. This would suspend the truck from the plate, and make an entire sleeve of metal around the axis pin when done correctly. A few press fit bearings would work well. You would just need a bearing flanged on the inner race or washers/shims. Ideally taking up all the room so the axis pin snugs everything together.

The problem with the current bushings is they are a wear item, and depending where they slide/slip/pivot, they wear on the trucks bushings bore, and also on the top and bottom of the truck itself where it sits againt the bushing. Ill get pictures tonight i promise. Mine are bare aluminum where the bushings have worn into the trucks, and now have a lot more slop than they should.

They do make needle bearings small enough for the12mm od 8 mm id i think. Basically id like to pack the axis bore in the trucks with bearings, put washers on each end of the nearings inner races that are pressed in the truck to keep the truck away from the plate, shim stock as needed.
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