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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old March 16th, 2016, 05:15 PM   #41
Derrick
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Found that this tennis court unused. It's a great place to skate except for major fault lines here and there.

Got some video. Wasn't doing as well as I was at the rink. But I'll put it up anyway.
http://youtu.be/dzsHrk6QodA

My usual self-analysis. The spins are not set at all. I did so much bettr this weekend. I'll chalk-it-up to getting used to the surface. I'm also pulling in too soon. I haven't thrown the upper body around enough before pulling into the IB edge.

Waltz is a bit better, could still do more rotation, and that wild free leg leg is still wild. I have just a bit more control of the arms though. Seems my IB has arm conteol problems as well. I'll see if I can get a new broom handle and work things out with that.

All of the elements would do with more speed. A bit more timid on this surface.

I brought a broom, but someone had ran over the handle in the garage. I thought it would work but bent in half. So the little spill at the end due to a stone and the speaker got hit hard. No injury at all to me. But my bluetooth now has some plastic missing.
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Old March 26th, 2016, 12:48 PM   #42
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Default Tip of the week

The rotation starts on the inside back edge of the eventually non-performing foot.

Found this in several physics of ice skating videos.

I think I set my right foot correctly now (this time for sure -- Bullwinkle Moose). I can do left as well but concentrated on right.

I seen from my past videos I was mohawking to an almost flat edge then trying to spiral down to a spin. I end up doing more of a three-turn than a rock-over. Then I am going IB in a circle and trying to spiral down to a spin again. Ocassionally, I actually pull that off, but it's never going be consistent or amount to a lot of rotation. It's just plain wrong.

My new, better, entery uses two good cross pulls (as the art guy I know told me) then I use a pretty deep inside back edge. This is where rotation starts. Then I think of my feet as if they are on the outside of two gears meshing together. The more I bend the knee the better the rotation.

So my new issue is that the set of the spin comes to the middle of the performing skate very quickly. I'm not in position to rock-over. But my skate is almost forcibly put on the toes, stops for an instant, and continues rotation IB. Weather I'm ready or not. I think this is what is supposed to happen, but I need it to happen in a controlled manner.

I'm also doing some scratch spins just to see where I sit.

I need to get t some video to confirm thst my entry is now correct though. Those videos are so telling.
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Old March 30th, 2016, 12:00 AM   #43
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Default Back to the Tennis court

Went to the court to practice some stuff. It's getting harder to do in session some of the stuff I want to do so the weather is in and out right now for the court.

Tested out my IB entry corrections. Practiced holding edges and starting the IB from a stand still. I was done and had my skates off when I decided I better get some video so I can further correct the spin. So I put my skates back on and got just a teenie bit of video. https://youtu.be/dfauQy210Qo

My usual self-analysis so I know what to work on:

Second 1.
My wind up inside edge could be deeper. I had much deeper ones during my practice but not on video. But this is still an improvement over my last video.

Second 2.
Hey buddy, control your arms.

Second 3.
Nice arebesque. I may just get that camel spin first. I almost had one earlier in practice. Got the leg straight but went up on the toes then down on the knee. Wound up sitting on my butt. I fall a lot these days. Oh yea, nice deep edge too. If I could find a way to propell myself I should just skate arebesque all the time. But as we have it I'm an excellent skater for about half a second.

Second 4.
Still the arms are out of control. Not standing straight up either. Still I am acheiving rotation on the OF and that is an improvement.

Second 5.
When I rock over to IB I spin out to a wide arc. Not sure why??? Analysis on second four may be a clue though.

So I know what to work on. I used a broom stick during some of the practice. I may do it more often to control those arms. Not quite sure how to get that rock over better though. Perhaps standing up better over the skate will help.

Till next time.
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Old April 5th, 2016, 02:01 PM   #44
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Default Elf's don't fix shoes after hours when no one is looking

This is what really happens:

https://youtu.be/8FU1H-FCXUU

I am compelled to anal-ize a bit, just cause I must. I need still a bit more control of the arms. Stand up just a bit straighter. Once there a bit more power for extra revs.

I am definitely getting there!!!
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Old April 8th, 2016, 04:26 AM   #45
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Default tip of the week-ish

Have a lot of new tips but the most important thing I'm learning is how the performing hip is used to turn the whole body to get rotation. I was trying to get rotation all from waist twist and leg. But the hip is more important as it rotates the entire weight of your body except your performing leg. The extended legs slows rotation momentarily until you bring it in close.

Another tip is arm control. Concentrate on that and the rest of the body will behave.

Getting so much better.
Video will come when its above 45f again.
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Old April 9th, 2016, 08:52 AM   #46
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Derrick,
Please concentrate on the entry. For an IB upright, start with your back 90 degrees from the ground. I noticed you were almost in an arabesque (parallel to the ground) when you were outside.

When you enter and step to your employed foot (Left foot) you are not spotting the foot in place and then flip the edge. Try to do a Mohawk from right back to left front and immediately after the left foot goes down flip the edge with a 3 turn. As you do the Mohawk, step to the left foot with a very deep knee bend (not a body bend, just a deep knee bend) keeping your back straight up and then as you straighten your knee some do the 3 turn to spot the spin.

Here is my spin again and see what I am saying about Mohawk to 3 turn with a deep knee bend and then straighten. That way you can bring the right leg
up and keep it tight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPVE...&nohtml5=False


Just to note. I saw the vid on the trainer and I think it may be hurting your technique on wheels. Specifically you are on the wrong edge for an IB spin, and in fact you are mostly on an outer forward edge and you are compensating with your leg out. That spinner is more for a single point such as an Ice Blade and not for 4 points on wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
Have a lot of new tips but the most important thing I'm learning is how the performing hip is used to turn the whole body to get rotation. I was trying to get rotation all from waist twist and leg. But the hip is more important as it rotates the entire weight of your body except your performing leg. The extended legs slows rotation momentarily until you bring it in close.

Another tip is arm control. Concentrate on that and the rest of the body will behave.

Getting so much better.
Video will come when its above 45f again.
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Old April 9th, 2016, 02:57 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Derrick,
Please concentrate on the entry. For an IB upright, start with your back 90 degrees from the ground. I noticed you were almost in an arabesque (parallel to the ground) when you were outside.

When you enter and step to your employed foot (Left foot) you are not spotting the foot in place and then flip the edge. Try to do a Mohawk from right back to left front and immediately after the left foot goes down flip the edge with a 3 turn. As you do the Mohawk, step to the left foot with a very deep knee bend (not a body bend, just a deep knee bend) keeping your back straight up and then as you straighten your knee some do the 3 turn to spot the spin.

Here is my spin again and see what I am saying about Mohawk to 3 turn with a deep knee bend and then straighten. That way you can bring the right leg
up and keep it tight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPVE...&nohtml5=False


Just to note. I saw the vid on the trainer and I think it may be hurting your technique on wheels. Specifically you are on the wrong edge for an IB spin, and in fact you are mostly on an outer forward edge and you are compensating with your leg out. That spinner is more for a single point such as an Ice Blade and not for 4 points on wheels.
Thanks for the help once again. It's really difficult to learn without help. I will get this!

When you point out areas to get it right I want to try it right away, can't think about anything else til skating day. I'm such a big kid.
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Old April 11th, 2016, 07:07 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Derrick,
Please concentrate on the entry. For an IB upright, start with your back 90 degrees from the ground. I noticed you were almost in an arabesque (parallel to the ground) when you were outside.

When you enter and step to your employed foot (Left foot) you are not spotting the foot in place and then flip the edge. Try to do a Mohawk from right back to left front and immediately after the left foot goes down flip the edge with a 3 turn. As you do the Mohawk, step to the left foot with a very deep knee bend (not a body bend, just a deep knee bend) keeping your back straight up and then as you straighten your knee some do the 3 turn to spot the spin.
It finally sunk in. That worked! Details and video to come (busy day). I'm sure I need some cleanup, but I set it and got the spin! Even got a compliment on it from a skating instuctor (not an art instructor and he can't do it but a compliment none-the-less).

Tahnks so much for sticking with me.
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Old April 11th, 2016, 09:41 PM   #49
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Derrick,
You're very welcome. I can't wait to see it.
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Old April 15th, 2016, 01:58 PM   #50
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Default Still entring correctly

OK

I can enter the spin

As long as I:

do a couple of cross pulls

get a nice wind up on the IB of the eventual free foot

step low

keep my back straight

keep my trailing hip over the OF to get the set

move the hip and free leg smoothly around while rocking to IB and unbending the performing leg

control my arms bring them in nice and smooth

stay on the edge rather tha my toes

Nothing to it.

Actually, I can do this for the most part, but I would like some more smoothness and revs. Two points need additional attention. Not getting on the toes and unbending the performing foot. Well smooth arm control, I can do it but I forget sometimes.
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Old April 15th, 2016, 07:57 PM   #51
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Derrick,

How about that vid! That said, it sounds like you were repeating what I told you several times already. Cool!
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Old April 18th, 2016, 08:31 PM   #52
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Derrick,

How about that vid! That said, it sounds like you were repeating what I told you several times already. Cool!

Yea, it takes me a while as I think I get it and have some aspect then I find I had that part wrong. Vid should be saturday; weather is real nice now.

So.. Just so I'm sure I understand... When you spot the spin on the lof, that's the same spot after the rock over you are just going around it IB? Not that I could tell without video of myself. If I'm looking down I would already be in trouble.


I still have a bad habit of bending over. Then it doesn't spot and I have to abort. Anyway, at least I know what I should have done and I get it the next time. Busy sessions and muscle strain is cutting my practice pretty short these days though. Oh yes, and the sun is in my eyes.
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Old April 18th, 2016, 10:36 PM   #53
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Yes! LOF spot and rockover to LIB. Of course stand upright, since it is an upright spin... You can take a bow after you finish the spin, not before or during the spin.

Remember to step on the LOF with a deep knee bend, not a waist bend. DEEP Knee bend. Then you can start to straighten the knee bend as you flip edges.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
Yea, it takes me a while as I think I get it and have some aspect then I find I had that part wrong. Vid should be saturday; weather is real nice now.

So.. Just so I'm sure I understand... When you spot the spin on the lof, that's the same spot after the rock over you are just going around it IB? Not that I could tell without video of myself. If I'm looking down I would already be in trouble.


I still have a bad habit of bending over. Then it doesn't spot and I have to abort. Anyway, at least I know what I should have done and I get it the next time. Busy sessions and muscle strain is cutting my practice pretty short these days though. Oh yes, and the sun is in my eyes.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 11:43 AM   #54
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Kind of back burnering this until I see a pro this fall. Oh I try a couple in session, but not focusing on it right now.
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Old November 7th, 2016, 11:02 PM   #55
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Default Ok no pro money was tight and the fam wants vacations too

Anyway, back from pretending that I'm not focussing on spins.

So I've done incrementally better. I've recently learned a couple of things.

1. The toe press. I was trying to use a lean to get on the right edge. I learned I can press the toe without leaning. Stay straight up and down and press despite no lean. This has really improved my two foot, and inproved my one foot as well.

2. The obvious, stand straight up -- and your never as straight up as you think you are. Get straighter

3. Let your fingers feel the spin. Control the arms but very lightly, let the spin take them a bit, then bring them in with minimal force.

4. Bring the arms and balance foot in together. It just helps me balance. I can do it one at s time but I'm better if it's one motion.

5. Enter completely upright. You can bend the knee but not the waist.

Perhaps conjecture, perhaps not, but I'm getting better.

Things I'm doing well on: That entering IB before the Chactaw is awesome. Setting much better, getting straight.

Things to improve: Get lower knee bend, I enter Chactaw bent, then straighten, need to just be straight. Set quicker.

I'm reqlly getting better, but I always need work.
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Old November 18th, 2016, 07:04 PM   #56
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Default Heres my latest

My spin was a bit camera shy. Kept falling off the edge. But it shows some improvement. I hope.

https://youtu.be/HEubuEXgVRw

I've been working on not winding up (that just throws me, I have a horrible habit of this). And a proper position for an entry. I tend to enter like a mohawk instead of the bwlnce foot behind and me facing forward. I also need to work on picking up the balance foot.

EDiT: After further review, I don't like the spins. My balance is improving somewhat but I'm putting my weight back on what should be my balance foot. Then I reset and spin. I don't do this going left, but my spin isn't as good.
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Last edited by Derrick; November 18th, 2016 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Further review
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Old November 28th, 2016, 05:03 AM   #57
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Smile Thanks for the video...awesome!

I'm not an expert on spins. In fact, I will have lesson dedicated to spins with a 5th coach if you can believe that. I just worked out that way...lol!

Keep up the good work Derrick.

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Old December 9th, 2016, 08:00 PM   #58
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Default I GOT RiB SPIN SET!!!!!!

Almost giddy.

A litte science, a little luck. I knew I wasn't getting the initial ROB set. So I practiced spining on thst edge in my house. That's a tough edge to spin on. I still drag a toe for it.

Then I got to the rink and the spin is getting better. But still not quite set.

Then, for whatever reason, I stopped delaying after two cross pulls and went right into the spin. Not sure why ai always delayed after the cross rolls, but I just made a habit of it. That finally set the spin correctly. No more moving my wieght back to the nonperforming foot. No double set.

Now, when I improve anything I concentrate on it and my arms mis behave a bit. If I can get it to where I'm concentrating more on arm control I do better.

The resulting RIB edge seems better too.

I'll get video when I can.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 10:35 AM   #59
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Default Still working on the IB after all this time

Quote:
Originally Posted by markwphoto View Post
@Batonstar, I'm kind of in the same boat as you learning the OB spin/sit spin/camel but I've made a lot of progress the last few weeks. I started skating when I was 18 and skated competition a few years. I always had a very good left IB upright and sit spin but I could never grasp the outer back. I stopped skating around 25 and fast forward quite a few years, I started back at it when I turned 40 last year.

Even though I'm not as young as I used to be things seem to be clicking a lot faster for me now. I guess it's because I'm understanding the mechanics of how things work a lot better now and I can analyze what I'm doing wrong now on my own.

Here's what helped me:

1. Practicing a lot of figure 3 turns on a right inner forward to right outer back 3 turn. This will help you get used to the flipping motion you need to change to the outer back edge. Make sure the 3 turn slides and doesn't hop. Also after you do the turn make sure the left hip is higher than the right hip that you're skating on! I mean like seriously exaggerate it. This was key for me and helped me elsewhere. More on that later.

2. After rolling the figure circle with 3 turns. Roll outer back circles in a smaller diameter. Not quite as small as a loop circle but this will get you used to pressing the edge. Try to feel the pressure on your pinky toe and press the outside of your right knee to the pinky toe. Again be sure to hold your left hip up and don't poke your right hip out!

3. Still practice - From a still position with your feet about shoulder with apart push and roll a right inner forward. Be sure to feel the pressure on the right inner heel wheel. When you're ready push off with the left foot and slide the inner heel to the outer back. Key points make sure you lift your left hip up higher than the right and don't poke out your right hip. As far as the arm the biggest thing is to not let them move at all once you commit to the turn.

4. After doing the above for it seems like a billion times you can start rolling a deep left inner forward to a deep right inner forward 3-turn slide right into the outer back. As soon as you make the 3-turn press your knee to the pinky toe and hold the pressure as long as you can. The more you do it the smaller the circle will get and before you know it, you'll be spinning an outer back.

My outer back is getting more consistent with each practice and I've only been working on it for a few weeks. The outer back sit is also getting there as well. I can't quite get it as low as my inner back sit but I'm sure I will eventually. Now as for the camel... yeah I'm still working on that but I made some progress yesterday with 3 good spins that spun for 2 revolutions.

As I said before the key for me was not dropping my left hip and not poking my right hip out. After getting this right it has also helped me tremendously with my jumps! I went from single jumps to doubles over night just by fixing my hips! I have to consciously tell myself before I jump (or spin for that matter) "hold your left hip up," and every time I do I land my doubles and nail my spins every time. It's like it's magic.

I hope this helps and feel free to ask any other questions if you have them. I'll try to help as best as I can.
Funny, I've been working on the IB in my basement. I'm a hack and hate to give any unconfirmmed advice anymore. But I have also found the higher the hip is key on the IB as well.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 10:07 AM   #60
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Default IB tip

harder cushions. The edge is better, but it's harder to set off a normal entry. But the better edge is worth it.
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