S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Quad Roller Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 23rd, 2017, 05:57 PM   #1
Firstchoice2017
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3
Default Intro and plate question for roller derby skates

Hello!

I'm a new member, but been stalking the forums for over a year. I have searched the forums and read and read, but I think I need personalized help. Hope this is in the correct forum.

I am in my second year of roller derby and about 3 months ago I upgraded from my starter R3 skates to a reidell boot (965) and the sure grip DA45 in magnesium plate. It is a 158mm plate and mounted with the heel all the way back. Its about one inch shorter than my original plate. The boot is a size 8 (ladies 10)

After 3 months of skating on it and struggling with speed, crossovers, and balance, I think I have decided this set up is not right for me. I don't know if its the mount, the kingpin angle, or length of the plate or all of the above. I am 5'9" and 200 lbs and primarily a blocker on my derby team.

My question is, where do I go from here? It has been suggested that I try the Suregrip Avanti. If I go that route, what length plate should I choose? I have searched the forums and have overthought and overanalyzed this to death and still don't know what to do. I do know I am really tired of feeling frustrated constantly because I can't take a hit and can't seem to gain any speed during laps. My skating skill has gone downhill since making the switch to these new plates and I'm really discouraged.

I appreciate your experience/input.
Firstchoice2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2017, 06:28 PM   #2
dvw
Secretary of Skate
 
dvw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hendersonville, TN
Posts: 4,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
It is a 158mm plate and mounted with the heel all the way back. Its about one inch shorter than my original plate. The boot is a size 8 (ladies 10)
Hi and welcome.

You have a good boot and plate. Nothing at all wrong with either. My guess is it's the "heel all the way back" that's giving you fits. You should consider getting it remounted and push it forward. Without looking at it, a guess would be about 3/4".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
It has been suggested that I try the Suregrip Avanti. If I go that route, what length plate should I choose?
The plate length you have is fine.

The Avanti is a good choice, but I'd seriously advise that you remount the one you have first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
I do know I am really tired of feeling frustrated constantly because I can't take a hit and can't seem to gain any speed during laps. My skating skill has gone downhill since making the switch to these new plates and I'm really discouraged.
Well sure. I would be too.

Based on what you've told me, it sounds like the front axle is too far back. You're front heavy, and when you try to push or take a hard cut, your weight goes over on your toes and you lose it. You can't get any speed because the wheels let go of the floor before you're done pushing.

How about some pictures? Shoot a pic of one skate on the arch side of the boot looking right into the side. The one straight down from above looking at the toes, right over the front wheels. That will tell me a lot.
__________________
Find some roller derby girls. Don't try to romance them! That don't end well. okie 10/12/2011
Royals FTW! When only the shiny will do... Doc Sk8 05/19/2012
dvw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2017, 07:05 PM   #3
Firstchoice2017
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3
Default Thanks for your advice!

Ive actually thought about pushing it forward but in doing that, but in doing that won't I lose stability at the heel? (Feel like falling backwards, esp when taking hits)


[IMG][/IMG]
Firstchoice2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2017, 08:27 PM   #4
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
Ive actually thought about pushing it forward but in doing that, but in doing that won't I lose stability at the heel? (Feel like falling backwards, esp when taking hits)


[IMG][/IMG]
Yep... plate is too far toward the back. When going short forward you aren't concerned about leaning back as much because you will have to go to a forward leaning stance. 3/4" or up to 1" moving the plate forward looks about right but measuring correctly will tell the tale.
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2017, 09:41 PM   #5
dvw
Secretary of Skate
 
dvw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hendersonville, TN
Posts: 4,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
Ive actually thought about pushing it forward but in doing that, but in doing that won't I lose stability at the heel? (Feel like falling backwards, esp when taking hits)
Short version: yes, you will for a short time until your brain recalibrates. That won't take long. The first time you get lazy and your foot kicks out from under you and shoves your heart up into your throat will be the beginning of that recalibration. The payoff is that now your front axle will be out in front of you instead of the other way around, and that will pay big dividends.

Long version: Stability is your responsibility, not the skates'. Look in the picture. The skate is perfectly stable just like it sits. It isn't until you stick your foot in it and stand up that stability is compromised. So it is incumbent upon you to develop the skills and the conditioning to properly control the skate. After all, do the skates belong to you or do you belong to them? I know who's the boss in my skate bag.

I'd have to measure it, but 1/2" - 3/4" is the ballpark. Basically an axle's width in front of the widest part of the boot if you want to eyeball it for the sake of comparison.
__________________
Find some roller derby girls. Don't try to romance them! That don't end well. okie 10/12/2011
Royals FTW! When only the shiny will do... Doc Sk8 05/19/2012
dvw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2017, 01:52 PM   #6
Firstchoice2017
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3
Default

Thanks again for the help. I will be taking them to be remounted tomorrow and give it a shot.

Another question: how does the forward mounting affect a 10 degree plate such as the Avanti? If the forward mount does not help me enough in the stability category with the DA45 and I decide to change to the Avanti, would I order another 158 wheelbase and also mount it forward? I did an experiment and took my old wheels for a spin (10 degree plates on R3) and once my muscle memory kicked in, I started feeling like my old self and enjoyed the stability. But those plates have a 7 inch wheel base axel to axel and definitely felt hard to turn. Just wondering if a 158 Avanti would be the happy medium I need. Thanks again!
Firstchoice2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2017, 04:40 PM   #7
wired
Member
 
wired's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: KY USA
Posts: 2,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
Thanks again for the help. I will be taking them to be remounted tomorrow and give it a shot.
Good!

As DVW said, stability is the skater, not the skate. In a derby stance you should have most of you weight on the front axle so where the rear one falls isn't terribly important. That said people can talk themselves into just about anything. Many believe the key to speed is in magic bearings.

The Avenger may be one of the best derby plates ever. Inexpensive, strong and many tuning options. I think you are not getting it's full performance until you are on blue cushions but getting there takes most folks months of cushion changes and adjustments to hone their balance and coordination.

As Doc says, you can learn to skate anything. While it sucks to skate on crappy equipment you are definitely not in that category. Get the plates remounted. Hopefully the front axle will be somewhere ahead of the ball of your foot and an equal amount of front wheels will be visible on both sides of the boot. Then SKATE! Don't think of this or that equipment changes for at least 10-20 hours of skate time. Whatever you do DON'T PUT ON YOUR OLD SKATES! Doing so will just reset your learning curve. Until you have considerable time in on at least 5-10 different kinds of skate setups your ability to discern differences accurately will be questionable at best.

.
__________________
Previous Foot2big quote removed by moderator request. Some can dish, but can't stand to eat...
wired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2017, 08:31 PM   #8
dvw
Secretary of Skate
 
dvw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hendersonville, TN
Posts: 4,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
Thanks again for the help. I will be taking them to be remounted tomorrow and give it a shot.
Ok good. Make sure the shop knows what it's doing. A bad remount will only frustrate and confuse you more.

The front axle should be about 5/16" in front of the widest part of the boot. If the widest part of your foot doesn't sit there, then we have to deal with boot fitment. Ignore where the back axles lands, as it is of secondary importance. Also make sure that the front of the plate is centered on the boot directly above the front axle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
Another question: how does the forward mounting affect a 10 degree plate such as the Avanti?
The same way it would affect any plate you choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
If the forward mount does not help me enough in the stability category with the DA45 and I decide to change to the Avanti, would I order another 158 wheelbase and also mount it forward?
I would, yes.

And reference previous remarks on stability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstchoice2017 View Post
I did an experiment and took my old wheels for a spin (10 degree plates on R3) and once my muscle memory kicked in, I started feeling like my old self and enjoyed the stability. But those plates have a 7 inch wheel base axel to axel and definitely felt hard to turn. Just wondering if a 158 Avanti would be the happy medium I need. Thanks again!
First off, you can't skate your new skates like they're your old ones. And yes, muscle memory kicked in big time and it all came back to you. Probably cost you some progress on your new skates, to be truthful. You'll never learn to skate the new ones until the other ones go in the closet for good. Or in the freshie bin.

And for reference, I skate a 7" wheelbase plate. And I wear a size 13.
__________________
Find some roller derby girls. Don't try to romance them! That don't end well. okie 10/12/2011
Royals FTW! When only the shiny will do... Doc Sk8 05/19/2012
dvw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2017, 07:30 PM   #9
Kennedy
Go fast, turn left
 
Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Youngstown, Ohio, USA
Posts: 3,766
Default

1st thing, the front axle of the plate is too far back. Getting any kind of speed out of that plate placement is going to be tough.

2nd, rear axle is in a good spot. More and more people are going to longer plates. Derby isnt about skating like it used to be. Now, pushing slow, strong walls is how the game is played. Quick foot work comes from the skater, and not necessarily from the skates. Having a longer wheel base helps with pushing and being pushed. The longer wheelbase also helps from going over backward. A large amount of stability comes from the skater, but the skates do play a big role as well.

3rd, unless the surface you are skating on is slick as hell, get rid of those Poisons. Soft, wide, grippy wheels on a DA45 are a major contributor for lower leg and knee injuries. The wheels need to be able to break free of the floor before ligaments tear. Sometimes injuries are unavoidable no matter the skate, but grippy wheels always seem to make things worse.
Kennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2017, 06:32 AM   #10
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
1st thing, the front axle of the plate is too far back. Getting any kind of speed out of that plate placement is going to be tough.

2nd, rear axle is in a good spot. More and more people are going to longer plates. Derby isnt about skating like it used to be. Now, pushing slow, strong walls is how the game is played. Quick foot work comes from the skater, and not necessarily from the skates. Having a longer wheel base helps with pushing and being pushed. The longer wheelbase also helps from going over backward. A large amount of stability comes from the skater, but the skates do play a big role as well.

3rd, unless the surface you are skating on is slick as hell, get rid of those Poisons. Soft, wide, grippy wheels on a DA45 are a major contributor for lower leg and knee injuries. The wheels need to be able to break free of the floor before ligaments tear. Sometimes injuries are unavoidable no matter the skate, but grippy wheels always seem to make things worse.
OMFG THIS. All of it as well but Especially the longer plate comment.

Long plate crew here. keep the rear axle where it is, as Kennedy mentioned buy a plate 2 sizes bigger(20mm), you'll be in a world of stability.

I disagree with the "stability is the skater"to some degree. While it is partially true, people are so caught up in the "maneuverability" of their skates in "derby land" that they forget the ones that make them maneuverable IS the skater.

The most important part of a skate is where the axles fall for your balance points of your body/feet/preferences. You cannot compromise on this( your natural balance points) if you want to perform optimally under all conditions. I've skated with a lot of people over the past 4 years, no short forwards can hang that I've ever met, and I seriously doubt they ever will. Reason? Those that have once used that setup have found that they can gain stability, and in a sense agility, because of increased stability and footprint on the floor. Simply by going to a longer plate. Why does this matter? Well... I'll try to explain.

For newer skaters that do not yet posses lateral skill sets needed to be agile, they can achieve some good agility by going with a shorter plate that will GREATLY steer around for them. This can cause problems, such as a skater DEPENDING on the skate to guide them in a direction of travel. In many cases, the lateral skills of the newer skater cannot match the carving ability of the skate plate, and they can easily get in over their heads.


fierocious1 is a great asset to tuning your DA45 pate for the turning input/output you want, even on super long plates.

Also.
Wheels make a HUGE influence on agility. RBT's are great wheels for agility, for top speed something more like a SG Zombie "MID" where it has reinforcement all the way to the edge of the wheel with no lip. just an example.

I'd recommend a RBT 88-97A or better yet Bont Royal Assassins in 95A

I currently rock a 193mm wheelbase on a size 10 Vanilla freestyle. Considered a "skateboard" mount. lol it turns hella fine.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2017, 10:36 AM   #11
oldnslow
Listen to DaMan
 
oldnslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern IN
Posts: 1,072
Default

I'd have to agree with a longer plate. Maybe just one size longer. A taller boot will also provide more stability as would a speed wheel, one that is wider and harder then what you are using now.
__________________
"Haste makes waste...and talk is CHEAP
Shut Up and SKATE!"
oldnslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #12
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,270
Default I second that...

I like to skate comfortably. A longer plate allows you to stand up and relax instead of thinking about falling on your butt. And also lets the front axle be forward like a short forward but, not short. If the skate were for competition only maybe a shorter plate like you have but like I said I like to stand up and stretch and relax and you can do this with a longer plate(I usually skate longer plates anyway). With a DA45 plate the trucks can be tuned to increase turning ability to match the shorter plates turn radius. The only negative of running a longer plate is a slightly heavier plate, a few grams for relaxation...
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #13
Kennedy
Go fast, turn left
 
Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Youngstown, Ohio, USA
Posts: 3,766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnslow View Post
I'd have to agree with a longer plate. Maybe just one size longer. A taller boot will also provide more stability as would a speed wheel, one that is wider and harder then what you are using now.
I agree that wider wheels help with some stability issues when contact is not a factor. For a while, I held steadfast in using full size speed wheels when I was playing. All too often, I was finding myself face down on the floor. The root cause was wheel lock with other skaters. When I switched from wide to narrow wheels, skate to skate contact related falls dramatically decreased.
Kennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 10th, 2017, 10:16 PM   #14
quantoo
Senior Member
 
quantoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,736
Lightbulb I have an idea {dont take too seriously}. plz

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
I agree that wider wheels help with some stability issues when contact is not a factor. For a while, I held steadfast in using full size speed wheels when I was playing. All too often, I was finding myself face down on the floor. The root cause was wheel lock with other skaters. When I switched from wide to narrow wheels, skate to skate contact related falls dramatically decreased.
Have a srubrail mouted off your plates around your wheels like the hire gocarts have then your skates are like bumpercars
quantoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2017, 02:15 AM   #15
oldnslow
Listen to DaMan
 
oldnslow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern IN
Posts: 1,072
Default

What will help more than any gear is to just go skate as much as possible, and enjoy it. Make sure what ever you are on is comfortable.
__________________
"Haste makes waste...and talk is CHEAP
Shut Up and SKATE!"
oldnslow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.