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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old January 2nd, 2013, 08:12 PM   #21
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I'd check out some hockey skates. What with the rise of boys derby in the uk there are second hand big skates out there.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 09:57 PM   #22
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I'd look for a used carrera or r3 on eBay. Unless your hell bent on building a skate. Try to match his skates heel with his normal footwear. You need to also consider how flexible his ankles are. If he can't tilt his toe up towards his shin very far a short forward Mount with little to no heel will make him hate skating.

Most men aren't flexible, and fewer people still who aren't already skaters have poor ankle/calf flexibility to pull their toes up to create that forward lean needed for a sport mount.

Toe stops should be used, a newbie should have more support devices until they don't need them. A NTS setup is for people that have already figured out they don't want or need toe stops. I like having mine and I'm extremely accomplished at skating. I don't use them much since I know how to hockey stop but that doesn't mean they are useless. They will also keep a newbie from scratching a floor up.

Let him make his own decisions about gear, just give him a highly flexible setup where here is no specialization. What always comes to mind is a carrera/r3 with better wheels and coushins. None of us are right or wrong. Its up to him to decide.

If he's really terrible at skating stick him on blades for a while. Thy are easy to get good at, and quickly build skating confidence.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 10:01 PM   #23
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I agree with mort on all except inlines being easier. With some people they are. With some they are not. But that is a good thought of another option for him to try and find out.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 01:30 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Blackdeath View Post
I agree with mort on all except inlines being easier. With some people they are. With some they are not. But that is a good thought of another option for him to try and find out.
I have to say that I don't agree with anything Mort said, not because I'm trying to be argumentative, but I've seen enough people learning to skate to know that it's wrong.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:26 AM   #25
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I would let him tool around on the loaners for a bit and wait and see. When he's interested, he'll probably start to ask questions and voice opinions/concerns. Then, you'll have a better idea what would be good components for him.

That was how it went with my husband... I begged him to spend a few bucks on some used package skates off the 'bay, and it took him about a year of skating them to want a good set-up for himself. Now, we talk skate stuff all the time.

Caution: SEDS is very contagious!
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:52 AM   #26
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Okay go to that website link on the first page and scroll down till you reach Roll Line Giotto's. 179 Pounds and you have a good all round plate. No toe stop and metal construction. Go up to a 180mm base so all should be good. You can rear mount them if need be initially then move them forward. I'd just start forward less stuffing around.
Buy some end of season footy boots grind off the studs and Bingo you are ready to roll.
7mm bearings are not all that expensive.
Wheels well I don't specialize in entry level only top end so I can't personally help you out. Look at something with a metal hub I'd suggest Roller Bones Turbo's at least if he gives up skating you have a wheel that should be easy to sell. Plates as well would also be easy to sell. Soccer boots well they are a throw away item in most cases.

I don't believe its worth wasting money on real entry level stuff like R3's if you can afford quality stuff. Plus your boyfriend will get a true skating experience if he has precision made products like The Roll Line plates. It could make all the difference between liking and hating skating.

Make sure you get him some nice long shoe laces as well so he can wrap them around the heal for extra support. I usually go buy Ice Hockey shoe laces. Super tough and nice and long available in different lengths up to about 300cm.

Good luck with the decision making.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 03:12 AM   #27
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I have to say that I don't agree with anything Mort said, not because I'm trying to be argumentative, but I've seen enough people learning to skate to know that it's wrong.
Skating is all about an individual. Someone who has not skated should not be on a short forward setup. Its in no way a beginners friend. Even if he has a teacher at his disposal. I've been skating for around 25 years on both quads and blades. I've taught many many people how to skate on both, and most people are in no way ready for the minimal lean needed on rentals let alone a short forward.


Beginning skating gear should never be optimized for anything but stability and confidence building. This requires a heel equal to what the person in question is used to wearinng. An axle placed where normal pivot points would be: directly under the heel or slightly farther back,, and directly under the ball or slightly forward.


Without that kind of setup the change from on/off skates will be drastic and unnatural.

Blades make it easy because they tend to have a longer wheelbase, and most often people at least know how to ride a bicycle, which helps with the leaning needed for blades. It depends on what a individual already knows. That kind of determines what they will feel more confident on.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 03:43 AM   #28
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Question You lost me...

No offense Mort, but if you could maybe elaborate on a couple things you said, I could understand a little better. I am by no means an "accomplished skater", but a few things here just don't make any sense to me.

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I'd look for a used carrera or r3 on eBay. Unless your hell bent on building a skate.
Why start him off on something that's about one step up from rentals? Wouldn't it be better to get something that has the potential to move when he's ready, but during the learning phase maybe use harder cushions and tighten up the action, then swap to softer ones when he's comfortable? For instance, get an Avenger and use the harder Super Cushions, then swap them out for softer ones when he is ready for more action.

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You need to also consider how flexible his ankles are. If he can't tilt his toe up towards his shin very far a short forward Mount with little to no heel will make him hate skating.

Most men aren't flexible, and fewer people still who aren't already skaters have poor ankle/calf flexibility to pull their toes up to create that forward lean needed for a sport mount.
This I don't get at all. My ankles were killing me before I went to a short mount. The short mount makes it easier to move your feet, therefore causing less stress on the ankles.


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Toe stops should be used, a newbie should have more support devices until they don't need them. A NTS setup is for people that have already figured out they don't want or need toe stops. I like having mine and I'm extremely accomplished at skating. I don't use them much since I know how to hockey stop but that doesn't mean they are useless. They will also keep a newbie from scratching a floor up.
NTS plates don't scratch up a floor. Using plates that are designed to have toe stops, but skating without them installed will scratch a floor..

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Beginning skating gear should never be optimized for anything but stability and confidence building. This requires a heel equal to what the person in question is used to wearinng. An axle placed where normal pivot points would be: directly under the heel or slightly farther back,, and directly under the ball or slightly forward.
If that's the case, the last thing you would want to recommend are R3's or similar. Most of those I have seen almost have the axle behind the ankle.

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Blades make it easy because they tend to have a longer wheelbase, and most often people at least know how to ride a bicycle, which helps with the leaning needed for blades. It depends on what a individual already knows. That kind of determines what they will feel more confident on.
How is it ok to learn to lean forward for learning blades, but not for short forward? Plus, I never had to lean forward to learn how to skate a short mount. Bend the knees a little extra, yes. But not lean forward. But my skates are Doc short style, not Aussie mounts.

I guess this leads me to ask the questions: Have you ever skated a short mount setup for any length of time? And what type of skating do you usually do and on what setup?

Again, I don't mean any offense, and I'm not trying to start another which mount is better flame war. Just maybe some clarification, that's all.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:02 AM   #29
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Just get him bonts .boens and scotts.Why beat around the bush
In the long run it will be cheaper
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:21 AM   #30
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Decent and not too expensive - Roll Line Variants on some football boots. Or Avengers. They don't have to be a short/forward mount. With his height and weight a plastic plate is just going to be uncomfortable. Roll Line stoppers are pretty damn decent. I have no idea why people stress over the fact that they can't easily fit a 'normal' stop in them when RL stops are pretty much the best you can buy And I know there are people who will disagree (I'm looking at you Big Nick) who will disagree but toe stops are pretty damn useful for derby. They become a problem when people aren't taught how to use them correctly. If it is drummed into his head that he cannot under any circumstances drag his toe to stop and taught proper crossover form then they shouldn't cause problems.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:29 AM   #31
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No offense Mort, but if you could maybe elaborate on a couple things you said, I could understand a little better. I am by no means an "accomplished skater", but a few things here just don't make any sense to me.



Why start him off on something that's about one step up from rentals? Wouldn't it be better to get something that has the potential to move when he's ready, but during the learning phase maybe use harder cushions and tighten up the action, then swap to softer ones when he's comfortable? For instance, get an Avenger and use the harder Super Cushions, then swap them out for softer ones when he is ready for more action.

I never said an avenger would be bad. Stock coushins would be fine, probably purples to start with wouldn't be overly crazy. I also don't see a carrera as being 1 step above a rental.



This I don't get at all. My ankles were killing me before I went to a short mount. The short mount makes it easier to move your feet, therefore causing less stress on the ankles.

If your ankles are weaker a short wheelbase may help, though its not as stable as a slightly longer wheelbase. As his skills and confidence on skates improve he may want more agility, that's when you change up coushins.


NTS plates don't scratch up a floor. Using plates that are designed to have toe stops, but skating without them installed will scratch a floor..
Because some people get too aggressive with SF mounts and the plate hits the floor and gouges it. That or the boots toe hits the floor and breaks it down. Just put plugs in if he hates toe stops. Why deny him toe stops? I skate blades most of the time so I am in no way used to toe stops, however they are nice when I need them. Let him choose plugs I he finds them unneeded. Then he could get into a NTS plate if he wanted to get every ounce of weight savings.


If that's the case, the last thing you would want to recommend are R3's or similar. Most of those I have seen almost have the axle behind the ankle.
The axle placement is fine. Its when the axle is closer to the arch of the foot that could cause a problem. When its set farther back behind the ankle it just makes it a little harder to fall backwards. Most Rollerblades are like this as the rear wheel sits slightly farther back than the center of the ankle. Frames of blades usually have the front wheel just past the toe so its also hard to lean too far forward on them as well.


How is it ok to learn to lean forward for learning blades, but not for short forward? Plus, I never had to lean forward to learn how to skate a short mount. Bend the knees a little extra, yes. But not lean forward. But my skates are Doc short style, not Aussie mounts.

I guess this leads me to ask the questions: Have you ever skated a short mount setup for any length of time? And what type of skating do you usually do and on what setup?

Again, I don't mean any offense, and I'm not trying to start another which mount is better flame war. Just maybe some clarification, that's all.
I do speed skating, and high agility moves forwards and backwards. I do about everything except artistic.

I wasn't talking about the lean forward when referencing blades, I was speak king of the lean laterally needed to make turns, and how much like a bicycle it is.

Quads I got are stock carrera with purple cushions and faster grip wheels(wide).
Blades are Rollerblade brand rec skates running 76mm wheels right now, they have a 273mm frame.

No I don't skate short forward. I got plenty of agility w/o it. I'd like to build one someday though.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:41 AM   #32
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I have to say that I don't agree with anything Mort said, not because I'm trying to be argumentative, but I've seen enough people learning to skate to know that it's wrong.

I took what mort said as.... in a nutshell..... to start off with a basic non expensive skate setup that can be manipulated in many ways. If you can have stoppers you can use plugs. You can make them tight or turney. Don't push him in one distinct way just because that may be what you like. And that inlines are an option. Yes he said more than that. But when I stripped it down in my mind that is basically what I was reading.


Me personally. I've been skating weekly for 28 years on quads. Been skating on inlines since about 94. I've taught many people to skate. Personally I hate stoppers. They get in my way. And for the life of me I have no clue how anyone can stop going forward with them. I want my plugs for being able to do tricks off of them. If not I would go nts. But don't take that option away from a new skater just learning to stand. Let them make there own decision. My front axel is in a forward position. Right under the crease of my big toe to my foot. For stability to just stand a full length plate will help with balance. It doesn't have to be tip to tip. Just not something that is what would be called "short forward" Yes a short plate can turn better at its peak. But there again I bet I could give any of you a run for your money with my 7.5 wheelbase advantage on a size 10 911. Put him on an avenger if you like. They can be set tight or loose. I'm not saying go bargain basement. Just don't force him in one distinct direction. Go with something that has more options and let him decide.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 04:56 AM   #33
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I took what mort said as.... in a nutshell..... to start off with a basic non expensive skate setup that can be manipulated in many ways. If you can have stoppers you can use plugs. You can make them tight or turney. Don't push him in one distinct way just because that may be what you like. And that inlines are an option. Yes he said more than that. But when I stripped it down in my mind that is basically what I was reading.


Me personally. I've been skating weekly for 28 years on quads. Been skating on inlines since about 94. I've taught many people to skate. Personally I hate stoppers. They get in my way. And for the life of me I have no clue how anyone can stop going forward with them. I want my plugs for being able to do tricks off of them. If not I would go nts. But don't take that option away from a new skater just learning to stand. Let them make there own decision. My front axel is in a forward position. Right under the crease of my big toe to my foot. For stability to just stand a full length plate will help with balance. It doesn't have to be tip to tip. Just not something that is what would be called "short forward" Yes a short plate can turn better at its peak. But there again I bet I could give any of you a run for your money with my 7.5 wheelbase advantage on a size 10 911. Put him on an avenger if you like. They can be set tight or loose. I'm not saying go bargain basement. Just don't force him in one distinct direction. Go with something that has more options and let him decide.
Thanks. Least your getting it.

To me its like people always want to build someone THEIR dream skate.
Nothing that has been said in this thread is right or wrong. Its up to him to decide what he likes. A r3/carrera is easily modified to an extent for very cheap, and can be had for considerably less. Giving him time to really develop skills and see which way he wants to go. Then buy him something nice.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 05:02 AM   #34
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I do speed skating, and high agility moves forwards and backwards. I do about everything except artistic.

I wasn't talking about the lean forward when referencing blades, I was speak king of the lean laterally needed to make turns, and how much like a bicycle it is.

Quads I got are stock carrera with purple cushions and faster grip wheels(wide).
Blades are Rollerblade brand rec skates running 76mm wheels right now, they have a 273mm frame.

No I don't skate short forward. I got plenty of agility w/o it. I'd like to build one someday though.
Gotcha. I don't do art skating either, and I tried roller blading and I suck. Hurt my ankles, but I probably didn't have good equipment anyway.

My daughter used to art skate for several years. She just recently got into Jr Derby. It's funny because she used to skate her art skates, which were pretty much mounted end to end, during competition season, and then switch to her short mount setup for the off season like it was nothing. About 30 min into the session, she was rocking the short mounts like she never skated anything else. I would have ate it for sure if I tried that. Gotta admit, I was nervous about letting her have skates that were mounted so differently at first, but Doc said she would be fine, and she was. I was a nervous wreck though.

Then when she switched to derby, I asked Doc to make her skates once again. Only this time he mounted them Aussie style. When I pulled them out of the box, I was nervous once again. I didn't tell him how to make them, I only asked him to make her what he thinks would be best. So, after art season was over, we handed her the new derby skates (very forward mounted Avengers on Bonts). Guess what? Once again, she was rocking them no problem at all, with a minimal adjustment period for the getting the trucks set up right.

That's why I always ask when people try and steer someone away from a short mount, if they ever skated a correctly mounted one themselves. I found a HUGE improvement in balance and agility for not just my old self, but both my kids as well. My son skates a short mount also, and this helped correct the problems he was having when he first started skating with balance, crossovers, and shuffling.

I know it's not for everyone, but in our case, it really worked, and continues to do so. But I can't stress "correctly mounted" enough. Once my plate placement was off when Riedell made one of my boots bigger than the other. I can't tell you how many time I ate it trying to skate them until we figured out what the problem was. I was also a little embarrassed when I saw how little the placement was off. But that little bit made a huge difference for me.


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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:10 AM   #35
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Mort believes that Poisions are the fastest wheels you can get and that he can beat a genuine speed skater on 20 year old recreational inlines .......... His experiences are very different to most skaters so perhaps this needs to be taken into consideration when he gives his opinion.

Grab a avenger or roll line and put a footy boot on it, a set of Qube bearings and wheel of choice and be done with it.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:50 AM   #36
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Mort believes that Poisions are the fastest wheels you can get and that he can beat a genuine speed skater on 20 year old recreational inlines .......... His experiences are very different to most skaters so perhaps this needs to be taken into consideration when he gives his opinion.

Grab a avenger or roll line and put a footy boot on it, a set of Qube bearings and wheel of choice and be done with it.
Way to go and flame up a thread.

Ask anyone that went to Louisville how I skate, and my inlines are 12 years old not 20, though it wouldn't matter much.

Poisons are good wheels. I nor anyone else I know has said they were the fastest. Way to go show how arrogant you can be.

Onto the thread.

When I mounted my daughters Mag Avengers I took her insoles out and use the right insole on the left skate, and left on right. On one of them the original plate didn't line up well(I noticed this because I used them as a reference as well when mounting) with everything, and I remember her complaining at first(when we started skating a year ago) that one of her skates pulled a little.

I mounted a size 3 avenger to her size 6 boot, it gave her a significant boost in speed and manuverability over the size 4 probe plate. As her foot grows and she develops better skills the plate will be shifted forwards, and the heel cut down.

It won't matter as much as people think when your first starting out. Well as long a you don't by 49 $ skates from Walmart.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:27 AM   #37
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Decent and not too expensive - Roll Line Variants on some football boots. Or Avengers. They don't have to be a short/forward mount. With his height and weight a plastic plate is just going to be uncomfortable. Roll Line stoppers are pretty damn decent. I have no idea why people stress over the fact that they can't easily fit a 'normal' stop in them when RL stops are pretty much the best you can buy And I know there are people who will disagree (I'm looking at you Big Nick) who will disagree but toe stops are pretty damn useful for derby. They become a problem when people aren't taught how to use them correctly. If it is drummed into his head that he cannot under any circumstances drag his toe to stop and taught proper crossover form then they shouldn't cause problems.
Perfect advice IMO. I have NEVER dragged my toestop, even when I was first back on skates. Do people really do that????
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:48 AM   #38
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Perfect advice IMO. I have NEVER dragged my toestop, even when I was first back on skates. Do people really do that????
All the time! I don't think I've ever watched a bout where at least a few people do it, it seems to be more experienced skaters though, and more for stability.

Salamanda, I know toestops can and are useful in derby and I take your point. I still think starting without them is a good idea, a lot of blokes who play Derby don't use them, or end up with jam plugs.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:48 AM   #39
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Way to go and flame up a thread.

Ask anyone that went to Louisville how I skate, and my inlines are 12 years old not 20, though it wouldn't matter much.

Poisons are good wheels. I nor anyone else I know has said they were the fastest. Way to go show how arrogant you can be.
Take it as arrogance if you like.

When Big Nick, Scott and I say don't get toe stops the fact that they are from Australia needs to be considered the same as skaters abilities.

I can't remember all the stuff you said about Poisons but you are a skating beast and the rest of us are not. Your opinions are as valid as anybody's but it is obvious by the following posts that your skating skills are way above those of the OP's boyfriend so equipment for a skating beast might be different to the needs of beginners.

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I use old recreational rollerblades to outrun the inline speed skaters.

When i see people skating fast at the rink i make it my goal to dust them while cranking it in reverse.

My wheels always lose grip before i lose power. (80mm Labeda grippers-yellow)

I fall on an average of 2 times per session, not for lack of skill but i push myself every time.

On my quads i run poisons(wides) because changing to a harder wheel for a stickier floor is for sissies- give me a wide uber grippy quad wheel any day. Lol
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Ima beast tho, im not saying im the best but my i exert myself to a point that others call insane. I litterally dont run out of energy. I get fatigued, but i can just go forever it seems.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 09:14 AM   #40
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Just get him bonts .boens and scotts.Why beat around the bush
In the long run it will be cheaper
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