S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | SkateLog.com | Email    


Home

*** The SkateLog Forum is Moving to SkateDebate Dot Com ***
(select above link for more information)

How To Get a User Account in the New SkateDebate Forum
(new home of the SkateLog Forum)

How To Get a User Account in the SkateLog Forum
(Note: this forum is going off-line in June of 2020)

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Artistic Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 26th, 2011, 12:43 AM   #1
GGfan
Local Silver Medalist
 
GGfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Default Loop (jump), Flip, ROB Spin Advice

Anybody got any??? I need these for Regionals.
__________________
GGfan
www.ggcorner.de www.gordeeva.com www.gordeeva.ru www.gordeeva-grinkov.com
www.thecove.doodlekit.com www.twoshallskateasone.doodlekit.com
GGfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2011, 01:10 AM   #2
Ancient1
Senior Member
 
Ancient1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tallahassee, Fl.
Posts: 1,918
Default

Do them clean and as polished as you can. Keep good posture. Don't pull the jumps, and center the spins to perfection.

One major thing that is important. The best skaters keep their heads up and smile. Look fluid on all content, not stiff.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GGfan View Post
Anybody got any??? I need these for Regionals.
__________________
Jim (The Ancient One)
Ancient1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2011, 02:27 PM   #3
QuetzalPhoenix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 257
Default

Yup yup, also BELIEVE in yourself. Don't go into the elements thinking you will/might fail.

And try not to hit the toe stop on the transition from the inside to outside edge on the back outside upright spin

Oh and a good speed will help nail the jump landings. Not too fast that you can't control them and not too slow because it doesn't look as confident and assured, even if you do land them.

Best of luck!
__________________
Skate with your heart
QuetzalPhoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2011, 05:46 PM   #4
GGfan
Local Silver Medalist
 
GGfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Do them clean and as polished as you can. Keep good posture. Don't pull the jumps, and center the spins to perfection.

One major thing that is important. The best skaters keep their heads up and smile. Look fluid on all content, not stiff.
My coach is just having me do a backward circle for ROB right now, sorry I forgot to mention that. And she said the centering problem is my skates. How about for flip? How hard do I hit the toe stop? Thanks!
__________________
GGfan
www.ggcorner.de www.gordeeva.com www.gordeeva.ru www.gordeeva-grinkov.com
www.thecove.doodlekit.com www.twoshallskateasone.doodlekit.com
GGfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2011, 06:07 PM   #5
Ancient1
Senior Member
 
Ancient1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tallahassee, Fl.
Posts: 1,918
Default

Hmmm! How hard... You know, I never thought about that. I just toe off. I do hit pretty hard, but I still have over half my weight maybe 3/4, I just don't know, over my employed foot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GGfan View Post
My coach is just having me do a backward circle for ROB right now, sorry I forgot to mention that. And she said the centering problem is my skates. How about for flip? How hard do I hit the toe stop? Thanks!
__________________
Jim (The Ancient One)
Ancient1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2011, 08:10 PM   #6
Nostalgic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 647
Default

I never hit my toe stop at all. I extended my free leg and pointed my toe. I then bent my employed knee until my toe stop touched and pulled with the toe stop and jumped at the same time. I always thought that trying to knock yourself into the air by smacking your toe against the floor looked terrible whether you are on wheels or ice.

Last edited by Nostalgic; March 26th, 2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason: typo
Nostalgic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2011, 08:34 PM   #7
Ancient1
Senior Member
 
Ancient1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tallahassee, Fl.
Posts: 1,918
Default

I'm sure mine looked ugly. It wasn't my prettiest jump. I used the toe as a snap point. you can't launch off of it as you would do a cheated mapes, but it can be used to keep the hips square and get the initial snap from the shoulders and arms.

A big problem that some people have with the flip is they start open. For most skaters that would be the left arm hanging back instead of being in front. Those first learning the jump try to get a head start on the flip by having the left arm back. They forget that they need the snap, which comes from the left arm and shoulder in front and then snaps to a closed position. For me the Toe enables me to lock into a tight closed position.
__________________
Jim (The Ancient One)
Ancient1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2011, 11:29 PM   #8
GGfan
Local Silver Medalist
 
GGfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
I never hit my toe stop at all. I extended my free leg and pointed my toe. I then bent my employed knee until my toe stop touched and pulled with the toe stop and jumped at the same time. I always though that trying to knock yourself into the air by smacking your toe against the floor looked terrible whether you are on wheels or ice.
I know you don't hit it, I just didn't know what to call it. I will try everybody's advice.
__________________
GGfan
www.ggcorner.de www.gordeeva.com www.gordeeva.ru www.gordeeva-grinkov.com
www.thecove.doodlekit.com www.twoshallskateasone.doodlekit.com
GGfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2011, 12:48 PM   #9
Footwork
Ray Ninness Bedford, NH
 
Footwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bedford, NH
Posts: 1,499
Default The Flip was a Natural jump for me!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
I'm sure mine looked ugly. It wasn't my prettiest jump. I used the toe as a snap point. you can't launch off of it as you would do a cheated mapes, but it can be used to keep the hips square and get the initial snap from the shoulders and arms.

A big problem that some people have with the flip is they start open. For most skaters that would be the left arm hanging back instead of being in front. Those first learning the jump try to get a head start on the flip by having the left arm back. They forget that they need the snap, which comes from the left arm and shoulder in front and then snaps to a closed position. For me the Toe enables me to lock into a tight closed position.
The Flip was a Natural jump for me!! It was my Bread and Butter jump.. With all my jumps back in the day, I really flew.. I loved skating fast, getting a big toe point, and getting as much altitude as possible.. For me the Flip toe point was so simple.. On the other hand I always struggled using the left toe point.. As simple as the Mapes looks I always struggled with the toe point.. I preferred doing the Flip or Lutz any day to doing a Mapes.. I did finally manage a pretty decent double Mapes, but the double Flip was my money jumps so to speak.. I even had a very nice Russian Splits and a Russian Splits Flip.

On the Mapes it took me quite a while to get the placement of the left toe for the toe off..I never felt right, opening the shoulder, and hip, like many kids now days do the Mapes.. I finally learned to keep the left shoulder and hip closed, and toe off directly behind my right employed foot.. Which kept my rotational circle more compact, instead of stepping onto the left toe stop and rotating outside my right foot take off edge, and around the left foot.. Kids now days do that, when they step onto the left toe stop and do what I refer to as a Toe Axel, taking off basically facing forward, on the left toe stop...I always stayed on the right outer back edge, and launched myself, when my left toe point was right behind my right heel..And the left toe point was the last thing on the floor, when the jump was launched.

Basically when you toe point, you really don't jam the toe stop into the floor, you hit the toe stop, and ride up to it on a bent knee, on the employed foot, and some point, the toe stop slows that foot, and when the employed foot arrives at the point of the toe point, you launch your self into the air, as both knees straighten, just as the arms, shoulders and the entrance edge starts the rotation. The toe stop is the last thing that leaves the floor.. It's not one single action, it's a sequence of actions that all fit together to create the jump..

I hope I have heped, and not simply muddied the water???

__________________
Ray Ninness
Bedford, NH
http://www.F8Photos.com
Footwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #10
QuetzalPhoenix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Footwork View Post
The Flip was a Natural jump for me!! It was my Bread and Butter jump.. With all my jumps back in the day, I really flew.. I loved skating fast, getting a big toe point, and getting as much altitude as possible.. For me the Flip toe point was so simple.
Me too! I love the flip jump, it's always the first jump I do when I get on the rink
__________________
Skate with your heart
QuetzalPhoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2011, 05:20 PM   #11
rwsz
Senior Member
 
rwsz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mass
Posts: 6,700
Default

Ray funny how the flip is less opened then the mapes and toe walley. my son always had a better flip and lutz also........do u have any old video of you jumping when you were young.??????????

i saw Don at the banquet yesterday, he is still funny as ever and a good guy. the banquet was good, saw lots of old skaters from way back and some of the new ones too.
__________________
Ciao Rick
rwsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2011, 09:03 PM   #12
Footwork
Ray Ninness Bedford, NH
 
Footwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bedford, NH
Posts: 1,499
Red face I wish things weren't so crowded right now in my life??

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsz View Post
Ray funny how the flip is less opened then the mapes and toe walley. my son always had a better flip and lutz also........do u have any old video of you jumping when you were young.??????????

i saw Don at the banquet yesterday, he is still funny as ever and a good guy. the banquet was good, saw lots of old skaters from way back and some of the new ones too.
I have been running since the start of the new year.. I am now waiting for the call to schedule my MRI for my left knee.. So there will be not skating for a while !!!

On the Flip you are coming off a left inner back edge, and the skate basically just closes on the right toe point, you could have a wide take off, and it would still work. The Lutz is the jump that helped me figure out the take off for the Mapse.. If you step wide on the Lutz, it pulls you over onto an inside edge and you end up with a Flutz, or simply a Flip.. I have had many arguments with Judges that swear that a pure Lutz is impossible.. BUT I know I managed to stay on the left outer back, right up to the left off.. When I was learning the jump, my pro was very old school, and he would scream every-time I rocked the take off over just at the toe point.. I finally figured out, that on the Lutz, I had to get the top point almost directly behind my left foot, the employed foot.. And then you didn't rock over.. And you kept you rotational circle small, and stayed on the left outer bak edge until you launched.. As I said my Mapes was the harder jump for me, the take off, never felt right.. Until one day I applied the same analysis technique to that jump.. I never did the Toe Wally much, but it is similar to the Flip, as you are on the right inside edge, and the, toe point can be further to the side because the left skate just flows into the left toe point, and the take off is easier then the Mapse, to me anyway.. With the Flip, the toe point basically starts your rotation for you, on the Mapes and Toe Waly, I always felt the toe point blocked the rotation?? Moving the toe point to as close and behind the employed skate helped a lot.. Just like it did to keep the Lutz on the right outer back edge.. With the Mapes, you are on the right outer back.. And if the toe point is further to the left, it's like you have to get around the left leg and to point to do the jump.. If the toe point is behind the right skate, or directly inline with it, you don't have to get around the left toe point, because it will be where it needs to be at the point when you launch the jump..

You would have a good laugh if you could see me jumping around my studio trying to remember all the edges and take off points!!!

Back in my day, there was no video, and for the most part movies of roller skating were all but impossible, because no lights were allowed in competition.. And back then film speed was like ASA 25 or 64, you'd need a huge amount of light, to shoot someone doing free style.. My D700 Nikon's are capable of ISO (ASA) 25,600.. And some of the newer Video capable Nikon and Canon DSLR's can shoot video at those speeds or higher..

Having only ASA 25 or 64 available for movies is why Uncle George used those huge four light Movie Bar's to shoot movies, and everyone in the movie looked like they were being blinded by the sun!!! And the light fall off was pretty bad, the subject had to be within 15 or 20 feel of the lighting, to get any kind of image..

Yep we've come a long way baby..

__________________
Ray Ninness
Bedford, NH
http://www.F8Photos.com
Footwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2011, 12:47 AM   #13
GGfan
Local Silver Medalist
 
GGfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Default

Okay...
Today we worked on sit spin and flip.
SIT:
I need to work on the three turn before spinning and getting down low.

FLIP:
I'm not going fast enough.
__________________
GGfan
www.ggcorner.de www.gordeeva.com www.gordeeva.ru www.gordeeva-grinkov.com
www.thecove.doodlekit.com www.twoshallskateasone.doodlekit.com
GGfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 8th, 2011, 02:40 AM   #14
Footwork
Ray Ninness Bedford, NH
 
Footwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bedford, NH
Posts: 1,499
Talking With jumps, speed is your friend!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGfan View Post
Okay...
Today we worked on sit spin and flip.
SIT:
I need to work on the three turn before spinning and getting down low.

FLIP:
I'm not going fast enough.
With jumps speed is your friend.. You can turn speed into altitude, to give yourself more time in the air to complete the rotations..

Doin't fight it, embrace it, and sore!!

__________________
Ray Ninness
Bedford, NH
http://www.F8Photos.com
Footwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2011, 12:14 AM   #15
GGfan
Local Silver Medalist
 
GGfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Footwork View Post
With jumps speed is your friend.. You can turn speed into altitude, to give yourself more time in the air to complete the rotations..

Doin't fight it, embrace it, and sore!!

Did you mean soar? 'Cause I'm pretty sore learning flip and loop, too!
__________________
GGfan
www.ggcorner.de www.gordeeva.com www.gordeeva.ru www.gordeeva-grinkov.com
www.thecove.doodlekit.com www.twoshallskateasone.doodlekit.com
GGfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 12th, 2011, 04:18 AM   #16
Footwork
Ray Ninness Bedford, NH
 
Footwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bedford, NH
Posts: 1,499
Default Flying through the air with the Greatest of Easy!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGfan View Post
Did you mean soar? 'Cause I'm pretty sore learning flip and loop, too!
Flying through the air with the Greatest of Easy!!! SOARING would be correct!! One thing that speed gives you is a confident look, and speed on the out flow, on landing.. Provided of course, that you are not using you back side to attenuate that speed ...

Virtuosity, in a word ..

__________________
Ray Ninness
Bedford, NH
http://www.F8Photos.com
Footwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advice, flip, loop, outer, rob

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.