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Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

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Old March 23rd, 2011, 05:35 PM   #41
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... are wheels with a 91 hardness on polished concrete too sticky to do hockey stops well? I'm having trouble swinging my foot around, i usually end up doing a beautiful spin type deal and strain something in my leg every time. I get lots of laughs though :P
If you do a *hard* t-stop does your skate judder all over the shop (rather than just making a farting noise, lol)? If so then I'd say yes, its probably is too soft
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 05:37 PM   #42
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also, Mr. Kill Joy, if it's true that Deland's coach doesnt let them use toe stops, I think that's ridiculous. How can your coach be so close minded when 'evidence' is pointing to toe stops being beneficial for derby? This isn't speed or jam skating.
no that is not true, he encourages girls to NOT use them, but it's their choice. As I can name off many great derby girls that skate fine without stops, I'm sure others can name off skaters that do. To each their own really but it's been proven over and over you don't NEED toe stops to play derby, so do what you wanna do

To add to my post since you know them very well Spikey, how many guys from MCM use toe stops?
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 06:49 PM   #43
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no that is not true, he encourages girls to NOT use them, but it's their choice. As I can name off many great derby girls that skate fine without stops, I'm sure others can name off skaters that do. To each their own really but it's been proven over and over you don't NEED toe stops to play derby, so do what you wanna do

To add to my post since you know them very well Spikey, how many guys from MCM use toe stops?
Do I need stops, no.....do I have them, yes. I just put together my nts royals, so that may all change.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:44 PM   #44
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Do I need stops, no.....do I have them, yes. I just put together my nts royals, so that may all change.
as I said to each their own. I know its easier to turn around and use toe stops than hockey stop and I personally feel thats why most people resort to toe stops, but again to each their own
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:47 PM   #45
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I'm not going to get into the debate about toe stops once again but I will say this. Every derby girl I see on crutches I and the coach of the league I ref for ask them, stops or plugs?

They all have said stops.. I think the evidence speaks for itself.
I bet they were all using eight wheels, too.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:57 PM   #46
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no that is not true, he encourages girls to NOT use them, but it's their choice. As I can name off many great derby girls that skate fine without stops, I'm sure others can name off skaters that do. To each their own really but it's been proven over and over you don't NEED toe stops to play derby, so do what you wanna do

To add to my post since you know them very well Spikey, how many guys from MCM use toe stops?
Yeah, you're right, sorry about that post. I misread and thought you said they HAD to use jamplugs. My bad!

It's not fair to bring up MCM and you know it! I'm not sure about their new recruits but the original team do not use toe stops. HOWEVER, they are all accomplished jam skaters on a national level and did not learn to skate with toe stops. I know for a fact Calkinballs doesn't have a problem with toe stops, he just never learned to skate with them in. and you know Streak and Buster are both speed skaters from when they were kiddies, so they wouldn't have used them either.
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 07:59 PM   #47
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........ and to add to my post, how many of the new jax girls do you see in toestops? The majority. Even Meow Mix has moved over to the toe stop side...
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 08:20 PM   #48
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Yeah, you're right, sorry about that post. I misread and thought you said they HAD to use jamplugs. My bad!

It's not fair to bring up MCM and you know it! I'm not sure about their new recruits but the original team do not use toe stops. HOWEVER, they are all accomplished jam skaters on a national level and did not learn to skate with toe stops. I know for a fact Calkinballs doesn't have a problem with toe stops, he just never learned to skate with them in. and you know Streak and Buster are both speed skaters from when they were kiddies, so they wouldn't have used them either.
oh it's fair to bring up MCM and you know it They are derby players, yes they came from different backgrounds but they are proof that you don't need toe stops to be good

I will leave it as I said earlier to each their own, but them guys are proof that you don't need stops to be awesome in derby, I used them as an example because you know them all personally as I do
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Old March 23rd, 2011, 10:30 PM   #49
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Just gonna leave this here
oops. typo. Except when I am out there... that's fat track derby.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 06:33 AM   #50
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hmmm, maybe my wheels are too sticky and that's why I'm incapable of hockey stopping....

hijacking this moot topic for a sec: are wheels with a 91 hardness on polished concrete too sticky to do hockey stops well? I'm having trouble swinging my foot around, i usually end up doing a beautiful spin type deal and strain something in my leg every time.
It sounds like your wheels are too soft. Too much grip and any kind of slide (including hockey stops) becomes very difficult. It's a case of experimenting with different wheels until you find ones you like. My league practices in two different sports halls. One is a wooden floor on the slippery side, and the other is varnished with loads of grip.
I have a set of wheel for each floor. It's a pain because I'm always swapping wheels. But it makes the skating much easier.

Perhaps we have gone off topic a bit, but it's all interesting stuff :-)
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Old March 24th, 2011, 08:31 AM   #51
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May I ask how you would teach the correct use of toe stops and how would you stop the skaters using them as a crutch?
When I first taught myself how to skate when I was about 7 it involved going backwards and forwards under my best friends garage wearing her brother's speed skates that were 2 sizes too big. My brake was an old Holden Kingswood and the washing machine. I don't remember the skates having toe stops and being Australian they might not have! Until I started lessons my method of braking involved rolling into things!

Teaching people to use their toe stops correctly isn't that difficult. You explain why toe dragging is a danger and encourage other methods (like t-stopping) from the outset. Honestly it's not that hard! I've taught tons of people how to skate and if you say 'this way is better and more effective than doing it this way' people generally try to learn to do it that way. As they get to be better skaters then you move onto more advanced methods.

I've noticed that the skaters that tend to toe drag are the ones that are mainly self-taught and didn't have anyone to tell them different until after the bad habit has set in. And really at some point the skater becomes responsible for her own actions. You can explain to someone until you are blue in the face why toe dragging is a danger but if they want to keep doing it then that's their problem.

I'm not adverse to the suggestion of removing a player's toe stop for a period but that is still up to the skater. I also think that if they have to rely on a bad habit because that's what they find most effective then a little more time may be needed with them to help strengthen their good ones;
When my first ice coach threatened to grind my toe picks off because I let them strike on my clockwise crossovers I changed coaches to one that helped me improve my technique, and resolved my crossover problem inside the space of about half an hour.. I really hate this draconian idea of coaching by force. We're not in the army and coaching by issuing orders and threats is actually a very innefective way of teaching.

I know it's different for every league but I think there needs to be a bit more time spent with new skaters in teaching the basics of skating before they even start on the basics of Derby.

Last edited by Salamanda; March 24th, 2011 at 10:26 AM.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 08:48 AM   #52
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I've noticed that the skaters that tend to toe drag are the ones that are mainly self-taught and didn't have anyone to tell them different until after the bad habit has set in.
I so wish this was true. My big problem here is that the league I belong too actually teaches the dragging toe stop in the Fresh Meat training program. And then the skaters get tested on it later. I've suggested trying to remove it to the training dept but so far no luck.

Try telling someone they should not do it, when they've been trained by what they believe as competent people!!!

Please can I have every ones support here!!!!
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Old March 24th, 2011, 08:54 AM   #53
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I so wish this was true. My big problem here is that the league I belong too actually teaches the dragging toe stop in the Fresh Meat training program. And then the skaters get tested on it later. I've suggested trying to remove it to the training dept but so far no luck.

Try telling someone they should not do it, when they've been trained by what they believe as competent people!!!

Please can I have every ones support here!!!!
Completely agree! One of the issues is that Derby Leagues are often set up by people with little or no experience of skating. They teach themselves, find out what works, whether or not it is a good or safe practice, and then teach the new people who join. This obviously isn't the case for every league out there but I know it happens a lot.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 09:37 AM   #54
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I'm not going to get into the debate about toe stops once again but I will say this. Every derby girl I see on crutches I and the coach of the league I ref for ask them, stops or plugs?

They all have said stops.. I think the evidence speaks for itself.
I've had the rather unfortuante luck of being in very close proximity to two skaters (one was my husband) when they broke their ankles (no it wasn't my fault!). I can say with absolute certainty that their toe stops played no part whatsoever in their accidents!
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Old March 24th, 2011, 10:11 AM   #55
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I know it's different for every league but I think there needs to be a bit more time spent with new skaters in teaching the basics of skating before they even start on the basics of Derby.
This times a billion.
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Old March 24th, 2011, 01:59 PM   #56
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my league tends to encourage people out of bad habbits over time, but if skaters are doing something that is either dangerous to themselves or others like dragging toe stops they will be doing press ups or sit ups until they no longer endanger other skaters, so far we have had no serious injury's at training, some things we have to be a bit less tollerant of
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Old March 24th, 2011, 09:00 PM   #57
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This times a billion.
And plus infinity!
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Old March 24th, 2011, 09:11 PM   #58
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And plus infinity!
To the 4th Power!!!
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Old March 24th, 2011, 10:30 PM   #59
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To the 4th Power!!!
doudled
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Old March 24th, 2011, 10:37 PM   #60
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doudled
For reals!
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