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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old July 19th, 2015, 11:02 PM   #1
macdr
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Question My skates are Loud

my best friend wanted to learn to skate so he could skate with me, and so for his birthday i bought him a pair of skates to learn on, same pair i did. nothing special, quads, 60 bucks from a sporting good store, and some cheap abec bearings from my local rink. he loves everything about them, accept for one thing. When he skates, and this is indoors at a rink, it sounds like he is riding a motorcycle. they just...roar pretty dang loud. its been so many years since i had them that i dont remember if mine were the same way. i wonder if its the wheels? or something else. is there anything i can do to quiet them down?

http://www.sportsauthority.com/produ...id&cid=Chicago,

these are what i bought him.
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Old July 19th, 2015, 11:12 PM   #2
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New bearings.
Make sure they are 22mm outer diameter, and if so get some Bones Reds for ~<$30

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Old July 19th, 2015, 11:15 PM   #3
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i use bone reds. i got him the abec equivalent, he is not using the bearings that came with the skates.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 01:32 AM   #4
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i use bone reds. i got him the abec equivalent, he is not using the bearings that came with the skates.
ABEC # is an irrelevant indicator of quality.
The decibel level tells me they are not "equivalent"

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Old July 20th, 2015, 02:03 AM   #5
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i never gave u a number. so i dont know what u are basing ur claim on. they cost the same as my bone reds. and i bought them from a friend in the industry. im telling u, the bearings are not bad
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Old July 20th, 2015, 04:22 AM   #6
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Armadillo is right about the number having no effect on quality. The ABEC rating only really means something if the bearing is spinning at 32,000 RPM and that will NEVER happen in normal skating.

I had some Bones Reds and liked them but I just got some Bones Swiss bearings and they feel so much more smooth so I would recommend those if you wanted some nicer bearings.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 06:40 AM   #7
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Armadillo is right about the number having no effect on quality. The ABEC rating only really means something if the bearing is spinning at 32,000 RPM and that will NEVER happen in normal skating.

I had some Bones Reds and liked them but I just got some Bones Swiss bearings and they feel so much more smooth so I would recommend those if you wanted some nicer bearings.
Thanks for confirming my point on the disconnect between ABEC # and quality.

Bones company does not even give any ABEC# specs for all their bearings, since they do not want people think that a higher ABEC# means better bearing performance.

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Old July 20th, 2015, 09:29 AM   #8
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ABEC ratings matter, but at what level do they make a difference. Also is the rating real or fake? Chances are if you didnt pay alot for an abec3 or higher, the bearings rating is complete bull. Also rating levels have little to nothing to do with clearances, which makes a big impact on rolling resistances. Theres alot that goes into a good bearing.

I dont like the bones company that much, they produce a fair product, thats for sure, but their marketing bs is not exactly factual.


Heres some food for thought though. Even the most garbage ABEC 1 bearings carry more precision than any other part of your skates.

Bones bearings have good "roll" not because they are superior, but because they have loose radial and axial clearances. This allows wheels with poor cores/hubs to still roll well.

When I get off work Ill write a bit on this.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 02:42 PM   #9
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This might be a stupid question, but do the bearings you put on these fit the axle right? I'm only asking because I've seen cheap skates like these (these ones actually) that the axle is not a typical 7mm or 8mm axle. They were actually closer to 6mm-ish and the 7mm bearings we tried to put on them were loose. That could make them loud.

Also, how heavy is your friend? Those wheels are pretty cheap and if there's enough weight pushing down on them they'll smash a bit. That will make them loud too. I've skated on wheels like those before and at the time I was at about 190 to 200 lbs and they were making a horrible noise and I could feel them vibrating.

Or there might just be a flat spot on a wheel.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 06:07 PM   #10
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Those are inexpensive skates, and as such the bearings (at least from this picture) appear to have "semi precision" bearings in them. They may even have built in spacers. These bearings are rather loud as the balls do not have a retainer so they rub alot. If the nuts are tightened all the way down this transmits more noise from the wheel and bearing assembly to the plate and can increase noise when parts without good precision are used.

The wheels are likely to be composed of plastic not urethane, that makes them loud as well. The cushions around the trucks are more of the same. Less urethane quality more plastic. This means less dampening.

I love spacers, but having equipment that makes them worth while is
1 not easy to come by, and
2 not cheap. (Usually)

You get what ya pay for. If you want a stealthy skate, its gonna hit harder on the pocket book. Hard wheels , even good ones, can be noisy though. Theres alot that goes into a good setup.

Im going to try to keep off the ABEC vs bones crap cause bearing talk derails threads into already covered material. If you got a bearing question just hit me up with a PM and ill give ya links to information that explains everything.
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Old July 20th, 2015, 06:42 PM   #11
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The trucks might be a tad tight. I know a lot of the cheap manufacturers especially like to send out their skates with everything cranked down so nothing falls off. That means you have essentially no suspension. If there is any sort of bumpiness to the floor, even something you don't feel, you bump up and land. And since the wheels aren't turning into the turn they will skid and chatter. You can loosen the trucks, replace the cushions, or wait for the cushions to break down. Or learn to skate with them as is.

If you haven't replaced the wheels they may be a difference hardness. Harder wheels can chatter more.

I've also had new bearings come unlubricated. Put 1 or 2 drops of 3-in-1 in each bearing to see if that fixes things.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 10:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macdr View Post
i never gave u a number. so i dont know what u are basing ur claim on. they cost the same as my bone reds. and i bought them from a friend in the industry. im telling u, the bearings are not bad
Actually, they are noisy, which doesn't make them good

All the points raised contribute to the noise, but actually putting bones reds on the skates will show the difference between junk and precision bearings, especially if bones speed creme is used for lubrication.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 01:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
ABEC ratings matter, but at what level do they make a difference. Also is the rating real or fake? Chances are if you didnt pay alot for an abec3 or higher, the bearings rating is complete bull. Also rating levels have little to nothing to do with clearances, which makes a big impact on rolling resistances. Theres alot that goes into a good bearing.

I dont like the bones company that much, they produce a fair product, thats for sure, but their marketing bs is not exactly factual.


Heres some food for thought though. Even the most garbage ABEC 1 bearings carry more precision than any other part of your skates.

Bones bearings have good "roll" not because they are superior, but because they have loose radial and axial clearances. This allows wheels with poor cores/hubs to still roll well.

When I get off work Ill write a bit on this.
Mort, I know you are aware of this info, but I also think you carry your concern for installing skate bearings into wheels to an extreme, with your emphasis on use of spacers as being a critically essential requirement.

ABEC # indicates ONLY how closely the races and balls fit together (internal clearances), and how perfectly aligned geometrically the multiple machined surfaces all are with respect to each other (wobble & run out).

The ABEC rating does NOT specify many other critical bearing performance factors, such as smoothness of the rolling contact surfaces, ball precision or quality/type of steels/ceramics used.

Actual changes in run-out between different ABEC grades
One the several bearing measurements covered by the ABEC grades is the eccentricity (roundness) of the track in the inner ring, which affects run-out. The figures given below show the maximum eccentricity allowable.

ABEC 1: 0.0075 mm (0.000295")
ABEC 3: 0.0050 mm (0.000197")
ABEC 5: 0.0035 mm (0.000138")
ABEC 7: 0.0025 mm (0.000098")
ABEC 9: 0.0012 mm (0.000047")

A cursory review of this table gives the impression that an ABEC 9 bearings can offer about SIX (6) times more accurately true circular rolling.
Gee, that seems seriously better! However if we examine the absolute total difference between the ABEC 1 and ABEC 9 specs, the relative difference in the MAGNITUDE of the run-out from one to the other is only 0.000248" - one quarter of a THOUSANDTH of an inch!!!!

Even if all the other various bearing spec accuracy measurements are combined with this one, the total amount of imperfection from an ABEC1 to an ABEC9 is very tiny.

Given the ten-fold plus higher levels of inaccuracies for the fabrication of skate wheel hubs and urethane, it is effectively impossible for a rolling skater to detect such the tiny level of bearing dimensional/geometric inaccuracy between ABEC 1 compared to an ABEC 9.

However, several of the other bearing metrics which are NOT AT ALL indicated by the ABEC #s, are very easily detectable by rolling skaters as having significant affect on their performance. So when it comes to selecting/purchasing skate bearings, and expecting to get top performance, looking ONLY at the ABEC numbers as a basis for discriminating quality is a rather poor strategy.

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 01:46 AM   #14
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Spacers arent usually a blessing. They can cause friction in most cases.(due to poor precision in parts)

It doesn't matter how well a bearing is installed into a hub. It matters on the hubs precision itself. A poor bearing bore is always going to be a bad fit and cause poor performance, no matter what bearing is in there. Loose bearing clearances help, but the wheel still wont roll very straight.

Eventually either the bearings or the hubs get slop in them. Usually the latter as wheel hubs are not as strong as a bearing. Most of my plastic wheels have hubs that were once tight and now all the bearings fall out of them if turned on their sides.

This is one of the primary reasons that Scott Corey wheels are so good.(urethane quality aside) Because his hubs are very well machined.

Richard , as you skate primarily outdoors, you wouldnt notice a superb hub over just a fair to good hub. Indoors where there are less surface variations and such so you can tell the differences easier.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 11:56 AM   #15
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Richard , as you skate primarily outdoors, you wouldnt notice a superb hub over just a fair to good hub. Indoors where there are less surface variations and such so you can tell the differences easier.
Agreed, I do skate more hours/miles outdoors on less precision plastic hub wheels for most of a year, but with the November-March weather here in Chicago, I still do rack up a lot of indoor speed training time too.

I do own and roll a set of metal hub RB Turbo wheels with micro bearings fitted to them using bearing sleeves, but you are correct that my less demanding indoor skating time (than yours) makes me less likely to need or notice some of the more suttle issues of highest level bearing performance.

My point though was more to the fact that the total range of dimensional inaccuracies that the ABEC# 1-9 scale covers is very narrow, and expecting these numbers to be useful as the primary tool for indicating/comparing/projecting bearing performance is senseless, especially when so many other bearing parameters/characteristics have a so much greater impact on the actual skates on feet & rolling results.

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 01:24 PM   #16
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Cool mine sound like a freight train....

.....especially on a seasoned maple floor, and the music stops, all you can hear is my skates, they 'roar' as I roll along. I love it. Between my bones turbo 101 having hard urethane and a big hub, and my bones swiss bearings, my skates scream.

Point is, they roll for days, it requires me little effort to skate faster than most for literaly hours on end. I would not change a thing
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 01:32 PM   #17
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Agreed, I do skate more hours/miles outdoors on less precision plastic hub wheels for most of a year, but with the November-March weather here in Chicago, I still do rack up a lot of indoor speed training time too.

I do own and roll a set of metal hub RB Turbo wheels with micro bearings fitted to them using bearing sleeves, but you are correct that my less demanding indoor skating time (than yours) makes me less likely to need or notice some of the more suttle issues of highest level bearing performance.

My point though was more to the fact that the total range of dimensional inaccuracies that the ABEC# 1-9 scale covers is very narrow, and expecting these numbers to be useful as the primary tool for indicating/comparing/projecting bearing performance is senseless, especially when so many other bearing parameters/characteristics have a so much greater impact on the actual skates on feet & rolling results.

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Yea. Though one day Id love to test some REAL certified ABEC 1 5 and 9's out spec'd with the same clearaces, cages, lube, etc. With the only difference being the bearings precision. However you would also have to make sure the ABEC1 tolerance bearing wasnt good enough for ABEC 3 classification and likewise the ABEC5 would fail to be an ABEC7 rated bearing to really show the benefits

The hubs would have to be pretty much flawless, and the wheels turned down on a lathe before conducting the testing. Ideally you would want the axles to be equally true , as with the hanger faces cut straight etc, but it would be ok to be off a bit as long as that didn't change any. Though a pristine alignment and tolerance of other parts would possibly help show any advantages such a pristine bearing would offer.

Heh, theres not a 50,000 dollar pot for winning races on skates so that kind of stuff is of no real interest to the world. Unlike nascar or what not.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 04:34 PM   #18
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.....especially on a seasoned maple floor, and the music stops, all you can hear is my skates, they 'roar' as I roll along. I love it. Between my bones turbo 101 having hard urethane and a big hub, and my bones swiss bearings, my skates scream.

Point is, they roll for days, it requires me little effort to skate faster than most for literaly hours on end. I would not change a thing
I skated a practice with our speed team a while back with my 101 Turbos. The one coach kept turning around and asking me if I could keep the noise down a bit lol
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 10:27 PM   #19
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I skated a practice with our speed team a while back with my 101 Turbos. The one coach kept turning around and asking me if I could keep the noise down a bit lol
Hahaha, yea super hard wheels are VERY noisy.
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