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Beginning Skaters Forum This is the place for beginning skaters to ask questions and share their stories. We would love to hear about your experiences learning to skate. No question is too dumb!

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Old March 2nd, 2012, 07:19 PM   #1
Pinhy
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Default HiLo skates vs 4x / want to upgrade

I see K2 makes their Radical line with a 2x110 2x100 setup, while Rollerblade makes their Tempest line with a 3x110 1x100 (at the 2nd wheel) setup. (same setups with 100-90 skates).

I realize the goal is to lower the front of the foot, especially at the balls of the feet. Is one set-up better than the other? What are the advantages/disadvatages of each compared to a 4x setup?

Last edited by Pinhy; March 28th, 2012 at 05:35 PM. Reason: changing the "theme" of the OP
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Old March 4th, 2012, 03:38 PM   #2
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110 isn't even for some experienced pro skaters. Just a matter of mechanics. It make sense only for real strong skaters and larger people.

Even then it is a big jump. I wouldn't recommend anyone on 110's until they mastered 100's for at least 6 months and/or around 2000 miles.

Other than indoor skating, I hate HiLo setups (different wheels sizes). When you need to rotate them it is hard to get them to all be lined up when you are forced to put a particular wheel in a fixed spot.

Also you have to buy in broken lots.



Think about a 100mm (4x100) setup. There are a jillion choices. Of course talk to your homies.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #3
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Unbeknownst to me when I posted this, a female friend finally ordered a set of the Rollerblade Tempest's and they arrived Friday. She hasn't skated on them yet, but I am interested to see what she thinks. She is coming off 90's, and these wheels are HUGE. She did roll around her house and said they felt like wearing 5" heels.

I'm not seriously considering 110's for myself. Maybe 100's for our nice smooth, level, easy trail skates. Keeping the 84's for urban/neighborhood skates. Main query was about the HiLo setups.

I had already given the different wheel sizes a thought, and would really prefer a straight 4x setup. Good brands for this? Still need a good supportive boot, no racing boots.

Last edited by Pinhy; March 5th, 2012 at 12:14 AM.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 05:20 PM   #4
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If you do get a 110 frame I wouldn't get the hybrid, reason being that it limits you too much. If you went with a 4x110 you could put smaller wheels on it and then progress to the 110s when you are ready. Personally, I would pick the K2 over Rollerblade because the K2 has a much better (less flimsy) frame.
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Old March 4th, 2012, 06:55 PM   #5
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What Sheldon said.

A 4x110 is not only tall and 'geared' high due to the big wheels, but the frame length is comparable to a 5x84, not a 4x. That's big in terms of how it responds, how much power it takes to push etc. - both length and wheels size can pay off in speed, but cost in learning curve.

I'd never say 'don't even think about it'. But I would say 'think twice' and 'plan on spending a lot of time on 90s or 100s first'. But really, a 12.8" 4x100 is probably all the frame you'll ever use until/unless you actually go full on speed racer.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 12:14 AM   #6
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As I mentioned, Im not considering 110's for myself in the near future. I was wondering about the differences between the 2x2 or 3x1? Even on the 100's Rollerblade and K2 insert a 90 (or 2).

Who makes a good 4x skate?
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Old March 5th, 2012, 02:48 AM   #7
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Didn't mean to ignore, just don't have as much experience there. Except:

HiLo setups are generally to cram as many big wheels in a particular length frame as possible, IE maximize the roll for someone who can't practically skate more length (13.2") to get all bigger wheels. That seems like a good tradeoff to me only if you're racing and that speed will make a difference to you. Otherwise the wheel wear and other headaches seem to be too much trouble vs. a straight 4x, but.. I've never skated one. The boot/frame need to be very well matched to be lower than a straight 4x too.

As far as the 4x90/4x100 range rec skates go - I can't speak from experience with K2, but I agree the RB frames aren't great.

My lady's very happy with her RB boot - a women's specific speedmachine (I think the RX?) that came with a 4x90mm frame. Strong, light & responsive boot, but a crap OE frame. She's tiny, weighs all of 100lbs wet, and still hated the feel.

Thankfully it's a proper 195mm mount, so I threw a spare Salomon 4x100 (12.8") on there and she's loved it ever since. We still do 90mm indoor, but 100's work great for her on trails.
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Old March 5th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #8
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Ignoring the wheel size discussion, Hi-Lo is a pain for outdoor skating because you cannot do a full wheel rotation. I have some older Salomon FSKs with 2 x 76 and 2 x 80. Because I like to slide and use them for outdoor hockey I go through more 80mm wheels because I cannot put them onto the front two poistions.

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Old March 5th, 2012, 10:39 PM   #9
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Default Also Interested in InLine HiLo

Hi

I too am interested in why and what is the advantage of these things.

I have only seen them used indoors in rinks, and the skaters that have used them have not been that good. The wheel size is closer to what InLina posted i.e. less than 84. The aggressive young guy skaters I am recently skating with at least once a week skate far better than those that I have seen on hi_lo sets. It seemed odd to me to do aggressives' indoors yet they do really well. Yet that is just my observation. Again interested in why?

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
P.S. Not responding to PMs o-o Sorry yet this note interested me
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Old March 6th, 2012, 01:14 AM   #10
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Wow...just to add more confusion to the mix: The 2012 RB Tempest 100 is as I posted above, a 3x100 1x90 setup.

HOWEVER.... I just saw a review of the 2011 version, and it is not the same. It has 2x100 in the inner wheels, and 2x110 on the outer wheels! Not sure if this is actually taking full advantage of the 110 wheel, but it is the 100 line, so I guess any larger wheel is better than 100's. AND, it would make the rotating and purchasing new wheel thing MUCH easier.

(But I guess it wasnt that popular as they stopped doing it this year )
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Old March 6th, 2012, 04:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MANY_SkatingDave View Post
Hi

I too am interested in why and what is the advantage of these things.

I have only seen them used indoors in rinks, and the skaters that have used them have not been that good. The wheel size is closer to what InLina posted i.e. less than 84. The aggressive young guy skaters I am recently skating with at least once a week skate far better than those that I have seen on hi_lo sets. It seemed odd to me to do aggressives' indoors yet they do really well. Yet that is just my observation. Again interested in why?
Do you want a full history on the development of hi-lo and discussion on it's merits? I wrote it in an online forum somewhere. I can either dig it out or re-write it if I cannot find it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhy View Post
Wow...just to add more confusion to the mix: The 2012 RB Tempest 100 is as I posted above, a 3x100 1x90 setup.

HOWEVER.... I just saw a review of the 2011 version, and it is not the same. It has 2x100 in the inner wheels, and 2x110 on the outer wheels! Not sure if this is actually taking full advantage of the 110 wheel, but it is the 100 line, so I guess any larger wheel is better than 100's. AND, it would make the rotating and purchasing new wheel thing MUCH easier.
The 2011 version sounds better from a wheel rotation perspective, but I guess it may not have been viewed a favorably from the customer's perspective (performance expectation or competitive benchmark comparison) so they changed.

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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhy View Post
As I mentioned, Im not considering 110's for myself in the near future. I was wondering about the differences between the 2x2 or 3x1? Even on the 100's Rollerblade and K2 insert a 90 (or 2).

Who makes a good 4x skate?
Advantages:
-Lower height from ground
-shorter frame with some of the big wheel advantages(roll, grip)

Disadvantages
-wheel rotation is a pain
-can feel odd in the turns on an indoor surface
-might have to buy two complete sets of wheels to get the two sizes since not all venders will sell wheels individually
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Old March 7th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #13
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The K2 2x100 2x90 setup, or the RB 110-100-100-110, (and 4x100 of course) would be better for wheel rotation/replacement.....but maybe some of the other setups performance outweigh the wheel issue? Maybe they dont?

Also the price of the skate to start with (the 100 with 110's on the outside is more expensive than other 100 skates)
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Old March 7th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhy View Post
The K2 2x100 2x90 setup, or the RB 110-100-100-110, (and 4x100 of course) would be better for wheel rotation/replacement.....but maybe some of the other setups performance outweigh the wheel issue? Maybe they dont?

Also the price of the skate to start with (the 100 with 110's on the outside is more expensive than other 100 skates)
Typically, hybrids do not work well for wheel rotation. This is also true for the 110-100-100-110 setups because you would normally rotate the end wheels into the middle to even out the wear. You can't do that with any of today's hybrids. You would have to make a funky 110-100-110-100 hybrid in order to have a rotatable setup.

In my experience, there is very little gained by using a 110-100-100-110 setup vs a 4x100. We tried my wife on that style of hybrid for competition and it actually slowed her down even though the overall length and height were the same. Getting big 110 size wheels moving, especially on hills, can be a challenge.

The 3n1 hybrids do have a performance gain over a 4x100, but you have to deal with the wheel issues.

Outside of speed skating and competitive hockey, I don't think there is much advantage to using hybrids. I am not sure why the fitness skate companies are moving in that direction.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #15
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Thanks Kuf (and others).

Considering I am just looking for something bigger for my trail skates, and not for a competitive activity, it will probably come down to price, looks and availability whenever I get around to pulling the trigger.

Or maybe just the mood I am in that day
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Old March 8th, 2012, 05:46 AM   #16
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Some background on hi-lo I put together:

A Brief History of Hi-Lo Inline Skates

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Old March 13th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #17
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Default Switching to a related topic:

Bearings?!

Looking at all these different larger-wheeled skates, I notice they all have different bearings.

ILQ 7/9, SG9 & HTO Pro, seem to be the common ones.

And I've read about Bones Reds and Swiss being better (for example 1 site sells the Tempest's with the HTO Pro bearings, and lets you upgrade to Bones Swiss & Super Swiss for $80, Ceramic Reds for $130, and K2 ILQ 9 for $55). I dont think I would ever spend that kind of additional money at original purchase, as Im sure the stock are fine for my purposes. But when looking for replacements, I would look into it.

I've found MANY threads that mention the word "bearings" and have sifted through some. What I would really like to see is a "bearings rating/pricing list". Is there a thread or good place to see this?
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Old March 13th, 2012, 10:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinhy View Post
Bearings?!

Looking at all these different larger-wheeled skates, I notice they all have different bearings.

ILQ 7/9, SG9 & HTO Pro, seem to be the common ones.

And I've read about Bones Reds and Swiss being better (for example 1 site sells the Tempest's with the HTO Pro bearings, and lets you upgrade to Bones Swiss & Super Swiss for $80, Ceramic Reds for $130, and K2 ILQ 9 for $55). I dont think I would ever spend that kind of additional money at original purchase, as Im sure the stock are fine for my purposes. But when looking for replacements, I would look into it.

I've found MANY threads that mention the word "bearings" and have sifted through some. What I would really like to see is a "bearings rating/pricing list". Is there a thread or good place to see this?

This thread
seems to have a decent discussion of the merits/advantages/disadvantages of various bearings - can't say I've heard of HTO but a quick google indicates they're a Rollerblade brand?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #19
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Thanks! Seems like an informative thread. Didnt see it on the first page or so of my search since it's from 2010.

I'll read through it all at home.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 04:12 PM   #20
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Pinhy, my new wheels should be here this week. I'm going to a rocker setup but, l'm getting in the Freestyle Slalom.
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