DA45 Noobs: Pivot Pins and Initial Setup

[Rattybabe]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

I like how they skate. I love the way they turn. Sometimes they are a bit too much for me to control and sometimes they decide to go off in their own direction, or throw me on my ass. Those times as I lay winded I do think maybe I should have started on something else!

I actually don't think I could part with them. The only reason I worry about what I'm doing with the pins is because I'm attached to them already!

I have wondered if I have done the right thing starting on Avengers, but I think it's better for me to learn to skate them now, rather than learning on other plates, and then having to re-learn DA45's!!

[Armadillo]

Originally Posted by Rattybabe

I have wondered if I have done the right thing starting on Avengers, but I think it's better for me to learn to skate them now, rather than learning on other plates, and then having to re-learn DA45's!!

If your skate setup does not have really good freedom of action, learning balance is a much more difficult and slower process. With too stiff an action setup, you learn how your skates can balance you, but at the expense of giving up good turning response.
With a freed up action, you learn how YOU can balance on your skates while they are still able to turn sharply, quickly, and with minimum foot force applied.
Having to fight your skates with too much foot force to make them tilt enough to give a decent turning response makes it more difficult to learn the nuances of balance, and how the slight alterations of your foot's focus of weight can alter the direction of your skate.

When you place your skate back down on the floor, it needs to land at the spot below you that will be directly under your focus of weight as your other foot comes up off the floor. When the skate goes off in an unexpected direction, it is from misplacing the skate under you too far offset from the focus of the weight that is arriving on the skate.
Balance is learning how to keep your skates located directly under your focus of weight (and focus of your push) at all times. Although the free suspension will more dramatically and easily shoot out from under you when you mess up with your foot placement location, it is precisely this kind of instant feedback that you need from your skate to really feel and master your balance.

-Armadillo

[Doc Sk8]

Nice explanation Richard....

I may have said this before but it is important to understand... Stiff suspensions hold the sk8r up both physically and skills wise, but that also means the sk8s are in control of or have a disproportionate amount of control of what is happening.

How do I know this?? From many years of adjusting sk8s for sk8rs that come to me and say "My sk8s are doing 'X' (X being some sort of undesired behavior) Can you please tighten these up??" First thing I do is check how tight their suspension is.. I'd say 80-85% of the time the required fix is loosen the action a bit... Just did it for 2 sk8rs with new sk8s Wednesday nights.. the other 15-20% are truly scary. Missing pivot cups, adjustable pivots not adjusted properly, rotted cushions, seized bearings, loose king pins, plates coming off boots and etc etc etc.... Yeah, a lot of sk8rs drag them out after 15 or 20 years and wonder why they can't sk8...

On the other hand, a compliant suspension puts the sk8r in charge... Whether they wish to be or not.... The more compliant the suspension, the stronger the sk8r needs to be to control the action... A too compliant suspension will do exactly what you tell it to do and in this case, what you think you are communicating to your sk8s is not necessarily the message your sk8s get...

Fortunately most sk8s have adjustable suspensions so they can be tuned to the sk8rs needs. That means they can be tuned to help the sk8r improve their skills..

Read all about it right here on SkateLog Forum.. Lots of "interesting" discussion all over the forums about cushion selection, adjustment techniques, the results expected vs. achieved and etc.. Always remember, YMMV..

[Rattybabe]

Mine currently have purple cushions on them. I loosened them up a bit, and when I skated on them on Wednesday, they felt far too squirrely. You have to bear in mind that I'm 38 years old, and have only been skating again for a month - after over 20 years not skating at all!

I am going to try them with red cushions for a few weeks, and then back to the purples when I feel more confident and a bit fitter. I am extremely out of shape right now, and feel I need a bit more strength in my legs before having too much action in my plates.

[Doc Sk8]

Originally Posted by Rattybabe

I am going to try them with red cushions for a few weeks, and then back to the purples when I feel more confident and a bit fitter. I am extremely out of shape right now, and feel I need a bit more strength in my legs before having too much action in my plates.

Exactly what you need to do..

[Rattybabe]

Originally Posted by Doc Sk8

Exactly what you need to do..

Thank-you. I have seen so many people say "nooo - don't use red cushions, it's a waste on that plate", but I'd rather go slowly, than flailing around with too much action!

[Doc Sk8]

Originally Posted by Rattybabe

Thank-you. I have seen so many people say "nooo - don't use red cushions, it's a waste on that plate", but I'd rather go slowly, than flailing around with too much action!

Don't get comfy on them!! The masses are correct.. I also feel they are wasted on the Avenger or any other DA45..but getting your legs under you and then working your way to more response and control is just what the Dr. ordered..
So remember to loosen the action 1/4 turn (every session, every week or every couple of weeks) until you can turn the small retainer easily with your fingers.. That is about 1/4 to 1/2 turn away from rattly loose...Then change to the next softer cushions and tighten them up.. How fast you progress will be up to you..

[Rattybabe]

Oh don't worry - I will work my way towards softer cushions, because I did enjoy how easily they turned!

I didn't originally choose these skates for the plate - I wanted a decent starter skate, but wanted to avoid Riedells, because I have very wide feet. So the Rebel Avenger package seemed like the way to go.

Of course now I understand about plates, I will make the most of my choice, although I suspect that if all goes well, I will be thinking of upgrading to a Mag Avenger with a Bont boot by the end of the year!

[Knighttime]

So why isn't this thread stickied?

[rufusprime99]

Originally Posted by Knighttime

So why isn't this thread stickied?

I have asked the mods. Approaching 7000 reads for an important maintenance function on a skate. Plus it not just MY take on things, it includes G-No's info, and Doc's post of Snyder info. (I still need to add a link for Reserectors video) Sure sounds like sticky material.

Google "DA45 pivot pin" and this is the number one result. And yes, I am pretty proud of that. (Google "DA45 skate review" and the first result is my "DA45 Magnum Short Plate Skate Review" Just over 13k views on that one. And yeah, I got an ego, and I am pretty proud of that too. ) (I go check my numbers when I am feeling low )

Perhaps if a few dozen people reminded the mods to sticky this it will make it.

[melligator]

Originally Posted by rufusprime99

Having them short is not quite as bad as having them long, but having them right is best. The Pivot Pin Neutral Point detailed in the thread, is a better way of making sure that the pins are set very close to correct BEFORE you put your cone cushion or king pin nut on.

In brief, with the king pin nut and cone cushion off, look down from the top of the king pin and see if it is centered in the middle of the hole of the truck. If a pivot pin is long, the side of the truck nearer the pivot pin will be close to the king pin, not centered. If the pivot pin is short, the side of the truck farthest from the pivot pin will be nearer the king pin, not centered. But when the pivot pin is the right length, the king pin will appear dead center of the hole in the truck, with the truck resting on the barrel cushion, pivot pin in its' cup. Now put on the cone and king pin nut on and you should be in good adjustment. If you crank your cushions down a bit tighter, you MAY need to shorten just a bit. But in any case, this method is a great way of making sure that all the pivot pins are set the same to start with, and will already be the right length, or VERY close, and you won't need man hands to check it.

Aaaaah yes! I couldn't get any play out of the pin all tightened down either - now I got it to neutral.

I messed up bad yesterday - first time on my new avenger plate and I'd swapped in my yellow-green riedell cushions because I don't know why and the action was cranked down so tight and weird that I couldn't even stride straight on the banked track. Feeling much better about my next skate now I feel like I have a handle on what is going on down there.

[rufusprime99]

Originally Posted by melligator

Aaaaah yes! I couldn't get any play out of the pin all tightened down either - now I got it to neutral.

I messed up bad yesterday - first time on my new avenger plate and I'd swapped in my yellow-green riedell cushions because I don't know why and the action was cranked down so tight and weird that I couldn't even stride straight on the banked track. Feeling much better about my next skate now I feel like I have a handle on what is going on down there.

Lol. My own messing up, over about a 3 week period is what led me to the Pivot Pin Neutral Point.
I messed up all over the place, and badly.

But it worked out in the end. Glad this was helpful.

This thread is up about 4k hits from last year. 11k total. NICE.

[melligator]

Originally Posted by rufusprime99

Lol. My own messing up, over about a 3 week period is what led me to the Pivot Pin Neutral Point.
I messed up all over the place, and badly.

But it worked out in the end. Glad this was helpful.

This thread is up about 4k hits from last year. 11k total. NICE.

Eyeballing where the truck was sitting over the single cushion is the key thing I needed, also i looked up the durometer of the cushions and realised that was a dumb move. I went from wanting to burn the things last night, to turny and fun and somehow more stable tonight. I did NOT have three weeks to tool around, so thank goodness for you guys and this thread! Excited for scrimmage on Thursday!

[Reserector]

Originally Posted by rufusprime99

I have asked the mods. Approaching 7000 reads for an important maintenance function on a skate. Plus it not just MY take on things, it includes G-No's info, and Doc's post of Snyder info. (I still need to add a link for Reserectors video) Sure sounds like sticky material.

Google "DA45 pivot pin" and this is the number one result. And yes, I am pretty proud of that. (Google "DA45 skate review" and the first result is my "DA45 Magnum Short Plate Skate Review" Just over 13k views on that one. And yeah, I got an ego, and I am pretty proud of that too. ) (I go check my numbers when I am feeling low )

Perhaps if a few dozen people reminded the mods to sticky this it will make it.

Git' 'er done! http://southernskater.com/Thread-How...and-pivot-pins

That is not a direct link, as I can't see YouTube at work, but you can link directly to YouTube if you prefer.
BTW, there are 2,000 hits on that link alone. It IS a popular subject. It really does need to be stickied here, as it is on SS. Too much awsome goodness to let it slip down the list.

[rufusprime99]

Originally Posted by Reserector

Git' 'er done! http://southernskater.com/Thread-How...and-pivot-pins

That is not a direct link, as I can't see YouTube at work, but you can link directly to YouTube if you prefer.
BTW, there are 2,000 hits on that link alone. It IS a popular subject. It really does need to be stickied here, as it is on SS. Too much awsome goodness to let it slip down the list.

Got 'er done. Right up top.

Thanks for the vid!

[Knighttime]

Sticky sticky sticky sticky...

[polishedball]

Any updated links, these all now are page not found. Thanks

[rufusprime99]

Originally Posted by polishedball

Any updated links, these all now are page not found. Thanks

I am guessing you are looking for the video. This is the video originally linked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CdUTTyFFMw

As for the text explanantion, the first page should do, with some Q&A that follows.