Improving Aerobic Efficiency - The case for low Heart Rate Zone training

[online inline]

Originally Posted by evilzzz

I don't disagree with that. We seem to have had this discussion on the other training thread..

the easy days need to be easy and the hard days need to be hard, but the hard days should never be so hard or such a large % of your volume that it causes any regression in your base... which unfortunately often the case. If that begins happening, then training harder will ironically only make things worse - the only solution then is to cut your anaerobic work and go back to fixing the base.

what you are referring to is the concept of recovery and rest. That is important, but not the same thing as structuring a work out plan to include workouts that tax different parts of your metabolism. Maybe you are familiar with Speed on Skates, bu Barry Publow? On page 159, he says:

Which is Best? (Continuous training or Interval Training) Answering the question of which type of training is better for a speedskater prompts some evasion of at least a compromise. Both methods should be used! The two types of training exert different stimuli on the body, and together they produce adaptations that contribute to increased ability and improved performance. Interval- and continuous-training methods complement each other in preparing for competitive demands. But you must combine them carefully to ensure a balanced training regimen.

This are very general concepts. Actually implementing them is significantly more complicated, filled with nuance and subtlety, and matters of degree that are hard to get even close to right. For that reason, one would ideally work with a coach, more experienced skaters with proven results, a very detailed training book as the one mentioned above, or all of these.

[theDonnybrook]

Originally Posted by online inline

This are very general concepts. Actually implementing them is significantly more complicated, filled with nuance and subtlety, and matters of degree that are hard to get even close to right. For that reason, one would ideally work with a coach, more experienced skaters with proven results, a very detailed training book as the one mentioned above, or all of these.

The whole second half of that book has great resources for training plans specific to speed skating. The guy that posts http://fasterasamaster.wordpress.com is doing a series on similar topics, also, but he skates ice. I think we can learn a lot from the ice guys, too, though. Both are necessary, the plan is what matters.

[AZ Roadrunner]

What hasn't been mentioned is age. Barry Publow's training routines are fine if you're 25. Age does factor into training routines. Unfortunately few recognize this and fewer write about it. I know everyone believes they can train like a 20 yr. old even at 50, yes you can for a short period of time until you're totally over training and going backwards instead of forwards.

It took me years to figure this out. I had been over training for too many years. Once I did figure this out my skating really took off. Most all the training materials and routines are geared to the 25 yr. old. It's tough to restrain from over training. Once you figure this out your skating will make positive forward momentum, balanced regular training is the key.

[theDonnybrook]

Originally Posted by AZ Roadrunner

What hasn't been mentioned is age. Barry Publow's training routines are fine if you're 25. Age does factor into training routines. Unfortunately few recognize this and fewer write about it. I know everyone believes they can train like a 20 yr. old even at 50, yes you can for a short period of time until you're totally over training and going backwards instead of forwards.

This raises an interesting issue. Aging has a big impact on our physical ability, driven by a lot of factors, one of which is how our hormones change. Joe Friel did an extensive series on aging that ran for 6 months. I know he coaches cyclists and triathletes, but I think the sports science is consistent for what happens as we age. It was started by his musings after a bad crash. I couldn't cherry pick the posts without missing the whole point. Basically, as we age, we need more recovery time, and we need to work longer for the same results. For the super geeks that want to know way too much about this kind of thing, a list of his posts follow:

Aging: My Eyes
Aging: My Recovery
Aging: Update on recovery and vision
Aging: My Race Weight
Aging: My Performance
Aging: Research
Aging: More on Science
Aging: What's Happening to My Muscles
Aging: What's behind the decline
Aging: Is it Just a Number in Your Head
Aging: An Excuse
Aging: Your Aerobic Capacity
Aging: High Intensity Training
Aging: Muscle, Strength and Performance
Aging: A Clarification
Aging: The Problems of High Intensity Training
Aging: Hormones, Training, Risk and Reward
Aging: Risk, Dose and Intensity
Aging: Designing a Microcycle to Match Your Recovery
Aging: Matching the Mesocycle to your Recovery
Aging: Flexible Periodization
Aging: Customizing the Prep Period
Aging: Customizing the Base Period
Aging: Other Base Period Training and Microcycles
Aging: Customizing the Peak Period
Aging: Customizing the Race Period
Aging: The Veteran's Transition Period
Aging: The Last Post

[Code Monkey]

Yep, soon to be 59 myself. Something you forgot to mention you young whipper-snapper...Donnybrook.

I can miss a week of skating and it takes two weeks to get it back. sigh.

But it doesn't bother me for some bizarre reason. I just think how fortunate I am to be able to skate.

[theDonnybrook]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey

Yep, soon to be 59 myself. Something you forgot to mention you young whipper-snapper...Donnybrook.

No spring chicken myself, and crossing that barrier of 30 had more negative effects on my physical performance than I could have imagined. Missing a week won't set me back two, but it certainly sets me back. I need more recovery time, also. I remember when I was in my late teens and early 20s racing motocross. I would be sore after the first couple of long rides, but after that, wouldn't get sore until the start of the next season. DOMS wore off a lot more quickly then, too. Now, a heavy lift means DOMS for 4+ days.

[evilzzz]

Originally Posted by theDonnybrook

This raises an interesting issue. Aging has a big impact on our physical ability, driven by a lot of factors, one of which is how our hormones change. Joe Friel did an extensive series on aging that ran for 6 months. I know he coaches cyclists and triathletes, but I think the sports science is consistent for what happens as we age. It was started by his musings after a bad crash. I couldn't cherry pick the posts without missing the whole point. Basically, as we age, we need more recovery time, and we need to work longer for the same results. For the super geeks that want to know way too much about this kind of thing, a list of his posts follow:

Cheers.. I love Joe Friel. He's a legend and I think his training principles can be applied almost universally to any sport.

It's very interesting to read what he has to say on diet, too. Like with any good coach he evolves his view on the best evidence at the time, and has recently come around to favouring a higher fat paleo diet: (http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/08...ce-weight.html) Maffetone has been preaching this for approach for years even before the modern LCHF/Paleo movement. Friel & Maffetone are able to join it all up - they recognise that diet and performance are intrinsically linked, and a well-formulated diet will keep you aerobic more readily both during exercise and during normal everyday activity.

[Code Monkey]

If you are like me one thing you may look forward to as you age and that is... I am sore all the time. I'm sore right now.

Warm ups take a good twenty minutes although I got mine from an excellent book I read on athletic mind/body training, so it is more than just warming up the body, I do a mind focusing process also. Now this may be necessary or for me it is and maybe that is because I am getting a bit older.

Soreness. I look at it as a blessing. May sound strange but to me it just shows I am developing. I can tell because all this skating is great to do despite being sore is that I find many people many thirty years younger than me that are in very bad physical shape. People my age, it is way up there. I find on some of my skates people maybe ten to fifteen years younger than me who are walking and feel that is exercise, and they are correct. It is just I am on the street zooming around trying to lunge forward more, stay low and crank harder breathing very deeply, that is exercise to me. Big difference.

My diet which I do believe has helped me tremendously and has reversed cardiovascular disease which I once had but no more, is get one of those super blenders, I currently have a Magic Bullet but any will do and blend veggies, fruits and whey and sometimes hemp protein and drink this twice a day plus eat other meals. Very easy to do and over time you will feel and see the difference, plus food bills go down.

[esef]

Reviving this revelatory old thread. I've been doing it all wrong in every sport my whole life. Wow. Any further thoughts on this issue?

Also, I'd like to add that my MAF pace is absolutely horrid. Like 6 mph at 142-ish bpm. I dunno if that means I have a ton of room for improvement or what. I'm 36 and 158 lbs. Not overweight.