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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old July 24th, 2016, 07:03 PM   #1
mamaderuby
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Default Dance skates

Hi. I am looking for some advice. My daughter is a freestyle skater who started skating with a Show Group last year and is now trying to persuade her trainer to start up Solo Dance training too. She has just switched from Risport Ambra/Roll line Mistral to Edea Fly /Roll line Mistral (for size). So far, she has skated Show in these skates with Roll line Ice wheels. My question is: would it be worth buying her a dedicated Dance set-up. Roll-line Dance plate with Edea Classica or Flamenco boot? Or the paioli Butterfly Dance plate? Has anyone tried this plate ot heard any reviews of it? I am not familiar with Paioli at all. Please help. Many thanks..
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Old July 24th, 2016, 08:07 PM   #2
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Hi Mamaderuby,

It really depends on your daughter and how well she can cope with a different setup as she switches disciplines.

I knew many top level competitive skaters back in the day that had a pair of skates for each discipline.

As for me, I was primarily freestyle but I also did dance and figures. I used the same skate for each discipline. I found that I could do all the steps and leans and pushes with my freestyle skates and I didn't want to get use to the different feel of a different setup on a different skate for dance and figures.
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Old July 25th, 2016, 12:36 AM   #3
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Thanks. That is an answer I was kind of hoping for! She is 12 years old and foot size euro 39 (US 5?). I will wait a year or so and see if her foot grows any bigger, and how she is getting on with current skates for dance, before committing to any unnecessary expenditure. I will revisit idea at that time. Thanks again.
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Old July 25th, 2016, 11:11 AM   #4
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the only really time she would need a dedicated boot is when shes more advanced or if she were doing figures or loops otherwise its ok the way it is. good luck
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Old July 25th, 2016, 04:30 PM   #5
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Thankyou
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Old July 25th, 2016, 05:38 PM   #6
inverse137
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The Fly boot is REALLY stiff for dance. I would go with a softer boot for dance.
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Old July 25th, 2016, 11:35 PM   #7
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Hmmmm...Fly is a 50, Ambras were a 40. I could probably pick up a 2nd hand freestyle set with a softer boot and a lower level plate for quite cheap. I can't find 2nd hand dance sets anywhere and new are really quite expensive (although cheaper here in Spain than US). Is there really much difference between a dance plate and a freestyle plate? I am now wondering if I could mount a dance boot or even a soft freestyle boot (Edea Brio?) to her "old" Mistral plates for dance. Is the plate size 140 just too short for boot size 260?
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Old July 26th, 2016, 11:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaderuby View Post
Hmmmm...Fly is a 50, Ambras were a 40. I could probably pick up a 2nd hand freestyle set with a softer boot and a lower level plate for quite cheap. I can't find 2nd hand dance sets anywhere and new are really quite expensive (although cheaper here in Spain than US). Is there really much difference between a dance plate and a freestyle plate? I am now wondering if I could mount a dance boot or even a soft freestyle boot (Edea Brio?) to her "old" Mistral plates for dance. Is the plate size 140 just too short for boot size 260?
u could mount a dance boot or soft freestyle boot to her old plate. but let her try them and see how she likes the new ones for dance, some people use a stiff boot in dance also, preference.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 01:36 PM   #9
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Smile Wow, there is a lot of good information in this post.

I saw a chart online and it said the 140 plate was kind of short for a 260 boot.

I was wondering if your money would be better spent trying to figure out what wheels she will need when skating dance compared to freestyle in the many different venues you would be competing on. Different floors and different skating disciplines might require a special wheel for each event and for each floor competing on.

Most people have been pushing the energy plate for freestyle.

And I don't think anybody is against the "Dance" Roll Line plate.

The other plate there doesn't seem to be much information on?

Personally it seems many want a soft, comfortable boot for dance.

In the last two months I have been really thinking about Dance skates.

From the people skating at Fountain Valley, Ca these ideas have popped into my head.

1) Custom Harlick Boots for dance.

2) "Dance" Roll-line plates with titanium axles.

3) Ceramic Bearings

4) And the wheels of your choice for Maximum Roll depending on the skating surface you will be competing on.

It seems when you skate dance you skate these big huge lobes. And you skate really fast and there seems to be a lot of big leans going on.

So, you need a flexible boot, you need a comfortable boot, You absolutely need a custom fitted boot. You want the wheels that roll the farthest distance and you want the best bearings you can buy.

Those are my two cents for the serious skater. Your daughter might not be there yet, and anything that works is probably OK.


Sincerely,

Larry Otani

P.S. But keep in mind the wheels and bearings.
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Old July 26th, 2016, 06:48 PM   #10
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Hi. She has been using the Roll line Ice 92A wheels for Show this past year just for competitions as they always compete on smooth quite slippery wooden floors but they train on cement. They are the only club in our province that still don't have a purpose built indoor rink...soon...fingers crossed. They train with their freestyle wheels. So far, she has been doing fine with the Ambra boot for dance, have still to see how she gets on with the harder Fly. She would LOVE an Energy plate, but as she is just starting with double jumps, I can't really justify the cost. What hardness Dance wheels would you recommend for outdoor rink? It is quite smooth. For freestyle she wears mix of Giotto 57D/53D/49D.Maybe 97A ? She does have ceramic bearings in Ice wheels. They are Std (a Spanish manufacturer). Our favourite bearings are still Bones Swiss or Reds though.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 09:49 AM   #11
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Smile Mamaderuby I cannot answer your question.

Quote:
What hardness Dance wheels would you recommend for an outdoor rink?
Quote:
Maybe 97A ?
Maybe.......??????

I'm willing to bet your coach will know what wheels to use for dance. And those are the wheels you should get....lol! End of story!

Personally what I fear is if you have to use different set of wheels for Dance as compared to Freestyle.

It's a pain to change wheels on a daily basis. So, maybe your idea of getting a cheap pair of used freestyle plates and putting you Ambra/Dance boots on them with a set dance wheels your coach recommends might be the hot ticket. You might have to go to two different pair of skates for convenience.

At Fountain Valley, Ca there are a lot of Dance Skaters who skate school Figures and they all have two different pair of skates.

We don't have a lot of Freestyle skaters who Skate Dance. Tommi gets by with one pair of skates, but I change my wheels on a daily basis depending if I'm doing freestyle or dance and I don't like changing the wheels and I'm thinking about getting a second pair of skates....lol!


Good luck,

Larry O
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Old July 27th, 2016, 12:31 PM   #12
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Hi. Coach is wonderfully experienced freestyle coach but as Show and Dance are new ventures for Club, coach and skaters, we need all advice we can get! So I appreciate all your input. Does anyone have an A and D shore wheel comparison chart?
Thanks again.
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Old July 28th, 2016, 09:01 AM   #13
larryoracing
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Smile Please take the following chart with a "grain of salt"..LOL!

Mamaderuby please take the following chart as just a guess of durometer hardness. My own personal stab at the question.

I was trying to put together a chart showing the comparison from different posts on this internet and the different Hardness of wheels which I was buying and the mfg giving a duro number.

This is my first attempt at a comparison. Use at your own risk...lol!

106………………….….61D
105……………………..60
104……………………..59
103……………………..58
102……………………..57
101……………………..56
100………………………55
99………………………..54
98………………………..53
97………………………..52
96………………………..51
95………………………..50
94………………………..49
93…………………….….48
92A……………….…….47


Also here is one of many links on this site talking about wheel hardness.

http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/...ad.php?t=53369

Rox'n'Roll made this post that may be relevant to you.

The Roll Line Giotto 63mm is a figure wheel. And yes, I have a set although I'm currently using Komplex in the same hardness. There is no way you'd use that for anything other than figures. They are super hard and slippery.

The only 63mm diameter wheels sold by Roll Line are either figure or dance wheels. You could use dance wheels for dance and freestyle. They have two lines the Rapido and the ICE wheel. The highest Duro they come in is a 97. If you want a slippery wheel you'd need to go with a 99A in the freestyle wheels which are only 57mm in height (or 55mm if you go with the "light.").

88, 90 and 92? I wear 97s on an uncoated wood floor! I couldn't imagine wearing an 88A and doing any sort of turn. Maybe on concrete or something. I'm always trying different hardnesses. Soft is great for pushing and holding a deep edge, but difficult on turns and if you make a mistake and stick....down you go. You have almost no ability to slide out from a bad choctaw or mohawk.


Sincerely,

Larry Otani and good luck!
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Old July 28th, 2016, 12:46 PM   #14
mamaderuby
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Thanks for that
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Old August 1st, 2016, 11:33 AM   #15
larryoracing
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Smile Mamaderuby I found these two charts, see attached links

(1) The first chart shows for

Skate Court......Uncoated Concrete....Coated Concrete

...92A....................94A-96A................98A


Link to Wheel hardness chart below:

Click on the following link to see photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140731...in/dateposted/


The second chart below shows:

For different wt skater :

Wt/lbs.......Sport Court uncoated.......Slick Surface

160+..................93A-97A...................88A-93A

130-159..............91A-95A...................88A-93A

111-129..............88A-93A...................88A-91A

<110..................88A-91A...................86A-88A



(2) link to wt to wheel hardness chart


Click on the following link to see photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/140731...n/photostream/

As always take this info with a grain of salt and use it at your own risk in assessing the grip of wheels to do Dance on your type of skating surface.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani and have fun skating Dance.



I hate to admit this but skating dance is a lot of fun.

And I think skating Creative Dance could be even more fun.

Skating singles/freestyle and figures completes the spectrum and give the skaters unlimited ways to have fun on rollers!
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Old August 3rd, 2016, 01:59 AM   #16
SSpinball
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I have been skating the Fly and Dance plate for quite some time, as soon as they were available in the US.
I still like them very much, however as stated the Fly is stiff, that can be good and bad,

also the Fly has a very high heel, I had to cut 1/4" off the height.
Love the Dance plate, and the Rapido wheels !
285 Fly boot and 170 Dance Plate, I like the fit of this combo.
the Roll Line stoppers are gone, they were way to big, and they shredded.





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Old August 3rd, 2016, 05:21 AM   #17
larryoracing
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Smile SSpinball some quick questions if you don't mind.

1) I have been thinking about buying a Roll-line dance plate and I noticed the recommended plate for a 285 boot is 180.

So by putting a 285 boot on the 170 plate this is what I would call a real short mount. It so short you even pushed the boot back over the back edge of the plate.

The mount doesn't look bad, though. It actually looks fine.

2) Do you skate any competitive dance artistic competitions?

3) Is there any particular reason you chose this "short" mount.

4) From the photos is looks like your wheels are 94A hardness. What type of surface are you skating on. Natural Wood, Concrete, Coated Concrete, etc.

The reason I ask is because in Southern Ca, a 94A Hardness I would consider a real grippy wheel. Me personally I'm skating on some pretty hard clay wheels. And I guessing the hardness is about 103A. And by the way the wheels are 40 years old, Fomac, Zephyrs, 57mm.

Thank you for any response.

Larry Otani
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Old August 3rd, 2016, 02:30 PM   #18
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I am not a competitive skater, I am age 56, I have skateded since I was 10years old,
and tried many different skate combinations, in my lifetime.
I am a free style skater with many jumps, I give skates a hard workout.
as you know the longer the more stable, the shorter the more maneuverable.
from my experience I did not want a longer plate and after several years of use, love this combo.
my floor is wood, with a poly coating, I do not skate on concrete.
I love the stability from this combo, I jump a lot if I can get a foot under me, I can land, and ride out of anything, on 1 foot.
Highly recommend this plate, it is slightly lower than most other plates.
good luck on your selection !
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 07:59 PM   #19
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Default mamaderuby

She may be able to skate freestyle and dance using the same boots and bearings. If you are so lucky that the same plate may be used then you simply replace the toe stops with toe plugs, change the wheels and adjust the pressure on the cushions. I used the same plate for figures and dance for a long time, and I used a drop of nail polish on the adjustment nut to identify the pressure setting for each discipline. I know some coaches who have their skaters use a larger size plate for freestyle than dance, so a difference in plate size would make it necessary to get a dedicated pair of skates for dance.
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Old August 27th, 2016, 08:31 PM   #20
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Default SSpinball

I like the plate and wheel you have. They may be my next choice for a new dance setup. I am 57 (almost 58) and getting back into skating after more than 20 years. I still have ATLAS dance and figure plates with Hyper dance and figure wheels. I expect they will be wearing out soon and need to be replaced. I have skated competition and I use the short mount mentioned by larryoracing to get more responsive control over my edges. As for the suggestion that the Edea Fly is too stiff for dancing, I disagree. I use Harlick boots with orthotics for tight control over my edges.
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