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Old May 29th, 2016, 05:56 PM   #21
Ancient1
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Thanks Rick

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very good point, i totally agree,,,,u could hurt yourself without the right equipment
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Old May 30th, 2016, 12:13 AM   #22
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Derrick,
Good, now you can learn jumps. Not just toe jumps but jumps in general. you need those toe stops to protected yourself from falling, so I am very glad you put them in.

As for a half mapes, it's a start. This is for CCW rotation looking from head down; Extend the left arm forward with tension, slight shoulder forward with tension, right arm to the side with not as much tension, right shoulder in line with the right arm right shoulder over your right hip, hips square with your travel, don't twist your hips. As you toe off, keep hips square, don't rotate till you pop up from your right foot and left toe stop. As you pop up, snap the left arm and shoulder that is extended in front with tension so that the shoulders are now square with your hips and slightly bring your arms in for a half mapes and all the way for a single. As you leave the floor your body is straight up and down, shoulders and hips are square, both arms are tight but brought in. Keep tension on those arms. Don't jerk, make it smooth.

You will do this "Snap" in a split second but CONTROLLED. The shoulder movement is only a few inches before it is inline (square) with your hips. Just a few inches is all you need for a half or a single mapes, the snap of the shoulders as you jump (which is a snap it self) is enough to start your rotation, moving your arms in speeds up the rotation.

In a split second you will undo your previous movement and open your arms and move that left shoulder forward which will undo your rotation.
Well I went before I read this. Zeke didn't vidoe me cause he didn't tell "the Mom" (my wife) that he qas supposed to. Tennins court is second best, but it's a pretty far second, but I will do iit in the morning.

So, so far I just do the half but I jusr started landing on one foot and it is a very deep LIF. Is this the right way to land goin CW that is?

I haven't had time to review all the information given yet.

Last edited by Derrick; May 30th, 2016 at 02:21 AM.
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Old May 30th, 2016, 12:56 AM   #23
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LIF is good, but don't get too deep an edge. Make it about as deep as your LOB was as you entered the jump.

Why not just go the extra half rotation? Just bring your free leg in after you toe off to allow your rotation to continue.




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Well I went before I read this. Zeke didn't vidoe me cause he didn't tell "the Mom" (my wife) that he qas supposed to. Tennins court is second best, but it's a pretty far second, but I will do iit in the morning.

So, so far I just do the half but I jusr started landing on one foot and it is a very deep LIF. Is this the right way to land goin CW that is?
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Old June 8th, 2016, 12:40 PM   #24
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Little progress. I need to land ROB right now I'm doing LOB (well not making it around yet, but if I did it would be LOB.)

Reasons for CCW rotation:

1. In session you nee to land ROB to finish a corner in the "regular skating direction. Otherwise you land LOB and careen accross traffic, even if you perform the jump in the middle. Which I don't prefer anyway. If you want a really good edge it's good to be heading towards a wall

2. I switched my waltz to CCW for the same reason, so if I ever want a combo, I need to be rotating CCW.


Also, I need to lower my toe stops. I have the right ones but screwed up too high as I fall off the stop and back on to the wheels when loading.
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Old June 13th, 2016, 05:08 AM   #25
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Also, I need to lower my toe stops. I have the right ones but screwed up too high as I fall off the stop and back on to the wheels when loading.
Did some tennis court practice. B tween the high heat, soft wheels and slow surface your going a bit slow. But I don't mond jump practice with this set up, but it sucks for about everything else.

Anyway, I'm having some real trouble g tting wny heigth off my toe stop. Even if I don't rotate I push hard but end up with a bwckwards bunny hop. I did attempt a full but only made it to 3/4 of the way around. I 3 turned out of trouble, but I just get no height.

I left a sample in this https://youtu.be/WCKuEoNJU4Y
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Old June 14th, 2016, 06:32 AM   #26
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Smile Keep up the good work. Success is on the way!..LOL!

A mapes jump is kind of a funny jump.

I have not tried one (Single) for a long time. It you want to know the truth, someday I hope to try a double, but…..

The key to performing a single mapes is to cock the body CCW (because you are jumping in the opposite direction about a ¼ turn). Then jerk the rotation for that ¼ turn to straight ahead to get that kick that is needed to rotate the jump.

The mapes jump is a “toe assist” jump, so you are really jumping off the LOB.

2) Once you get the body cocked (1/4 turn CCW) , you kind of time the Right foot toe assist to aid in pushing the body upwards, keeping everything on balance over the LOB skate/for landing.

The instant you take off from the LOB you have to be over the LOB for landing. If you are not over the LOB instantaneously after lift off you will not land on the LOB/how could you?

Sincerely,
Larry O

P.S. You want to be “cocked” and loaded over the LOB skate. Impulse the the Right toe assist to impact the jump at take off, with the intention of rotating over the LOB and landing the jump. Good Luck…LOL! And nice videos…Larry O
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Old June 14th, 2016, 11:41 AM   #27
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A mapes jump is kind of a funny jump.

I have not tried one (Single) for a long time. It you want to know the truth, someday I hope to try a double, but…..

The key to performing a single mapes is to cock the body CCW (because you are jumping in the opposite direction about a ¼ turn). Then jerk the rotation for that ¼ turn to straight ahead to get that kick that is needed to rotate the jump.

The mapes jump is a “toe assist” jump, so you are really jumping off the LOB.

2) Once you get the body cocked (1/4 turn CCW) , you kind of time the Right foot toe assist to aid in pushing the body upwards, keeping everything on balance over the LOB skate/for landing.

The instant you take off from the LOB you have to be over the LOB for landing. If you are not over the LOB instantaneously after lift off you will not land on the LOB/how could you?

Sincerely,
Larry O

P.S. You want to be “cocked” and loaded over the LOB skate. Impulse the the Right toe assist to impact the jump at take off, with the intention of rotating over the LOB and landing the jump. Good Luck…LOL! And nice videos…Larry O

Thanks Larry, I'll try it in the rink tonight.
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Old July 4th, 2016, 11:09 PM   #28
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A mapes jump is kind of a funny jump.

I have not tried one (Single) for a long time. It you want to know the truth, someday I hope to try a double, but…..

The key to performing a single mapes is to cock the body CCW (because you are jumping in the opposite direction about a ¼ turn). Then jerk the rotation for that ¼ turn to straight ahead to get that kick that is needed to rotate the jump.

The mapes jump is a “toe assist” jump, so you are really jumping off the LOB.

2) Once you get the body cocked (1/4 turn CCW) , you kind of time the Right foot toe assist to aid in pushing the body upwards, keeping everything on balance over the LOB skate/for landing.

The instant you take off from the LOB you have to be over the LOB for landing. If you are not over the LOB instantaneously after lift off you will not land on the LOB/how could you?

Sincerely,
Larry O

P.S. You want to be “cocked” and loaded over the LOB skate. Impulse the the Right toe assist to impact the jump at take off, with the intention of rotating over the LOB and landing the jump. Good Luck…LOL! And nice videos…Larry O
Wait a minute! I should have listened better in Sunday school. "Always looking and never seeing, always hearing and never understanding." (since it's a Biblical quote I prolly should have looked it up). I was trying to revolve around the picked skate. I'd do a quarter rotaion around the LOB, then switch to rotating around the pick. Oops, no wonder I was having so much trouble. Note to self: Let's try it the right way shall we?

Perhaps art skating doesn't lend itself to correspondence cources. Not that I'm giving up, I'm having so much fun!
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Old August 26th, 2016, 05:02 AM   #29
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Derrick,
Good, now you can learn jumps. Not just toe jumps but jumps in general. you need those toe stops to protected yourself from falling, so I am very glad you put them in.

As for a half mapes, it's a start. This is for CCW rotation looking from head down; Extend the left arm forward with tension, slight shoulder forward with tension, right arm to the side with not as much tension, right shoulder in line with the right arm right shoulder over your right hip, hips square with your travel, don't twist your hips. As you toe off, keep hips square, don't rotate till you pop up from your right foot and left toe stop. As you pop up, snap the left arm and shoulder that is extended in front with tension so that the shoulders are now square with your hips and slightly bring your arms in for a half mapes and all the way for a single. As you leave the floor your body is straight up and down, shoulders and hips are square, both arms are tight but brought in. Keep tension on those arms. Don't jerk, make it smooth.

You will do this "Snap" in a split second but CONTROLLED. The shoulder movement is only a few inches before it is inline (square) with your hips. Just a few inches is all you need for a half or a single mapes, the snap of the shoulders as you jump (which is a snap it self) is enough to start your rotation, moving your arms in speeds up the rotation.

In a split second you will undo your previous movement and open your arms and move that left shoulder forward which will undo your rotation.
Mapes rotation is easy. Checking it is difficult. I'm having trouble undoing the rotation. The spin is super fast and hard to land.
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Old August 26th, 2016, 09:19 AM   #30
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Smile I don't pretend to be the master of the Mapes jump!

Dear Derrick,

I too am learning the mapes jump as well as many others. I have the same problem. Over rotation. So, I think the key to all jumps is the "check" move or counter rotation move for the landing.

If you concentrate on jumping inwards towards the center of the body and upwards, with the intent of creating a counter rotation move at landing, I think that will be your counter rotation "check" move. It will naturally slow the rotation down so you won't over rotate.

So, with all the energy you use trying to rotate, transfer that energy into jumping upwards, with a counter rotation intent from the beginning of take off.

Try to jump square at take off. If you open the left shoulder to start the rotation, that is how you will land with the left shoulder open on the landing causing over rotation.

A good way to practice the mapes is to not rotate at all. See how fast and how high you can jump with out rotating on skates. So skate as fast as you can backwards...full speed as fast as you can go. Now jump the mapes without rotating. Try to get 1-2 feet off the ground, then land the mapes.

I spend a lot of money on freestyle lessons. Currently I am taking two a week and the first thing they teach you is to show off the jump. Stretch those arms out at landing and bring that free leg around with class and showmanship. To do all that takes time. So that means you got to get some height to get all the body position straight in the air with the time to counter rotate, stretch the free leg out and around and show off those arms at landing with head up.

Good luck!

Larry O
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Old August 26th, 2016, 11:24 AM   #31
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i think both of you are having over rotation problems because a single mapes is too easy for you and the double is trying to get around.
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Old August 30th, 2016, 10:18 AM   #32
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Talking I think your right.

Me personally I want to get an axel before I attempt the double mapes.

So, when I perform a single, I really want to throw the double, but I have just not got the courage yet to throw it. I'm almost there, but I want to get an axel first. So I have never attempted a double mapes yet.

My coaches don't even want me to throw the axel, although I have tried in weeks prior without success. I told one of my coaches the other day I'm going to throw it, against their wishes. They just don't want me to go out and kill myself. They don't think I have enough control yet. They are right.


Larry O and have a great day!

P.S. One of my freestyle coaches performed a little practice the other day. She hit every double in the book. That was quite inspiring. I guess you could call Jackie an Ex-World Competitor. I told her she would kill everybody in California. In the last two competitions I saw no skater who could compete with her. She did comment there were only two World Class Competitors that can throw triples in the womens event. That's what she would have to perfect if she wanted to compete at a World Class level. She's only 23.
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Old August 30th, 2016, 10:22 AM   #33
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Derrick,
Defuse the bomb before it goes off... Check your jump before you land. you can't wait till you land and then check. You have to start it slightly before you land.

I like what Larry said about practicing without rotating. Get the feeling and polish the jump before you actually do the jump.

Rick is right about over rotation. This is too simple of a jump. Don't put so much effort into it.
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Old August 30th, 2016, 10:29 AM   #34
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Larry,
Please don't throw it. It will knock your center of rotation off too easily. Think of this as a waltz jump but instead of being so open as a waltz jump pull it in tight and pull the arms in quick and tight. It really is as easy as that. Work on a salchow and the waltz before the axel. The axel is a salchow starting in the forward direction with an extra half rotation. you wouldn't throw a salchow would you? I hope not. Don't try so hard.




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Me personally I want to get an axel before I attempt the double mapes.

So, when I perform a single, I really want to throw the double, but I have just not got the courage yet to throw it. I'm almost there, but I want to get and axel first.

My coaches don't even want me to throw the axel, although I have tried in weeks prior without success. I told one of my coaches the other day I'm going to throw it, against their wishes.

Probably not a good idea, but it's my life...LOL!

Well, see.

Larry O and have a great day!
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Old August 30th, 2016, 11:20 AM   #35
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what is Jackies last name???
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Old August 31st, 2016, 11:09 AM   #36
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Derrick,
Defuse the bomb before it goes off... Check your jump before you land. you can't wait till you land and then check. You have to start it slightly before you land.

I like what Larry said about practicing without rotating. Get the feeling and polish the jump before you actually do the jump.

Rick is right about over rotation. This is too simple of a jump. Don't put so much effort into it.
OK, I'll do the no roation on skate. And try not to use the gym shoe brake instead of checking off skate before I attempt it further on skate. One thing I like about the jump is the speed of rotation.

No double isn't on my radar, it take me a long , long time to learn stuff, and that is ok. The single and waltz gives the look and feel of a jump in the song without dying.
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Old September 1st, 2016, 06:58 AM   #37
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Smile Rick, thanks for asking.

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what is Jackies last name???
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Jackie's last name is Cross.

I think she's really good. She's still very young. I think shes only 23. She said she hurt herself three times. Once with the ankle, once with the knee and once with a hamstring. She seems very well now. I think she's deciding what to do with her life now. She finished college and is teaching skating at Fountain Valley. She an inspiration to me. We are very lucky to have her.

Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old September 1st, 2016, 11:12 AM   #38
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Jackie's last name is Cross.

I think she's really good. She's still very young. I think shes only 23. She said she hurt herself three times. Once with the ankle, once with the knee and once with a hamstring. She seems very well now. I think she's deciding what to do with her life now. She finished college and is teaching skating at Fountain Valley. She an inspiration to me. We are very lucky to have her.

Sincerely,

Larry O
nice, is that a married name or her original last name. too bad about the injurys, it can put a damper on whats career. i know my son would be injury free all year and 3 times, 1 at nationals and twice a few days before he got injurys, ankles and knee that keep him from performing at nationals at full strength and twice had to withdraw while there. its good at times to have a coach be able to demonstrate proper technique.

ok yes i remember seeing her now, saw a few of videos on youtube. good skater with good doubles and a decent 2 axle for ladys, rotated it even. little trouble with rotating triples though. funny how many skaters can do so well in warmups and practice and its a lot harder when u do a routine in front of judges and fans. i know i seem that 1000 times with my son and others. routines are so much harder then just doing items, even playing horse the items seems so much better lol. have fun
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Old September 1st, 2016, 11:26 AM   #39
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Smile Rick, I really don't know if she is married.

I assume not, but I have no idea. I have only known Jackie for a couple of weeks.

When I started skating at Fountain Valley, I did not see Jackie. I have only seen her for a couple of weeks. Got to know her a little bit and started taking lessons from her. Really because I felt guilty.

Jackie started teaching classes. She works really hard with the staff trying to build up the club. I think the club is at a low point, number wise, so there is a big push to build up the club. Saturday classes seem to be strong and I finally see one dance team developing.

Jackie started teaching a Freestyle class and asked if I would join. I did and since she seems to be at a lot of practices I attend, I felt I should also take freestyle lessons from her.


I had just started taking freestyle lessons from another coach. I was trying for month to hook up with Chris. I really like Chris, but Jackie is an inspiration to me to try harder and see if I can get that axel and maybe the double mapes soon? We'll see. I am continuing to take lesson with Chris also. I really like Chris. She makes skating fun. Chris works with me on the skating part and Jackie is working with me on the jumps and spins.

At any rate I hope Jackie starts competing again. If wouldn't take much to compete, but would take a committment to get back into "World Shape" because she feels she needs the triples to win.

Sincerely,

Larry O and have a great day!
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Old September 1st, 2016, 03:19 PM   #40
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Larry thats good,, i think that is her name and not married , i know who she is watched her on the web over the years and probably saw her as juvenile and up at nationals, last one i went to was 2006.

u take lessons from Chris, is that Chris Baerg??? i know her well and her older skaters from the past. she was a good freestyle skater herself probably when u skated in the beginning if thats her lol. have fun
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