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Roller Dance and Session Skating Forum Discussions about roller dancing, jamskating, rexing, rink session skating, dance circle skating, and similar types of recreational indoor and outdoor skate dancing .

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Old March 3rd, 2008, 04:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MANY_SkatingDave View Post
Hi VThump,



Do you also tie the laces across the tounge to hold it down?

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave

Edit-02: Do you also spit pollish that front toe area and use a stocking to make it like a mirror??

I used to when I was on my Riedells but, in my combat boots it folds down on it's own
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 05:16 PM   #22
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Misconceptions of this sport is actually why thier is such a wall between the styles. just like the R&B side, jam skating has just as many different styles of skaters depending on where they are from. Both R&B and jam skating should be classified the same...the only difference is the preference of styles between each skater.

I can skate in both high top and low top boots. Does this make me an R&B or jam skater? I dont breakdance..so does this make me an R&B skater? IF a black skater with high top boots throws in groundwork, Is he a jam skater?

Preference of style and skaters depends on what area you are from. It has nothing to do with a skater being black or white, R&B or jam skater, or anything else. It all has to do with your OWN style.

History of jam skating and R&B skating has always separated everyone in the sport. Skaters dont want to open thier mind to new styles which holds back what this sport could really be. Instead of fighting of styles, working together on building eachothers styles into one will create a style of skating that has never been seen. I have seen that in the past 10 years of skating events because of new skaters from new areas bringing a new aspect to the sport. Breakdancing, boot spins, toe spins. slides, and every other aspect has only gotten involved the past 3-4 years because of new skaters coming to events.

Imagine if the R&B world and new areas brought thier style of skating. The sport would be bigger and the sponsors would come to help us all. We would be bigger than roller derby, artistic, and speed because of it.

As for the preference of a skate, It is not an artistic boot that the slow roll skaters are using. they are considered just high tops with artistic wheels. Some of them actually use low top boots with smaller wheels. The preference comes with the history of the sport not because of race.

Low cut boots do help with the floorwork aspect of the sport. The high cut helps with the spins and stability. The larger wheels helps with the slides and wheel spins. The smaller wheels help with spins and percise edging. It all depends on your style.

Stop trying to segregate the sport. Learn new moves and try new things. I have kept and open mind throughout the years and seen skating change. Try coming to a national event and see what skating has come to. Bring your style..thats what I always say.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 11:26 PM   #23
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Hey Chuck,

I hear ya'...just keep in mind, we are just having fun.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 11:57 PM   #24
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no..i am not complaing..just kinda giving a point. Anyone that knows me that I do anything for this sport.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 12:11 AM   #25
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I know...I can tell you know your stuff.
I wish I knew where these events were?
I doubt there would be any in my area though.
I have only seen the youtube videos.
I would love to go!
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #26
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www.wsaevents.com

Let me know and maybe I can put an event together in your area!
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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by vthump View Post
I roll, I bounce, and I roll and bounce to the music in my combat boot skates on clay wheels.
I think it depends on where you're at. Out here in So Cal, the adults (white, black, or whatever) all seem to wear custom skates at the adult nights. Such as Stacy Adams, Tennis shoes, Combat boots.... Most of them do what everyone is referring to as the rhythm or shuffle skating. I see a few ppl wearing the speed or jam skate but, they are mostly the older Caucasian crowds it seems.
Oh, and I wear them barely laced through about 4 eyelets and loose

yeah i have 220's which are high-tops not as high as your boots... but they are still hightops...

i jamskate in my 220's it doesnt stop me from doing any of the tricks that you see people on jamskates doing... so it is all personal preference....

at my rink we all wear hightops... its just our san diego style i guess?? haha
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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:53 PM   #28
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yeah i have 220's which are high-tops not as high as your boots... but they are still hightops...

i jamskate in my 220's it doesnt stop me from doing any of the tricks that you see people on jamskates doing... so it is all personal preference....

at my rink we all wear hightops... its just our san diego style i guess?? haha
What kind of skating do they do in SD? A couple of older guys from the two skate clubs came out to Calskate a few times. I know one of the groups are Skate This. He was very good too. I might have to take a road trip out that way. Do they let you jam in the middle?
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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:55 PM   #29
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yeah i have 220's which are high-tops not as high as your boots... but they are still hightops...

i jamskate in my 220's it doesnt stop me from doing any of the tricks that you see people on jamskates doing... so it is all personal preference....

at my rink we all wear hightops... its just our san diego style i guess?? haha
And what are those attachments they wear on their skates too???? I've seen them on the Skate this and the SD old skaters skates.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 06:54 PM   #30
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What kind of skating do they do in SD? A couple of older guys from the two skate clubs came out to Calskate a few times. I know one of the groups are Skate This. He was very good too. I might have to take a road trip out that way. Do they let you jam in the middle?
they do all types of skating out here ... yeah skate this is a big skate group out here they skate down at the beach on sundays if i'm not mistaken. they let you jam in the middle. you should come out here.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 06:56 PM   #31
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And what are those attachments they wear on their skates too???? I've seen them on the Skate this and the SD old skaters skates.


i cant think the name of them but i know what your talking about. i have seen afew of them with it. when i find the name i will let you know about it.
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Old March 11th, 2008, 03:27 AM   #32
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I've met at least 1 person from Skate This but I'm not familiar with what you're describing unless you mean those metal shin guard looking things but I only saw it on one person. Here's their website if you want info:
http://www.skatethis.com/

I think they meet at Mission Beach near that Roller Coaster on Saturdays. It's been about 5 years since I've been down there though so I'm not sure of the exact location but I remember they were near the parking lot.

jt
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Old March 20th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #33
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Hmmm. Well let me throw down the gauntlet too on this issue. We'll see how my post holds up in the fire, that is this forum. The proceeding comments are almost guaranteed to rub someone the wrong way:

Quote:
So is the following understanding correct?

Jamskating: dancing on skates with an emphasis on breakdance moves.

Rhythm skating: dancing on skates with an emphasis on shuffle skate moves.

First let us clarify on the term "Jam skating". What has confused many are the similar terms "Jam Skating" and "Jammin'". "Jam" and "Jam Skating" are the same thing.

"Jamming" or "Jammin" has been around for quite some time and its birth is attributed to Bill Butler. It is not Jam Skating.

"Jam Skating" is a fairly new style that may have pulled some things from Jammin, but has obviously pulled from other areas as well like breakdancing. This happened almost in line with the resurgence of breakdance. Most other styles minimize any other limb touching the ground except their legs. It is a very energetic, upbeat style, the ballad has little to no place in the jam song queue. You get songs like "Joystick", "Music Makes You Lose Control". It's late 70's, 80's music. The choice of boot is partly due to tradition. Most people who want to do Jam skating buy a low top shoe because that's what the other jam skaters have. As with most traditions, there is a reason behind the common practice. The low top shoe is used for extra flexibility in the ankle moves like "iceberg" and some breakdance maneuvers. The style appears to have come out of the south because that is where the strongest centers for jam skating were. The low top shoe has been around since the beginning, right along with the boot. You can see it used even in the 50's, but it was a dress shoe that was used. The term "Jam skating" temporarily came to almost encompass any skating that was not traditional figures.


This probably had some backlash because many people who were around well before jam skating said "that's not what I do". Understandably, there is a noticeable difference between a Jam skater and a local rhythm stylist. So now there's a term for grouping the style of roller disco and the local styles that developed primarily in the black community. This general term is "Rhythm skating". "Rhythm skating" is like saying "Mexican music". There are subdivisions within that term. Each region of the country has it's own styles - and yes it was primarily black people who were responsible for the evolution of these local dance styles. JB style, Detroit slide, Ohio bounce are all subdivisions, which in turn may have their own subdivisions. In the old days, people just learned moves and no one named much of anything. It's still a problem today. "Rhythm skating" is what I once understood as "freestyle", which has all but vanished. Freestyle in the contemporary sense is not to be confused with traditional freestyle figure skating. Freestyle or freestylin' was freedom of style, it was self expression - anything goes.

Roller Disco/Roller Boogie/Roller Dance is probably the beginning of all the local styles we group under "Rhythm Skating" today. It heavily borrows from figure skating. It started in the Northeast and branched out from there. It seems one branch went south and another went to the Midwest and later to the west. Northeastern US area probably has the oldest dance styles with Midwest being next. The west was probably the next to develop with the south developing soon after. It is probably safe to conclude that the areas that didn't have residual segregation were the areas that were fertile for fast development of a particular style. That's why a drastic change is noticeable below the Mason-Dixon line as opposed to just looking east and west. Of course, tracing the evolution is never that neat and simple. Even when Bill Butler was doing his thing in New York there were already skaters in Detroit (and likely other Midwest cities) doing dance moves. As time moves on, it becomes harder to determine what came before because transplant skaters contribute to the evolution of a region. That's why Atlanta is so different now. Then only the old people can tell you what happened before.

Yes, the high top art boot is quite prevalent in the black community, more so in the north than the south. You may also note that the tradition of men wearing black and women wearing white boots is all but completely broken amongst African Americans (or rather Rhythm skaters). Both sexes wear black.(Now don't ask me to answer that one. I have my theories though.) I've seen plenty of black folks on low tops in the south. However, above the Mason-Dixon line the trend is almost exclusively high tops. Even so, it is not uncommon for a "brownie" to buy a low top, only to realize everyone else is on high tops and immediately switch. It's tradition. Again, these are older regions and the styles that came about took advantage of that type of skate. For example, there is a move where a skater does the broken ankle on the right then left leg, but since it is a boot it creates the illusion that the skater is growing or shrinking in size. Besides that, the broken ankle looks like the ankle is actually broken. This can be done on a low top skate, but the illusion isn't quite there. It just seems to look like a bent ankle, even with low pants. There's the jb style which involves a low lunge pose, but the back leg toe often never touches the ground. If the boot is laced too tight you tend to scuff your stopper on the ground and the foot can't come off the boot to get the deep bend. If the boot is too loose, your foot falls out of the boot. You need something that is loose, but still has something more to hold the heel. So the heel slips up and down the neck of the boot. If the ankle support were cut off you would have less room for heel play. The boot is used for jumps because of this same ankle support. There's also a fashion that comes into play. I mean, having a tongue wrap on your low tops would look pretty strange.


Shuffling can mean the back-and-forth/in-and-out switching of feet during a stroke. In this sense, shuffle skating is something all dance skaters do. The California rexing teams seemed to be the best at it, but you can see it in the Midwestern styles and northeastern styles. The shuffle is like a hand waxing with feet in the west, in the Midwest it's a big long motion and in the Northeast it's a quicker motion with the feet often coming together instead of one in front and one in back.

It really is no surprise to me that you have different skate traditions and styles based on race. This is a remnant of segregated times. It's really no different than the black swing vs. white swing or Broadway style tap versus "hoofing". Same overall goals, but slightly different emphasis and beat due to an African heritage.

All that said, I've had the privilege of traveling over 60 rinks and I can tell you that traveling helps answer these types of questions. You don't have to believe me. It's amazing how many experienced skaters never travel. The more regions you sample, the better.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 01:23 PM   #34
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Thanks, diagetus, for your insightful and well written post. I enjoyed reading it.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 01:50 PM   #35
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hmmm........most informative......well said!
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Old March 30th, 2008, 09:52 PM   #36
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I have noticed that styles in an area change over time as well.

Here in the Hoosier Heartland (At least locally for me) in the late 80's to mid 90's Low cut speed boots with racing plates and 62mm x 40mm Speed wheels were pretty much the standard across the board, and it was thus for about 90% of the population (Af. American or Caucasian).

Recently, there has been more of a shift to differing variotions on skating styles and setups. Locally, I see a LOT of Speed boots with artistic plates and wheels, and even a few Art/Rythmn boots with speed plates and 62x40 speed wheels on them, no joke!

I've seen some pretty funk setups worn by many different people of many differing races and creeds.

I have also seen a bit of almalgamtion in styles, osmosing into a new form. There is a group of younger fellows here that skate art plates and art wheels on speed boots and do a very interesting mix of art/jam/rythmn skating that impresses me very much.

This lends itself to diagetus's post of making a new breed of skating styles that encompass a little of everything. More people should give other setups a try and learn from those that are willing to raise the bar. Those that are raising the bar and pushing the curve in a new direction usually don't realize they are until everyone else seems to be following the mode.

This is a really exciting time for me to have gotten back into the sport with so much gusto recently. I have noticed that I am learning things from kids 20 years younger than me that blow me away, and at the same they are blown away, and asking about some of the "Old School" moves that are still floating around in my reprotoire.

I think this lends itself to the discussion at hand that we all can learn something from everyone else's style, and adapt it to our own, and growing the sport in a new direction that is looming on the horizon. With this mindset, skate companies may take notice of these trends and actually start producing the qualitiy and caliber of equipment for quad skaters that they used to in the good old days, and evolve the industry into something GREAT again.

We all have to remember that skating isn't about race and color, but about how different people strap their wheels on and move those feet!
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Old March 31st, 2008, 05:49 AM   #37
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Hi OldSchool,

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolRinkRat View Post
Here in the Hoosier Heartland (At least locally for me) in the late 80's to mid 90's Low cut speed boots with racing plates and 62mm x 40mm Speed wheels were pretty much the standard across the board, and it was thus for about 90% of the population (Af. American or Caucasian).

I have also seen a bit of almalgamtion in styles, osmosing into a new form. There is a group of younger fellows here that skate art plates and art wheels on speed boots and do a very interesting mix of art/jam/rythmn skating that impresses me very much.

This is a really exciting time for me to have gotten back into the sport with so much gusto recently. I have noticed that I am learning things from kids 20 years younger than me that blow me away, and at the same they are blown away, and asking about some of the "Old School" moves that are still floating around in my reprotoire.

I think this lends itself to the discussion at hand that we all can learn something from everyone else's style, and adapt it to our own, and growing the sport in a new direction that is looming on the horizon. With this mindset, skate companies may take notice of these trends and actually start producing the qualitiy and caliber of equipment for quad skaters that they used to in the good old days, and evolve the industry into something GREAT again.

We all have to remember that skating isn't about race and color, but about how different people strap their wheels on and move those feet!
I started clipping your note yet gave up since you wrote so well about your local/regional experience.

From where you sit in the USA and it's history, you are right on, yet it is different for me and my place in the USA.

I have great skating friends and skaters originating from all places in our USA and globe and I would miss each one that has a desire and drive to be a great skater.

Funny, yet when you (or at least me) skate we see talented skaters and all else doesn't really matter.

As for the 20 yr olds or 10 yrs olds they are fun and they will displace us if we have done a GOOD job.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 09:47 PM   #38
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Quote:
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...First let us clarify on the term "Jam skating". What has confused many are the similar terms "Jam Skating" and "Jammin'". "Jam" and "Jam Skating" are the same thing.

"Jamming" or "Jammin" has been around for quite some time and its birth is attributed to Bill Butler. It is not Jam Skating......
Now for fun lets make it even more confusing by throwing Derby Jammers into the mix.
Being a "Jammer" in Derby has absolutly nothing to do with "Jam Skating", "Jammin'", or "Jamming".

Well now that I think about it... maybe some of those moves could be usefull to a Derby Jammer!
Aight... Jam On!
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Old April 5th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Now for fun lets make it even more confusing by throwing Derby Jammers into the mix.
Being a "Jammer" in Derby has absolutly nothing to do with "Jam Skating", "Jammin'", or "Jamming".

Well now that I think about it... maybe some of those moves could be usefull to a Derby Jammer!
Aight... Jam On!

Lol. Let's pile more on the plate.

- The term "Jamz" (spelled with a z instead of s) may not have anything to do with Jam skating, but rather a big sk8 party often for Rhythm stylists. As far as I've seen, it always seems to be for Rhythm skaters (probably refering back to Jammin'), but could also be for Jam skaters (refering to Jam skating of course). I don't know. My head is spinning. Lol.
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Old April 5th, 2008, 10:19 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleehopper View Post
Now for fun lets make it even more confusing by throwing Derby Jammers into the mix.
Being a "Jammer" in Derby has absolutly nothing to do with "Jam Skating", "Jammin'", or "Jamming".

Well now that I think about it... maybe some of those moves could be usefull to a Derby Jammer!
Aight... Jam On!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diagetus View Post
Lol. Let's pile more on the plate.

- The term "Jamz" (spelled with a z instead of s) may not have anything to do with Jam skating, but rather a big sk8 party often for Rhythm stylists. As far as I've seen, it always seems to be for Rhythm skaters (probably refering back to Jammin'), but could also be for Jam skaters (refering to Jam skating of course). I don't know. My head is spinning. Lol.
All of this leads to the summation that skating is a melting pot, and we all make a mighty mean stew!
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